Berlin, N.H., Home Invasion Turns Deadly

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Detectives from the New Hampshire State Police major crimes unit were still on scene at 616 Third Avenue in Berlin 18 hours after a fatal shooting.

Residents say it's a normally quiet neighborhood, but Wednesday night police say three men forced their way into an apartment and attacked a man and woman inside. At least two of the robbers had handguns and were allegedly threatening the couple. At some point the male resident got hold of his own handgun and got into a scuffle with the intruders. Shots were fired and one of the robbers, Nathan Stringfield, 23, of Berlin, was hit and died at the scene.

Next-door neighbor Joe Gauthier was doing his dishes when the gunfight broke out.

"I'd just shut the water off and I heard a gunshot so I ran to the side window which faces that building and looked out and saw a man on the ground there," Gauthier said. "He was just lying there and the girl was screaming."

Officials say the woman was the girlfriend of the man who lives in the apartment. She was inside when the armed intruders forced their way in.


http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=11577171

[graywarrior]

1. Not surprised.

They built one prison and are building another. The town is piss poor, no jobs with the mill closed. The prisons are drawing gangs and Berlin has always had a serious drug problem. This is gang/drug related, I'm sure.

[Walk away]

2. Tenafly N.J., No one invades gunless home for 50 years.

Fletcher family lives in their home for 50 years and never own a gun. No one ever bothers them and they don't bother anyone else. The kids all graduate from college, get good jobs and start gunless families of their own. No one ever bothers them either.

[armueller2001]

3. What a great story.

I'm sure there's many stories just like it of families who choose to not prepare for emergencies and turn out OK as well. My family, for instance, didn't have a carbon monoxide detector until I was around 16 years old. Lucky for us, we never needed one!

[Walk away]

4. Are you seriously likening a carbon monoxide detector to a gun?

That is very sad. Living in that kind of fear takes a toll on you and I can't imagine growing up with parents who feel the need for deadly force. It's much more likely that you will hurt or kill a loved one or a family member than protect yourself from an assailant.

Fire detectors and CM detectors save lives. That's a poor analogy but I'm not surprised.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. There is no study that shows legal gun owners are more likely to kill or hurt a loved one.

[TPaine7]

7. Are you seriously implying that guns don't save lives?

And are you further using that false and unstated premise to criticize an analogy making a valid point that you don't like?

And are you further implying that having a gun indicates fear of home invasions whereas having a fire detector doesn't indicate fear of fire and having a carbon monoxide detector doesn't indicate fear of carbon monoxide poisoning?

You make a very serious slur against another DUer's character here:

It's much more likely that you will hurt or kill a loved one or a family member than protect yourself from an assailant.

I doubt you are aware of it, but this is tantamount to stating that the person addressed is a long-term criminal and a felon or has serious mental health issues. There is a lot of very poor, amateurish pseudo-criminological "research" being performed by doctors skilled in epidemiology--the study of diseases and how they spread. (That's similar to physics research being done by CPAs.) Among them is a thoroughly debunked body of work by a "scientist" purporting to show what you say above.

Here I quote real criminologists (not an MD working far outside his area of expertise):

Ordinary People

Another scientific fact: ordinary people rarely murder. Very rarely.

Local and national studies dating to the 1890s show that in almost every case murderers
are aberrants exhibiting life histories of violence and crime, psychopathology, substance
abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. Looking only to prior crime records, roughly 90
percent of adult murders had adult records, with an average adult criminal career of six
or more years, including four major adult felonies.{37}

We are often told that most murder victims know their assailants. We are supposed to infer that normal,
law-abiding people kill their friends and loved ones because a sudden rage—accompanied by the
availability of a gun—is too severe a temptation. This may be true of gang members, drug dealers, and
armed robbers, but it is very rare among normal people. And we are never told the rest of the story—
national data on acquaintance gun murders in homes show that “the most common victim offender
relationship” was “where both parties knew each other because of prior illegal transactions.”{38}

The most rational response is to ban felons, the insane and habitual drug abusers from possessing guns.
Harsh general restrictions are inefficient. A National Institute of Justice funded study concluded that “there
is no evidence anywhere to suggest that reducing the availability of firearms in general likewise reduces
their availability to persons with criminal intent. . . .”{39}

Note: In order to see the sources and read the footnotes, go to www.obamaonsecond.com and search for the section entitled "Ordinary People."

[cognoscere]

8. It has nothing to do with fear.

Find a dictionary and look up the word prepared and consider this:
It's better to have a gun and not need it than to not have one and need it. Too much of a cliche? Okay, substitute spare tire, car insurance, fire extinguisher,epi pen, glucose tablets, etc. It's a matter of being prepared for the worse/worst case based on certain conditions that are known ahead of time.

Personally, I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

[Travis_0004]

9. I must really live in fear then

I'm so scared about crimes that I have a gun in my house.

I'm also scared of power outages, so I keep a flashlight.

I'm scared of fires, so I keep a fire extinguisher.

I'm also scared of flat tires, so I keep and extra tire, and the tools to change it in my car.

Am I living in fear, or do I believe in being prepared?

