New York Administration Announce Tougher Penalties on Toy Gun Sales

[Howzit]

http://council.nyc.gov/html/releases/toy_guns_12_8_09.shtml

“Gun violence is plaguing the Bedford-Stuyvesant and Crown Heights neighborhoods that I represent, as well as communities across the city and country,” said Council Member Al Vann, prime sponsor of the bill. “When I introduced this legislation, my intentions were also to stem the glorification of guns within our communities, and push the businesses that we patronize to be responsible members of our neighborhoods. I will continue working to address gun violence and its underlying issues. In light of the senseless shooting that occurred in my district Sunday night, it is apparent that we must work more diligently to stem the violence that is afflicting our neighborhoods.”

"Speaker Christine C Quinn, together with Council Member Al Vann, today announced legislation that would increase penalties for selling a toy gun by 500 percent. The legislation would also enhance the Department of Consumer Affairs’ enforcement ability and allow the agency to shut stores that are repeat offenders of the law. Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) Commissioner Jonathan Mintz and Criminal Justice Coordinator John Feinblatt joined the Speaker and Council Members at the announcement. The officials also announced a new citywide public awareness campaign about the dangers of toy guns that look real and real guns that look like toys."

"The City Council’s Consumer Affairs Committee will hold a hearing on the legislation this afternoon. The proposed bill would increase the fine for a first violation from $1,000 to up to $5,000. It would also increase the fines for subsequent violations within a two year period from $3,000 to up to $8,000. Finally, it would also permit DCA to seal, for up to five days, the premises of a store found guilty of three or more violations within a two year period."



I hope they also ban movies, TV channels and music that glorify violence.

[Deep13]

1. You've got to be shitting me.

[jeepnstein]

6. Government "leaders" such as this...

are exactly why violence is a problem in urban areas. They simply refuse to look at the problem because it's too difficult for them to tackle. Most of the young people dying on the streets in the U.S. are doing so because they are engaging in gang activity of some form or another. It's a plague on certain segments of our society and we choose to turn a blind eye to it.

[TPaine7]

8. Personally I think these kids get the distinct message that

society doesn't give a damn about them, whether they live or die, whether they get shot walking home from school. They ask the all too logical question: "If society doesn't give a damn about me, why should I give a damn about society?"

Treating gangs as entities at war with America would be a humane and liberal approach IMO. I feel certain that when gangs start having more impact in suburbs and wealthier enclaves they will be taken much more seriously.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. LOL... all aboard the fail train! n/t

[bluestateguy]

3. Please tell me this is a joke

nt

[struggle4progress]

22. ... Realistic toy guns have been prohibited in New York State for the past fifteen years ...

2003 > November 25th
MONROE COUNTY RETAILER RECALLS TOY GUNS
Spitzer's Office Continues Effort to Get Illegal Toy Guns Off Stores Shelves
Attorney General Spitzer today announced a settlement with a Monroe County retailer that will provide refunds for consumers who purchased toy guns lacking safety markings required by state law ... http://www.oag.state.ny.us/media_center/2003/nov/nov25b_03.html

[slackmaster]

4. I'll let veteran actor Patrick Stewart express my reaction, since he does this so well

[eqfan592]

5. O....M.....F.....G

[Ozymanithrax]

7. So they are denying children their second amendment rights...

Hell, that is what parents are supposed to do.

Idiots. Why don't they banish light sabers, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Sai's?

[pipoman]

9. This has to be a hidden hyperlink to The Onion

because we've all heard, ad nauseam, 'there is no movement to ban guns, just movement to impose reasonable controls on them'....just another proposal for reasonable control...nothing to see here.

[frebrd]

10. I'm so glad I grew up when I did........

as a kid in the early forties I had a beautiful set of shiny chrome colored six-shooter cap-guns (very realistic) complete with gunbelt and twin holsters. My supply of caps was rationed, but they still could hardly get me out of them to go to bed at night!

:)

[struggle4progress]

11. Recent toy gun news:

Robber's death is senseless but nearly inevitable
* Posted December 9, 2009 at midnight
Monday afternoon's fatal shooting of a bank-robbery suspect by Redding police officers is a waste of a young man's life. It's all the more senseless given the revelation that the suspect, identified as a 20-year-old from Los Gatos, was armed with nothing more dangerous than a BB gun. But it would be fatuous to second-guess officers' split-second decision to open fire. The toy gun, a replica 9 mm, was realistic enough to use in holding up a bank. The whole point was for the suspect to fool others into thinking he was holding a dangerous firearm ... http://www.redding.com/news/2009/dec/09/robbers-death-is-senseless-but-nearly-inevitable/

