Police: Pa. pastor shoots son during fight

[joeybee12]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34599611/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

DARBY, Pa. - A pastor fatally shot one of his eight children on Christmas Day during a dispute at the family home, where more than a dozen relatives had gathered to celebrate the holiday, police said.

Kirk Caldwell killed 21-year-old Jordan Caldwell after intervening in a violent confrontation between the son and a woman at around 2 p.m. at their home in suburban Philadelphia, Darby Borough police said Friday.

Kirk Caldwell fired a single shot, striking his son in the chest, police Chief Robert Smythe said. Jordan Caldwell died at a hospital shortly afterward, police said.

[pissedoff01]

1. Spare the firearm and spoil the child

[snagglepuss]

2. Raised by the sword, died by the sword. nt

[onehandle]

3. Guns kill family members.

That seems to be their main purpose within households.

[Pavulon]

36. did he drop it, faulty gear?

sounds like a person killed another person. Pretty common thing, even before they had guns.

[CANDO]

42. But guns mixed with bad situations make it so much easier!

Piss me off....no problem....boom...your dead. I own guns. I don't carry them. I will not knowingly be around people paranoid enough to think they need to carry. That includes family. My wing-nut family members are all nutso about carrying guns since Obama's Presidency. I don't see those particular family members much.

[eqfan592]

46. I love posts like this.

So shockingly ignorant and dripping with arrogance it's not even funny. Seriously, CANDO, don't tell others you're a progressive, as I'd rather not be associated with the likes of you.

[SteveM]

51. Have you noticed the tag-team at the top of the posting list?

Where da funny masks and cock-strut 'round the ring?

[PavePusher]

44. Then you are blind... n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

49. Main purpose is killing family members? Back to math class for you.

Including suicides, there are about 30,000 gun fatalities annually in the country. There are about 50,000,000 households with guns. That means that means that 99.94% of households with guns annually used their guns for something else. Therefore the primary purpose of guns in households is for some other purpose than killing family members.

[Fumesucker]

4. The use of a gun leaves plenty of time for sober reflection..

After you have pulled the trigger.

Many lives there that will never be the same again.

[JonQ]

5. Says it was to intervene in a "violent confrontation"

between his son and a woman. Depending on the degree of violence I would say this could very well be justified. If it was a choice between doing nothing and seeing this woman in the hospital or intervening I think he did the right thing.

But we need more details than are currently available.

[dysfunctional press]

6. shooting him in the leg or arm probably would have stopped the 'confrontation' as well...

and maybe without killing anyone.

[walldude]

8. Hell firing the gun in the dirt would have done the same thing

When you are not in a firing range situation or out hunting or whatever the sound of a gunshot usually stops everything.

[eilen]

12. Unless the son was not afraid that his father would actually shoot him

He might have thought he was bluffing.

[JonQ]

13. Difficult to shoot a moving person in the leg

without risking missing and hitting a bystander, or missing and having him attack you.

[rd_kent]

15. You may be right, but you may be wrong.

We will never know.

[proteus_lives]

25. Unless you're a trained marksman, that only works in the movies.

[alphafemale]

27. Thanks for saying what I was thinking.

The poster might just as well made a comment about "shooting the gun out of his hand."

[Katya Mullethov]

48. The femoral artery

Is -IN- your leg .

[tburnsten]

52. And I've never heard of limb-specific marksmanship training

[winyanstaz]

18. You are correct.

Far too many will rush to judgement without knowing all the facts.

[asjr]

7. He could have gotten their attention

by just shooting the gun up into the air.

[PavePusher]

45. That is a stupid, ignorant and unsafe suggestion. n/t

[Bluebear]

9. Yes, Reverend, shooting someone in their chest certainly "intervenes".

[Wilms]

10. End Times Harvest Mission for Christ in Philadelphia

:eyes:

[RC]

11. Somehow "Man of God" (save) and "Gun" (kill) doesn't go together very well

No pun intended. Kind of defeats the purpose of the message of religion.

[rd_kent]

16. What is the "message of religion"?

[timtom]

21. Depends on the religion, I suppose.

[rd_kent]

22. uh, yeah, thats why I was asking RC, the one who said it.

But thanks, I guess.

[timtom]

31. I'm sorry.

I knee-jerk reacted to the question, completely out of context. I looked to the OP to find the phrase, "message of religion" and didn't find it.

As Dorothy (in the Wizard of Oz) explained, "I learned that you need look no further than the post just above the one you responded to..."

