Peoria might be a pilot city for concealed carry in Illinois...

[spin]

Posted Dec 22, 2009 @ 11:27 PM
Last update Dec 23, 2009 @ 08:39 AM

PEORIA —

Dodge City was once known as a true frontier town of the Wild West, where lawlessness and gunslinging were common during the cattle drives of the late 1800s.

But the city also became an unusual reference point during the first public debate Tuesday on whether Peoria should serve as a pilot city for a statewide concealed-carry law.

At-large City Councilman Gary Sandberg questioned how residents will be able to possess concealed handguns at restaurants, taverns and other locations of Peoria that abut nearby cities that wouldn't have a concealed-carry law, such as Peoria Heights and West Peoria.

***snip***

Earlier this month, state Sen. Dale Risinger, R-Peoria, said he was going to wait and see what the outcome will be of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling on the city of Chicago's handgun ban before proposing a concealed-carry law for Peoria. A ruling is expected in March.

Ardis initially pushed to have Peoria serve as a test city for a responsible statewide concealed-carry law in May after a rash of shootings occurred in the city, including one at an East Bluff gas station in which an attendant was shot and killed.

He has said the measure could allow Peoria to serve as a test city for three to five years to see if crime drops as a result of arming residents in a responsible manner.

Peoria mayor Jim Ardis governs over a City Council meeting.
http://www.pjstar.com/news/x89205752/Concealed-carry-proposal-draws-comparisons-to-Dodge-City

EDITORIAL: Allow concealed carry in Illinois
ed Aug 12, 2009,

At a July 23 South-West Kiwanis Club meeting, Kevin Lyons spoke against concealed-carry in Peoria.
The Peoria County State’s Attorney is adamant on this topic. “We need fewer guns, not more,” Lyons said. “It’s the increased circulation of guns I have a dispassion for.”
Lyons argues that people can have a gun in their home or business as the law stands right now.
Lyons makes reasoned arguments. His position merits airing, because he has a very valid point when he says, “The advancement of gun safety laws has little to do with safety.”
Lyons is absolutely right that feeding political agendas is not a reasoned argument in favor of concealed carry.
But, a growing fear of crime by responsible citizens is reasonable.
Those who favor concealed carry can argue convincingly that it is growing increasingly likely you will be robbed, or worse, at an ATM, a stoplight or even the golf course.
There is no shortage of violent crime in Peoria. Would more people carrying guns address the issue of violent crime? Or, would it just make people think it does?
Those are valid questions. Lyons is right to raise them. But, those are questions that cannot be answered until Illinois residents have an opportunity to carry concealed weapons.
Let us not forget the people have a right to keep and bear arms guaranteed in the Constitution.
Peoria Mayor Jim Ardis wants Peoria to become a test-market for concealed carry. Bartonville has asked to be a part of any pilot program agreed to by the state. An Illinois Sheriff’s Association survey shows 90 percent of their membership support concealed carry.
http://www.peoriatimesobserver.com/opinions/editorials/x772297700/EDITORIAL-Allow-concelaed-carry-in-Illinois

[jeepnstein]

1. "to see if crime drops"?

OK, that's just precious. They're basing CCW statewide on it reducing crime in one city? I can see maybe basing it on a result of no increase in crime in the CCW bearing population but to expect it to reduce crime overall is a bit dumb.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Oh, crime will drop - I guarantee it.

We are at, or near, the bottom of a recession/unemployment cycle - such cycles are ALWAYS high on crime. In 4 years, barring catastrophe, things will be better and crime will drop. And it will have NOTHING to do with the CCW experiment.

[TPaine7]

14. And crime has dropped recently too, according to the FBI,

And that fact does not fit readily into your prepared rationalization. I feel sure that crime falling as the economy spiraled had nothing to do with the spread of concealed carry and the peak in gun sales, right? As we go down, crime is unrelated to gun "proliferation" and as we go up, crime is unrelated to gun "proliferation." At least if crime is falling, right?

If crime had been going UP as more and more states issued more and more CCW permits, that would have been another matter altogether, wouldn't it? (Come on, you can tell me; I can keep a secret.)