West Texas tot, 2, shoots 16-year-old cousin
© 2009 The Associated Press
Dec. 2, 2009, 9:41PM
... Garcia says detectives are trying to establish to whom the gun belongs and why it was within the tot's reach. But the spokesman says a toy gun was sitting beneath a Christmas tree and that the toddler "had obviously been playing with the toy gun that looks like a real gun." He added, "It's tough for a 2-year-old to distinguish the difference" ... http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6750213.html

Caldwell man shot by police was wielding toy gun, family says
Police are not commenting on the allegations. Two recent police shootings, ruled justified, involved suspects with a soldering gun and a piece of glass.
BY KRISTIN RODINE [e-mail] - Idaho Statesman
Copyright: © 2009 Idaho Statesman
Published: 12/05/09
David Valdez Banda was killed by Caldwell police Wednesday evening after he emerged from a house with a gun, refused repeated commands to drop it and made an aggressive move, police said. Banda's family members have said the gun he carried was fake and that he apparently wanted officers to shoot him ... http://www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/story/997767.html

Teen who died after being shot 4 times identified
By Amelia Robinson, Staff Writer Updated 11:51 PM Sunday, November 22, 2009
DAYTON — A 19-year-old man who was shot four times Saturday night died early Sunday morning, Nov. 22, according to the Montgomery County Coroner’s Office ... Scroggins had had several run ins with police, including an armed robbery with a toy gun in 2007 and an arrest for public indecency in August ... http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime/teen-who-died-after-being-shot-4-times-identified-415367.html

Jury finds dealer guilty on manslaughter charges
MILLARD K. IVES
Staff Writer
TAVARES -- A drug dealer charged with murder -- accused of shooting two men in the back after they robbed him -- left the Lake County courthouse Friday in handcuffs ... According to testimony and arguments, Shervington and Gordon went to Spitaliere's Greater Hills subdivision home to buy a quarter pound of marijuana. But the two men instead pulled out a toy gun and robbed Spitaliere of drugs as well as money and jewelry before running out of the house. Spitaliere pulled out a real gun from underneath a futon ... http://www.dailycommercial.com/localnews/story/112109dope

Officers Not Immune in Shooting Death of Boy
By TIM HULL
(CN) - The 8th Circuit denied qualified immunity to two Arkansas police officers who shot and killed a 12-year-old boy after mistaking his toy gun for the real thing. West Memphis Police officers Erik Sammis and Jimmy Evans were part of a late-night stake-out team in June 2007, acting on a tip that two or three black males planned to rob a convenience store. Around 10 p.m., the officers saw 12-year-old DeAunta Farrow and 14-year-old Unseld Nance approaching a nearby apartment complex ... The officers said they got out of the car, weapons drawn, yelled "police" and ordered the boys to get on the ground. Nance immediately complied, but Farrow remained standing, holding what appeared to be a gun. Sammis then shouted, "No!" before firing twice at the boys. Two bullets hit Farrow and he was pronounced dead at the scene. The gun was a toy ... http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/13/Officers_Not_Immune_in_Shooting_Death_of_Boy.htm

[slackmaster]

13. Most of those are more proof that gun safety education should be taught in public schools

The muzzle control rule for a toy gun is the same as the rule for a real gun - Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

A decent gun safety class would include a lesson on why it's a bad idea to point anything that even remotely resembles a gun at a person who might be armed with a gun, e.g. a cop.

A 2-year-old being able to get ahold of a real gun is a complete failure on the part of the owner of the weapon to secure it, and that is inexcusable.

[eqfan592]

14. So I'm guessing you think toy guns should be banned?

Because banning things is the only reasonable solution to any of the worlds problems, right? Or is this your usual, spineless sort of posting where you patently refuse to actually take a stand on an issue?

[struggle4progress]

17. Facts are more interesting than opinions. I provided some recent news stories showing:

toy guns can be used in felonies; toy guns can play a role in accidental police shootings of children and in "suicide by cop"; and exposure to toy guns may lead to unfortunate confusion in young children who subsequently find real guns available

[Katya Mullethov]

18. Wait till you get a load of the exploding chewing gum

Lack of proper training leads to confusion in the mind of children . Children whose parents truly believe they are " better than that " .

[struggle4progress]

43. My comments on that BS story are here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7195423&mesg_id=7199428

[Katya Mullethov]

44. So a rush to legislate it away is a bit rash ?

More on such nitwittery in just a moment .

[slackmaster]

19. The obvious solution is to EDUCATE children so they understand what a weapon is

Also the difference between a weapon and a toy, and some empathy skills so they start to think about how other people might interpret or misinterpret their actions.

For a criminal who uses a simulated firearm to commit a crime and gets shot, I have no sympathy. A simulated firearm need not be a toy gun. The classic from prison movies is a bar of soap carved into a gun-like shape, then colored with shoe polish. A piece of wood or something crafted from clay would work just fine.

