Thank you to John Murtha!

[virginia mountainman]

I would like to publicly thank Congressman Murtha of PA, for his help getting this rider, to Department of Defense Appropriations Act of 2010, expanded and passed into law...

His help, is greatly appreciated, in helping to protect M-1 carbines, M-1 Garands, M-14s, .22 caliber rifles, and others from being destroyed.

"None of the funds available to the Department of Defense may be used to demilitarize or dispose of M-1 Carbines, M-1 Garand rifles, M-14 rifles, .22 caliber rifles, .30 caliber rifles, or M-1911 pistols, or to demilitarize or destroy small arms ammunition or ammunition components that are not otherwise prohibited from commercial sale under Federal law, unless the small arms ammunition or ammunition components are certified by the Secretary of the Army or designee as unserviceable or unsafe for further use."

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3326/text

[spin]

1. Good. (n/t)

[Renew Deal]

2. Can you tell my why this is a good thing?

Because I don't get it. Why shouldn't the military destroy these weapons if they don't need them anymore? It reminds me of the F22 debate. :shrug:

[virginia mountainman]

3. Many of us collect these historical artifacts, as a way of holding on to our nations past..

I, among many others in here do.

[cliffordu]

4. They are historically important weapons and are

extremely kewell to own - I might be buying an M-1 Garand soon - I found a WWII model at a 'reasonable' price....

[virginia mountainman]

6. Buy it from the US Government's CMP program...

They will ship it right to your doorstep, with ammuniton... LOL Much to the chagrin of Republican's Sara Brady, Paul Helmke, and Bloomberg...

http://www.thecmp.org/

[cliffordu]

7. A friend of mine got one that way....

Most excellent weapon....

[kenfrequed]

13. For me that is an economic concern

If the US government could recoup even a fraction of the losses that the wildly price gouging arms industry demands in the first place then I say that no money should be spent to dispose of them.

[eqfan592]

8. As an owner of an M-1 Garand...

...I can tell you that this is a fairly great thing for lovers of history in the country. These firearms should be handed over to the CMP to be sold to the general population at a reasonable cost.

[Captain Hilts]

17. I plan to get one. My mother distributed them at the Div. of Civilian Marksmanship for the Army. nt

[eqfan592]

20. Not to go off topic....

...but if you do get one, I highly recommend getting an adjustable gas valve for it. This way you can fine tune the gas system to operate at the lowest possible pressure, which will extend the life of those particular parts of the rifle. This is especially true if you are going to be shooting any modern 30-06 loads, as the gas system was not designed to work with the pressures created by modern ammunition, and shooting this ammo without adjusting the adjustable gas valve can damage the rifle in time.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146

[Captain Hilts]

21. I'm not that concerned whether it fires or not. I've no doubt it's too much weapon for me

to handle. It's a beast that ruined the shoulders of a generation!

Checking out the website, I might get the 'ladies'/'officers' model - the carbine.

[eqfan592]

23. The .30 carbine is a very fine firearm!

And it also has MUCH less recoil :) But I think you'd be surprised at the m1 Garand. The recoil is stiff, I won't lie, but you toss a nice recoil pad on there and it's very shootalbe! :D

I personally don't do more than 40 rounds while I'm out at the range with the Garand, due to a mixture of cost and not wanting a bruise :P Going from the Garand to my .22's or my 9mm carbine is like a world of difference!

[krispos42]

9. Well, they can destroy them at a cost of several dozen dollars per weapon...

...or they can sell them at a profit of several hundred dollars per weapon. New-manufacture M1 Carbines, for example, will set you back about a grand. Military-surplus M1 Carbines are sold by CMP for about $600, and can be found on the used-gun market for $750+

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx?Keywords=M1+Carbine


Most of the guns on the list are perfectly legal for US civilians to own and there is a demand for them in the civilian market, so it would be borderline stupid to NOT sell them. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of M1 Carbines and M1 Garands already in civilian hands. There are a couple of million of Colt .45s owned by civilians; the Colt .45 Auto has been in continuous production for 98 years.


Even the full-auto weapons, such as the M-16s, can be reworked to semi-auto-only and solds. Gun collectors would pay big bucks for a used (and civilian-legal) US government-issue veteran rifle.