[spin]

5. Orlando Florida had a problem with women being raped in the sixties...

This isn't just recent. Let's go back to 1966. In that year, the number of rapes in Orlando, FL tripled - and that was accompanied by a dramatic increase in robberies as well. This terrified the community ¬particularly women. Police began offering well-publicized courses in how to use handguns, and over 2500 women promptly took the course. Apparently, word got out to criminals and would-be criminals, that women had guns and knew how to use them. One year later, the rape, assault, robbery and burglary rate had all plumped in Orlando, while over the rest of the state they continued to rise.
http://www.theadvocates.org/library/guns.html

The anti-concealed carry crew would be very upset if the criminals just journeyed to neighboring cities and the crime rate took a significant drop in Peoria.

Still the idea of a pilot city to test to see if concealed carry works is rather stupid considering that the majority of states allow concealed carry. No state that ever passed the law has repealed it. You can argue that concealed carry doesn't reduce crime even though some evidence supports that fact, but those who obtain concealed carry licenses are not a significant crime problem. They are not angels, but come close.

Perhaps the wish of Illinois is merely to allow criminals to enjoy the advantage of concealed carry while denying it to honest citizens for another 3 to five years or more. If I was a professional criminal, I would live in a state like Illinois. Pickings are easier and far less dangerous for the mugger or robber in states that tightly regulate firearms.

[xchrom]

3. So glad I don' live there anymore. Nt

[eqfan592]

4. Yep, because barring concealed carry...

...has done a great job at preventing criminals from carrying concealed. Oh, wait a minute....

[xchrom]

6. I don't want to hang around people who carry guns.

Legal or not.

[eqfan592]

8. Too bad for you, then.

If you want to leave yourself less able to defend yourself, that's your choice. But you don't have the right to deny that ability to others.

Your irrational fears should NOT dictate public policy.

[spin]

10. How do you know if the people you hang with have a concealed carry permit?...

Two classes of people do in most states, those who are licensed and those who are not. Most of those who carry illegally, carry because they are criminals. The overwhelming majority who have a license are honest citizens who present ABSOLUTELY no danger to you.

I know a large number of people who have concealed carry licenses. They form a very diverse group. Most of the people I know who have licenses are middle class working people. Their occupations are varied. Some own their own business, some are teachers, some are retired, some are ex-police, some are factory workers, some are preachers, some are technicians in the medical field, some are nurses etc. etc.

A few people who have concealed carry permits are from the poor class and feel the expense of a license is a worthwhile investment for the environment they are forced to live in.

I also know several very rich individuals who have a concealed carry license, one owns several restaurants in different states, one is a doctor in a specialized field, one is a lawyer.

Perhaps you live in Chicago or a gun unfriendly state. But if you live in a state that allows concealed carry, it's quite possible that one of your friends may have a license and carry. Often, people with a carry permit don't advertise.

The fact that a individual has a carry permit in no way defines that person as evil or dangerous. In fact, just the opposite.

[SteveM]

15. Umm, if they are carrying concealed, how would you know? (nt)

[safeinOhio]

7. As I recall "Shall issue" came about, not because it deters crime,

but because carry permits were only issued to friends and donators to politicians. It was later when crime was reduced that it became the reason to issue more CCWs.

[spin]

9. Before the "shall issue" law took effect...

Florida was a "may issue" state. You could apply for a license and if you were rich, politically connected or in a rural area you could carry locally. If you traveled to a neighboring county, you could be out of luck.

After "shall issue" concealed carry passed in Florida, you could carry state wide. The license fee was inexpensive and if you had firearms training in the military, you didn't even need to take the concealed carry course.

Despite all the predictions, violent crime rates fell in Florida. The Florida law became the standard which other states used as they formulated their own concealed carry laws.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. Criminal started hitting rental cars because they were likely out-of-state and unarmed.

Crooks don't like the idea that victims might shoot back. To solve that problem, FL required rental cars to be unmarked, and criminals had to go back to guessing.

[GreenStormCloud]

11. They need a test city when 39 states are already "shall issue"?

And one additional state allows every citizen to carry concealed. Total of 40 states. And they need a test city.

[eqfan592]

13. I thought it was 38 shall issue states...

...and 2 that allowed every citizen to carry concealed (Alaska and Vermont)? I could very well be wrong, which is why I'm bringing it up :)

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Alaska is both, for reciprocity.

Inside Alaska, any citizen can carry concealed. But if an Alaskan goes to any other state, he can't carry. So Alaska solved that problem by having shall-issue CCW permits that citizens can use in other states that Alaska has reciprocity with. So when I am counting shall-issue states, I count AK as one.

[PavePusher]

16. Ha, I was just going to say that...

Illinios - where stupid goes to grow (at least as far as firearms are concerned).