[eqfan592]

20. Facts by themselves are meaningless...

...unless you intend to provide context, and in this venue the context would be what YOU think would be the best solution to deal with these problems? I tend to agree with those that think better education about firearms is the key (at least when it comes to children not knowing the difference), but my gut tells me that you wouldn't really like that at all. It's does too much to save lives and not enough to demonize guns for your taste if my hunch is correct.

[PavePusher]

21. Nothing wrong with toy guns in and of themselves...

Much wrong with using them improperly, or poor training/supervision of children.

But hey, whatever's politically expedient this week...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. Meaningless anecdotes.

[slackmaster]

40. At least they've disciplined themselves to keep the "toy gun" spam confined to one thread

It is pretty ridiculous.

[Katya Mullethov]

45. Are the penalties the same for using a real gun VS a replica ?

Part of the demented thought process behind banning toy guns is that criminals are commiting crimes using fake or toy guns that look real . I would rather have criminals employing fake weapons in crimes and having ZERO chance of someone being hurt or killed by said fake weapon during the crime, than having them run around with real weapons and shooting and killing people .

[rrneck]

12. Good luck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dillinger
The police boasted to area newspapers that the jail was escape-proof and posted extra guards to make sure. Dillinger was able to secretly carve a wooden gun in his cell. Using it, he was able to trick a guard into opening his cell. He then took two men hostage, rounded up all the guards in the jail, locked them in his cell, and fled.

[beevul]

15. Because a single facepalm isn't enough...

But even that doesn't quite cover it.


Because of the magnitude of this, ther is only one facepalm that might be apropriate enough...

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[DonP]

16. To reduce DUIs in NYC Hot Wheels have also been banned

That makes about as much sense.

Because of violence from guns we are increasing the fines for selling toys that look like guns.

Because of DUIs we are banning the sale of Hot Wheels and other toy cars that look like they will go fast.

Are these people really elected to office or did they get their seat out of a Cracker Jack box?

[struggle4progress]

23. Spitzer: Drop That Gun (2004)

December 20, 2004

Two wholesalers have agreed to stop distributing toy guns that violate New York State law. New York Attorney General Elliott Spitzer says the agreements are part of an effort to keep unsafe toys off the shelves of New York stores.

"Realistic-looking toy guns pose a threat to the law enforcement community and to the general public," Spitzer said. "My office's agreements with these two wholesalers will help keep unsafe toys off the shelves of scores of retail stores across the state and possibly prevent tragic incidents."

The two New York City-based wholesalers - Rubie's Costumes Company, Inc. and Franco American Novelty Co., Inc. which distribute costumes and accessories, including toy guns, to approximately 160 retailers throughout the state - entered into settlement agreements with Spitzer's office and agreed to pay civil penalties and costs of $27,000 and $10,000 respectively.

It is estimated that since early 2001 Rubie's and Franco American have distributed over 12,000 toy guns in violation of state law to retailers ...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/ny_toy_guns.html

[slackmaster]

27. You know Elliott Spitzer is someone we can trust

[struggle4progress]

28. After Shooting by Police, Critics Say Illegal Toy Guns Are Still Too Easy to Get (1998)

By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: Wednesday, August 26, 1998

The deadly looking water gun that fooled police officers and led them to shoot and critically injure a 16-year-old boy in Brooklyn on Sunday night was another reminder of what critics said yesterday has been an all-too-common problem: realistic toy guns that, although they are banned by law, are still too easy for children to get.

The water gun that the youth, Michael Jones, was holding at 2:40 A.M. Sunday when he was shot six times in the legs by two officers answering a call about a gunman on a bicycle was a very good facsimile of a Tec-9 machine pistol, the police said. Officials at the toymaker that made the gun, the Larami Corporation, said that the line was discontinued 15 years ago in an effort to prevent such incidents ...

Sgt. Eric Adams, a New York City police officer who is one of the founders of an association of black police and corrections officers called 100 Black Men in Law Enforcement Who Care, said that he went out after the shooting on Sunday and bought five realistic toy guns in five different stores in Brooklyn.

''The city needs to go into these stores, pull these guns off the shelves and prosecute the individuals responsible for selling them,'' Sergeant Adams said as he pointed to his cache of real-looking play weapons, which included toys that looked like a 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol, a .38-caliber revolver, an Uzi machine gun, a silver semiautomatic pistol and a Mauser-style pistol with a fake wooden handle ...

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/26/nyregion/after-shooting-by-police-critics-say-illegal-toy-guns-are-still-too-easy-to-get.html

[eqfan592]

31. 16 year old hanging out outside at 2:40AM with no parental supervision?

I know, the TOY is the problem!

[PavePusher]

35. Yawn.

Stupid parents letting stupid kids do stupid stuff.

Teh Stooopyd, it beernz.