Since you don't want to go around living in fear, then I advise you to throw away your smoke detectors, and get rid of your spare tire. You will save electricity and gas, and will no longer have to go to sleep at night worrying about bad things. You should also drop your auto insurance. It seems some people are so afraid of auto accidents, they actually pay money twice a year to cover the loss if there is an accident. I guess it makes sense to some fear monger like me, but I doubt it makes sense to you.

There are very very few people on this board, who would ever want to take somebody else's life. I would hope to go my entire life without ever using a gun in self defense. Unfortunately, there are people who may not feel the same way about me, and if they break into my house and threaten me and my family, I will protect my family. Even in that situation, you do not shoot to kill. You shoot to stop the threat. Once the threat is stopped, I'll stop shooting. If its safe, I'll even render first aid, since I'm so afraid of bad things, I have a first aid kit, and the EMT training to use it.

[spin]

10. Damn good post. (n/t)

[Walk away]

12. If you feel you and your kids need guns to be safe then...yes..

you live in fear.

Instruments used to detect unsafe conditions have nothing to do with weapons. Desperately trying to draw a comparison only makes your argument seem foolish to the many millions of people who do not like or own guns.

[PavePusher]

13. Uh..., did you actually READ the O.P.?

They were being attacked! Should they have just let the intruders beat them to death?

What is your solution? Bring it.

[Walk away]

14. How about spending more time building a safer neighborhood...

instead of using your fun family time teaching your kids about guns. But this is all pointless. In your mind it's guns that make a safe neighborhood so we are really living in a different world and most likely a different neighborhood too.

[eqfan592]

16. I don't think gun owners think owning a gun is a sure bet to safety.

Does it give you a greater ability to defend your self, family and property? Yes. Can this dissuade somebody who knows the neighborhood is well armed from attempting a home invasion there? Maybe.

But most of us understand that it's not guns that will inherently reduce crime. It's combating poverty, poor education, etc., that are the key factors. And we do work on these. In fact, dealing with people like you, who expend our political capital on anti-gun programs with little to no chance of actually helping the crime problem is part of making our neighborhoods safer, because we can then spend that political capital to combat the real issues.

But even in the safest of neighborhoods, you still should be prepared to deal with the eventuality that you may eventually have to defend your self and your home. It's just good sense. Even if I lived in a 99.999% fire resistant home, I'd still keep a fire extinguisher around. It's the exact same thing.

No, this is much less about making anyplace safer and much more about your need to blame an object for the ills of society.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Teaching kids about gun safety would be part of building a safer neighborhood.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. Like certain neighborhoods in Newark, Camden, and Atlantic City?

I mean, they must be safer than Berlin, New Hampshire because the gun laws are so much stricter in NJ.

It's just unpossible that they are actually less safe, amirite?

[PavePusher]

26. Nice tap dance past the question.

What would you have people do when they are actually attacked?

Direct answer, please.

[eqfan592]

17. You ignore fire extinguishers.

Fire extinguishers are not instruments to detect an unsafe condition, but rather to aid in combating it. A firearm can't detect an unsafe condition, but it can help to combat it.

Do you feel somebody who keeps a fire extinguisher in the home has an unnatural fear of fire?

[oneshooter]

18. Of course New Jersey has no crime

Due mainly to it's harsh confinement of the Second Amendment!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. Self-delete n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. People in New Hampshire *are* safer than people in New Jersey.

The odd antecdote notwithstanding.

Even with far tougher gun laws and far fewer gun owners, New Jersey still has higher violent crime and murder rates than New Hampshire.

Clean up your own neighborhood before presuming to lecture about others you know little about.

[eqfan592]

15. Well said!!! (nt)

[taurus145]

11. Guns also save lives

Anecdotal to be sure, but I saved my wife, kid, and me with one.

[SteveM]

19. "Living in that kind of fear takes a toll on you..." Says who?...

You have made an assertion that owning a gun for self-protection takes "a toll on you." What do you mean? How is that "toll" characterized and measured? Since you made the assertion, it is incumbent on you to support it. FYI, I (and most gun-owners I know) sleep well at night, and carry on rather normal lives.

You further state: "...I can't imagine growing up with parents who feel the need for deadly force." Actually, most gun-owners keep arms for self-protection; their lives are not characterized by a "need for" deadly force. If you can't imagine growing up with parents who keep firearms for self-protection, why don't you ask folks here -- or anywhere -- so you don't have to imagine.

And you state that "...you will hurt or kill a loved one or family member than protect yourself from an assailant." Again, you made the assertion, now back it up. Please be aware that this kind of speculation has been studied. Can you find the results?

Your final statements will be handled by others, shortly. And I think you know it will NOT be a surprise.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. Anytown, USA No one invades gun filled home for 50 years.

Fletcher family lives in their home for 50 years and own many guns for all 50. No one ever bothers them and they don't bother anyone else. The kids all learn about how to use guns safely at a very young age, they all graduate from college, get good jobs and start families of their own and safely own guns the rest of their lives. No one ever bothers them either.

[slackmaster]

24. Young Mr. Stringfield chose his career and his victims poorly

Tragic waste of life.

[Chemisse]

25. You should have put this in the NH forum

There is never any discussion in there. :(