It would be an excellent way to raise funds to buy new rifles as needed for the military.



And from an ecological standpoint, reuse is better than recyling. It's better to simply transfer ownership of the existing guns than have them melted down for scrap so another manufacturer can buy the steel and re-heat and re-machine it into another gun.

[oneshooter]

11. I am sorry, this is not true.

"Even the full-auto weapons, such as the M-16s, can be reworked to semi-auto-only and sold. Gun collectors would pay big bucks for a used (and civilian-legal) US government-issue veteran rifle."

The BATFE has declared that "once a full auto, always a full auto" ans the registry closed in 1986. The surplus M-16's will be sold to other countries, kept as training weapons, used as war emergency stock, or sent to "Capt. Crunch" to be destroyed. Even the bolt and carrier must be destroyed.

AFAIK There were no semi-auto only M-14's built. The civilian model (M1a) is semi-auto only.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[derby378]

14. That's not entirely true...

I agree that the surplus M-16s cannot be added to the NFA registry unless the law is changed (hint, hint), but it has been possible to disassemble full-auto AKs from Eastern Europe, destroy the original receivers, and then sell the remaining parts in America as parts kits to be built using semi-auto receivers. This passes muster with the BATFE, although any AK manufactured in such a way since 2005 must have a minimum of six US-made parts in the entire build. The receiver already counts as one part, so all you do is swap out the original trigger set for a US-made trigger, hammer, and disconnector. Install a pistol grip from Hogue or TAPCO as well as a US-made gas piston and your new AK is civilian-legal and ready to go.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. It passes muster only because they can't prove it.

I don't think you could do that in the US. In any case, there's little demand for heavily used AR-15 parts, whereas items like a Garand... please oh please do not be melting those down.. I'm still looking for one.

[oneshooter]

26. The only maker of M1a receivers is

Springfield Armory.And they do not list any receivers for sale as separate parts. Th Machine, heat treat, and final finish a receiver costa a lot, nearly half the cost of the rifle. To assemble the receiver/bolt, install and headspace the barrel, and time the action is well beyond what most home gunsmiths can do. Even with the specialized gages and fixtures.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=13

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Some receivers were built in China for Norinco. These were cast, not forged, and are of questionable quality.

[kenfrequed]

15. Still

The heart of his point is taken. Better to resell and recoup losses than to spend money destroying these weapons.

[Renew Deal]

12. Thanks everyone for the response.

I didn't know anything about this and the CMP. This is what makes DU awesome!

[eqfan592]

24. No problem!

Don't believe all the nasty stories you hear about us here in the "Gungeon"! We're not the evil monsters folks take us for! ;)

Glad we could help clear things up for ya :)

[benEzra]

10. Because they are of great value to civilian collectors.

Instead of paying to destroy them, the military can sell them to approved civilians via the Civilian Marksmanship Program, and actually make money on it.

These guns would AFAIK all fall under NFA Title 1 as civilian guns (the military could not do this with automatic weapons, but these are non-automatic; I believe the M14's in question were manufactured as semiauto-only guns, not select-fire).

[slackmaster]

18. Have you ever collected anything?

Coins or stamps, for example?

The fact that an object is no longer needed for its original purpose does not justify its destruction. Especially things that can be sold to people who will use them or simply treasure them.

[cliffordu]

5. I want an M-14. Had one in Vietnam...

most excellent.

[slackmaster]

19. You won't ever be able to buy an original receiver, but they may sell parts kits

Everything except the receiver. Attach those to a semiautomatic M1A receiver, and you have a nice historic-looking rifle.

[eqfan592]

25. Do you have a source for the m14 parts kits?

My dad also used an m14 back in Vietnam and loved the rifle. He'd love to own one again, but the M1A's are a bit pricey, so I've been trying to hunt down a good parts kit so that we could build one as sort of a father/son project, but I haven't had too much luck finding a complete parts kit (though it's been a while since I last looked).

[slackmaster]

27. I'll let people know if and when I hear of one

Policy up to now has been to destroy any rifles that are no longer in use. I believe that policy dates back to the Clinton administration.

President Clinton talked briefly about eliminating the CMP. I assume he was quietly talked out of it.

[Captain Hilts]

16. My mother worked for the Army's Division of Civilian Marksmanship. nt