:boring:

[eqfan592]

36. lol

[slackmaster]

39. I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at a story that begins with "The deadly looking water gun..."

It's unfortunate that the kid was not properly educated about how to safely handle weapons.

Banning toy guns and water pistols is not going to fix this particular problem, because the real problem is between the ears of young people.

...''The city needs to go into these stores, pull these guns off the shelves...

From one perspective it's proper to say that "toy guns" are a subset of the thing known as "guns", but the way the word "guns" is used in the sentence partly quoted above is hysterical (I mean that both in the sense of panic-stricken and humorous).

[struggle4progress]

29. Police Lieutenant Urges Tighter Toy-Gun Law (2000)

Published: Tuesday, April 4, 2000

Standing near the spot where police officers shot two teenagers who tried to rob them with realistic-looking toy pistols, Lt. Eric Adams, a founder of 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care, called on the City Council yesterday to strengthen restrictions on the sale of toy guns.

Lieutenant Adams said that toy guns were being sold in violation of a city law passed last year that required them to be either transparent or brightly colored. He called for the law to be more strictly enforced and for a new law regulating the shape, as well as the color, of toy guns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/04/nyregion/metro-news-briefs-new-york-police-lieutenant-urges-tighter-toy-gun-law.html

[jeepnstein]

37. "police officers shot two teenagers who tried to rob them"

There's your problem right there. Think about it. It wasn't so much the possession of the toy that was the problem as it was the fact they were trying to rob a cop. What were they thinking?

[slackmaster]

41. I don't understand how someone could see that incident as a sign of a "toy gun" problem

What about the mentality of kids who think it would be OK to rob anyone, much less police officers?

:crazy:

It's almost as if those in authority have completely given up on the idea of teaching children morality and proper behavior. So we have politicians thrashing around impotently, trying to give the impression that they "care" and are "doing something" about it.

[struggle4progress]

24. CVS, Kmart Fined for Violating N.Y. Toy Gun Rules (2005)

Newsday
Sunday, April 3, 2005; Page A08

NEW YORK -- Two major retail chains were fined a total of $130,000 for violating New York City's law banning the sale of dark-colored toy guns.

The city's Department of Consumer Affairs said CVS was fined $100,000 and Kmart $30,000.

CVS was found to have more than 400 of the guns in stock in city stores; Kmart had nearly 50. Guns found at CVS, which included a toy labeled "Official Military Play Equipment," manufactured by Manley Toy Quest, were described as dark green, brown and black camouflage. The city agency found the camouflage green "Fun Zone Delta Force Military Action Set" at Kmart.

In a statement, CVS said it has "cooperated fully with the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs in the investigation of this matter and has discontinued the sale of nonconforming toys" ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22025-2005Apr2.html

[Katya Mullethov]

30. Some of my best friends shoot colored guns

[struggle4progress]

25. NY warns stores against selling realistic toy guns (Jul 2009)

July 28, 2009 5:32 PM
NY warns stores against selling realistic toy guns
Attorney General Andrew Cuomo sent letters to more than 100 retailers, ordering them to stop flouting a state law that requires all toy guns be unmistakable from real guns.

(AP) - Despite years of enforcement stings, many New York stores still aren't complying with state rules banning the sale of toy guns that could be confused with the real thing, state officials said Tuesday.

Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said his office has sent letters to more than 100 retailers ordering them to halt sales of look-a-likes that violate the ban.

State law requires toy guns to either be made from materials that couldn't possibly be confused with an actual weapon, or carry colorful markings including a big orange stripe ...

Some of the stores that got letters included the discount retailers Dollar General, Big Lots and Dollar Tree and the hunting, camping and fishing supply store Gander Mountain ...

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090728/FREE/907289963

[struggle4progress]

26. New York City takes aim at illegal sales of realistic-looking toy guns (dec 2009)

BY Frank Lombardi
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU
Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 4:00 AM

City officials are launching an ad campaign as part of a crackdown on illegal sales of realistic-looking toy guns.

Public service ads will be posted on buses and subways throughout the city featuring a red gun and a black one and will ask the question: Which is real and which is a toy?

In addition, fines for selling illegal toy guns will be sharply raised from $1,000 maximum per sale to $5,000 maximum for a first offense and up to $8,000 for repeat offenses.

A third conviction in two years could also padlock a store for up to five days ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/12/09/2009-12-09_city_takes_aim_at_realisticlooking_toy_guns.html

[PavePusher]

32. Wow, nicely unbiased poll with that story. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Available on Amazon:

Another online store:


Cheaper than going to a regular store, shipped to your doorstep, even in NY.

[proteus_lives]

34. Oh, yeah. This will do heaps of good.

:eyes:

Morons.

[beevul]

42. There was a made for TV movie about this, Most of us saw it when we were kids.

And here they are sending out the enforcement for the afforementioned tougher penalties: