Fort Bliss soldiers told to register private guns

[oneshooter]

Another major U.S. military base is requiring soldiers who live off the premises to provide descriptions, serial numbers, calibers, makes and models of any of the guns they own privately, and do not take onto the premises of the installation.

According to a copy of a "Weapons Registration Form" submitted to WND by a soldier from Fort Bliss in Texas, the soldiers have to provide their own information including Social Security number, a physical description and addresses and telephone numbers, along with the serial number, type, action, make, caliber, finish, location stored, model, overall length and barrel description of each weapon they own

Base public information officer Jean Offutt told WND that registration of privately owned weapons is suggested and recommended, but there's no enforcement procedures available to the military if someone chooses not to submit that off-post information

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100151

Now when I was in the Corp all I had to do was get the Base Commanders OK and they would store it in the Armoury.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[tbyg52]

1. That is complete BS.

If it's off base, it's none of their business. Just trying to CYA after Fort Hood, I guess.

[proteus_lives]

2. Utter crap!

[Euromutt]

3. Bear in mind it is World Nut Daily, and treat accordingly

The article reports that the base PIO says it's not actually a requirement, and there's no reason not to believe that. The problem is that a lot of things that trickle down through the military hierarchy get transmogrified from "suggested" to "mandatory" along the way, which is why their anonymous source may have been under the impression that filling out and submitting the form is a requirement, when in fact it is not.

[tbyg52]

4. Even if is "suggested," it is BS.

I'm a bleeding-heart liberal *and* a gun-rights nut.

[Euromutt]

5. I don't disagree, but "suggested" means you get to dismiss it as the bullshit it is

I don't know that I'd describe myself as bleeding-heart liberal, but I do consider myself a pro-RKBA liberal, and I absolutely take the same position as the ACLU (of which I am a card-carrying member) that people's human and civil rights don't stop at the threshold of their place of employment, much less that any employer has the right to dictate his employees' behavior while they're off the clock and off the premises.

I'm just saying the source here is World Nut Daily, a source not exactly noted for its objectivity, and any claims made should be questioned until corroborated.

[rd_kent]

6. Off base they have no authority do do any of that. This is a WND story, so its probably false.

No commander has the authority to ask for that info about guns off base. None, zero, zip, nada. This story is totally false.

If on the off chance that any of this is true, then this will be immediately challenged in court.

[X_Digger]

7. Old old old meme that gets rehashed every so often..

Not the date of this latest piece- June 09

same thing, same "source", different base- http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92395 -- march 09

I remember tons of stories like these floating around BBS's and fidoNET back in '92-'94.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Calling bullshit.

Stop reading World Nut Daily.

[one-eyed fat man]

9. Not so fast.................

Off post privately owned firearms have been subject registration at various times and on different posts. Garrison Commanders or the Provost Marshals have promulgated local regulations to that effect.

I was at Fort Knox in 1986 when the Provost Marshal sent MPI out to local gun-shops to routinely "ask" to look at 4473's. FFL's were under no obligation to comply, but many did. No warrant is needed, if they "ask" and you say, "yes."

Currently, Fort Knox regulations state, in part:

http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/dhr/asd/regs/r210-1.pdf

a. The provisions of this regulation apply to all Department of Defense (DOD) active duty and retired military and civilian personnel; US Anny Reserve/National Guard (USAR/NG) personnel on post for active duty training or inactive training; military Family members; and civilians employed on, visiting, or traveling through w on the Fort Knox installation.

b. This regulation wilt not become void in its entirety merely because one part or portion thereof is declared unconstitutional or void.

c. This regulation is punitive. Military violators of regulations or this regulation may be prosecuted under the UCMJ or subject to administrative action. Civilian violators may be subject to administrative or judicial action under Title 18, United States Code (USC), or Assimilated Kentucky Revised Statutes.

And anyone who resides off-post who wishes to use MWR facilities to shoot, gets a card from the Morale, Welfare, Recreation office, after they fill out a a card recording all the pertinent information on the fire arm, and are run through a NICS check.

(1) DOD and nonmilitary affiliated civilians firing at an approved firing range for pleasure shooting must have a Morale, Welfare, and Recreation (MWR) card. This card will be obtained from the Directorate of Morale, Welfare, and Recreation (DMWR), and a National Crimes Information Center (NCIC) check will be conducted by DMWR before issuing any card. The NCIC check can be made by calling the military police (MPs) at 624-2443 or 5923. The card must be obtained before bringing any weapon on the installation and be retained on person at all times while on the installation. Individuals will also be required to sign in at French Range and present the MWR card when signing in. No one will be allowed to shoot without first obtaining the MWR card. Active duty, USARNG and retired military, and their Family members are not required to have an MWR card, but they must produce a military ID and sign in at French Range. Guests of a military ID or MWR cardholders are required to be signed in by the cardholder.

Prior to 2004, Fort Bragg required off-post personnel to register, see extract below, emphasis added. http://www.bragg.army.mil/ProvostMarshal/FBRegs/FBReg190-12.doc

SUMMARY OF CHANGE

XVIII Airborne Corps & Fort Bragg Regulation 190-12
Privately Owned Weapons and Ammunition Control and Prohibited Weapons

This revision dated 1 December 2004

This is a comprehensive revision. The title has been changed from “Privately Owned Weapons and Ammunition Control and Prohibited Items,” to “Privately Owned Weapons and Ammunition Control and Prohibited Weapons,” to clarify the scope of the regulation. It outlines the requirements for purchasing, transporting, and storing privately owned weapons and ammunition on Fort Bragg (FB). It also lists prohibited weapons.

Eliminates the requirement for registering weapons brought on to Fort Bragg, but not actually stored on Fort Bragg. This includes situations like service members (SM) living off post (and storing their weapons off post), and unaffiliated personnel living off post who come on post only to hunt.

Fort Stewart, the registration form quietly omits any clarification between on and off-post requirements.

http://www.stewart.army.mil/des/documents/PrintableFSGAWeaponRegForm.pdf


Now, maybe, just maybe, if I hadn't spent 26 years in the Army, you might be able to convince me that Commanders will not occasionally reach beyond what is legally permissible. Surely, no one has used a "Health and Welfare Inspection" as subterfuge for an illegal search! No one has take information on an MWR card to collect data they are not otherwise entitled to collect.