[rd_kent]

33. No worries.

[JVS]

14. Spare the lead, spoil the child?

[Matariki]

17. Ugh - his church was called End Times Harvest Mission

[Initech]

38. Is that the nutty apocalypse-worshipping side of Christianity?

[rd_kent]

56. Only ONE side of christianity is "nutty"?

Its all nutty. All religions are nutty! Believing in something that has never produced a single oiece of evidence to support the existence of a god is nutty.

[OnyxCollie]

19. If the son was armed, he might be alive today.

Everybody must have guns!!1!:crazy:

[rd_kent]

20. If you were intellectually armed, you might not make ignorant statements like that.

[OnyxCollie]

23. Do you have a point?

Or do you just like to see your random thoughts in print?

Edit: typo

[rd_kent]

26. I think the better question is "Do YOU have a point?"

Your post was hyperbole and nonsense, so for you to lecture me on random thoughts is quite hypocritical.

[OnyxCollie]

28. It was sarcasm.

I thought the "1" among the exclamation points would have given it away, and I even added the crazy smilie to be sure, but that was lost on you.

You remind me of a poster I have on ignore who responds to similar threads. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

Do you defer to people in power?

Do you believe those who question people in power should receive excessive punishment to "get back in line?"

Do you believe believe that once those who question power are punished, everything will be fine?

Have you, to the best of your knowledge, ever been treated for a cognitive disability?

[rd_kent]

32. no, no, no and no.

[Javaman]

54. You missed one.

:rofl:

[jgraz]

43. Never try sarcasm on the gunnies. They aren't equipped for it.

[Katya Mullethov]

47. Mordacity is appreciated

When properly applied (not in desperation) .

[SteveM]

53. What gun-controllers consider sarcasm is self-revealing...

Always looking for confrontation; you know, sort-of, like man! can't you take a joke? What's wrong with you?

I don't blame 'em. They have always used derision (especially back 20-30 years ago when it worked), but now they just sprinkle some old all-spice on stale bread and call it sarcasm. To present an argument is a little too much. Haven't we been through all of them by now?

Things have changed, jgraz.

[Javaman]

55. Good use of sarcasm.

:rofl:

[SteveM]

59. I thought it was prosaic explanation. Sheesh, can't get away from that stuff.

[CatWoman]

24. Marvin Gaye redux

:(

[daleo]

29. Fathers killing sons

Is a recurring Christian motif.

[aikoaiko]

30. Its difficult to determine if this shooting was justified or not.

Perhaps he saved the woman's life. Perhaps he saved his own? Perhaps he acted out of anger and malice?

No matter what it is a tragedy we don't know the whole story yet to know just how tragic it was.

[michreject]

34. The article states no charges filed yet

That leaves to believe that is was justified.

[aikoaiko]

40. I'm thinking that is true myself.

[edbermac]

35. "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."

[donco6]

37. That'll make for a great Christmas memory.

Year after year after year . . .

Sad.

[hunter]

39. Fortunately my family always restricted themselves to the cutlery.

The guns were always locked up for the Christmas Holidays because everyone knew there would be domestic disputes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. Never miss an opportunity to turn a family tragedy into your little political soapbox.

[GreenStormCloud]

50. UPDATES

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/80127182.html?cmpid=15585797

The younger Caldwell was engaged in a physically violent domestic situation with a woman, possibly his girlfriend, Darby Police Chief Robert Smythe said.

"From what we're getting, it was extremely violent," Smythe said. "The father somehow became involved in this domestic thing, and at some point the father had a gun registered to him and fired one shot, striking the boy in the chest."

Kirk Caldwell stayed at the scene until police arrived and cooperated with detectives during questioning, Smythe said.

IOW, the younger guy was beating the crap out of a woman, and wouldn't stop.

A this point, there are no internet new articles that show he has been charged with a crime, although that may happen.

[tburnsten]

58. This is an awful situation through and through

And very sad for the pastor. I think, not knowing many details, that he took the right path by trying to protect the woman from his son (a man, not a "boy" as the police officer called him) and it is pretty terrible that he seems to have been forced to kill his own child.

I think the amount of people posting here making disparaging comments and basically saying that he got what he deserved (a dead child) by owning a gun at all is disgraceful. It makes me ashamed to think that these are people who think of themselves as progressives, when I always counted compassion and reasonable behavior among two of the things that mark a progressive person.

[GreenStormCloud]

57. He has been arrested and taken into custody.

http://www.examiner.com/x-15540-New-Orleans-Top-News-Examiner~y2009m12d26-Philadelphia-pastor-shoots-son-to-death-during-Christmas-dispute