The ACLU isn't blamed for hate speech, so...

[friendly_iconoclast]

why is the NRA blamed (by some) for shootings? Animistic nonsense about guns aside.

Note: thanks to DUer rd_kent for the original analogy.

[sandnsea]

1. Well the KKK is blamed for hate speech

That's the appropriate analogy. The NRA is to guns what the KKK is to bigotry. The KKK says they protect freedom of speech rights too, but they don't.

Yours is nuts, and seeing it comes from rd_kent, I'm not surprised.

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. The KKK is against the 1st and 14th Amendments. The NRA is for the Second.

The Kluxers want Americans separated out by race and religion, and have resorted to violence and murder in the attempt to do so- The NRA is in favor of Constitutional rights for all Americans.

The NRA helped Robert F. Williams and other African-Americans arm themselves against violent racists. You might also
research the Deacons For Defense And Justice.

Your knowledge of history fails along with your rhetorical skills.

[sandnsea]

4. That's not what the KKK says

They say they are for the freedom for white people to say whatever they want. Much like the NRA says they are for the freedom of people to have any weapon they want. They're exactly the same.

[friendly_iconoclast]

5. "the NRA says they are for the freedom of people to have any weapon they want." Cite, please?

But you don't have one, do you? Since they don't actually hold the position you believe they have.

So far, you're 0 for 2.

[sandnsea]

7. So the NRA is against the 2nd Amendment?

They don't believe in the right of the people to bear arms. Period.

[rd_kent]

9. Why so disingenuous?

You are really stretching here......

[sandnsea]

11. The right to regulate arms is the entire argument

So if you're saying the NRA agrees with the right to regulate arms, then I don't know why there's a 2nd Amendment debate at all.

[rd_kent]

12. I agree, there seems to be no need for a debate

The constitution confirms the right to keep and bear arms. End of discussion.

[sandnsea]

15. Friendly Iconoclast says otherwise

So which is it?

[TheWraith]

18. Because some people define "regulating arms" as "banning all guns."

And don't give me the line that no one has that intent, because several gun control groups have admitted that's EXACTLY their goal, including Brady, and they promote the total gun bans of DC, Chicago, and New York as examples of ideal gun policy.

[sandnsea]

21. None of those places ban all guns

So don't give me that line. If the NRA supports regulation, and gun regulation advocates DON'T support a 100% ban; then we're at a place where negotiations can happen.

Unfortunately, campaign politics and lobbying money gets in the way and we end up with stupid analogies equating the ACLU to the NRA.

[SteveM]

31. Stretching? She's got a hernia, so to speak (nt)

[benEzra]

10. Huh?

Is the ACLU against the First Amendment because they are OK with restrictions on child porn and snuff films?

The NRA's position on the 2ndA, while far less absolutist than (say) GOA or JFPO, is consistent with D.C. v. Heller, i.e. protecting the right of mentally competent adults with clean records to own small arms in common use for lawful purposes without punitive hassle.

[friendly_iconoclast]

14. You posted your first reply without knowing what you were talking about.

And respond with an equally inaccurate reply when called on it? Sad

0 for 3 now.

[rd_kent]

6. Sandandsea, are you really that obtuse?

In your post you show that the KKK speaks only for white people and that the NRA speaks for all people. Do you not see the difference?

And please show me where the NRA says that they want everyone to have any gun they want.

[benEzra]

8. Non-automatic, non-sound-suppressed, under-.51-caliber small arms

for mentally competent adults with clean records, actually. And then only if they choose to own them. But, hey, hyperbole in defense of More Authority is always a good thing, right?

And the KKK is about taking rights away from people of color, not about giving more rights to people who are melanin deficient (people with pale skin already have full rights).

FWIW, to the OP's original comment, yes, the ACLU is often blamed for their defense of the First and Fourth Amendments, and (falsely) accused of being on the side of criminals, child molesters, and Terrah-Ists, even though they support none of the above.

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. Here, I've done the research you didn't:

http://www.nraila.org/media/misc/fables.html#FABLE III:

FABLE III: NRA opposes all "reasonable" gun regulations.

Anti-gun activist groups claim that all of their proposals--including gun bans, prohibitive taxes, registration and licensing to name a few-- are "moderate and reasonable." Those who oppose such ideas, they say, are "unreasonable." And they claim that NRA opposes all gun laws. The truth is, NRA supports many gun laws, including federal and state laws that prohibit the possession of firearms by certain categories of people, such as convicted violent criminals, those prohibiting sales of firearms to juveniles, and those requiring instant criminal records checks on retail firearm purchasers.1

NRA has also assisted in writing gun laws. The 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards NRA helped write.2 When anti-gun groups accuse NRA of opposing the law, they lie. NRA, joined by the Justice Department and Treasury Department, opposed only earlier legislation because that legislation would have banned an enormous variety of hunting, target shooting and defensive ammunition.3 The sponsor of the earlier bill, Rep. Mario Biaggi (D-N.Y.), felt that his original goals were met by the NRA-backed bill that became law. "Our final legislative product was not some watered-down version of what we set out to do," Biaggi said on the floor of the House. "In the end, there was no compromise on the part of police safety."

Similarly, the anti-gun lobby also continues to falsely claim that NRA opposed all efforts to ban "plastic guns." In truth, no "plastic" firearms existed then or now. NRA only opposed a bill that would have banned millions of commonplace handguns, and instead supported an alternative, the Hughes-McCollum bill. That 1988 legislation prohibited the development and production of any firearm that would be undetectable by airport detectors, and enhanced airport security systems to counter terrorism. In the end, the NRA-backed legislation passed Congress with wide bipartisan support and was signed into law by President Reagan...

Should we blame the National Education Association or the American Federation of Teachers for your lack of research skills?

[sandnsea]

22. I am thrilled to hear someone admit that. Tell the rest of the gungeon n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

25. Admit that you were wrong about the NRA? I don't follow.

The NRA was and is OK with reasonable gun control. The question is only:

Who gets to define "reasonable"?

Apparently, it's thems as has the most votes.

[sandnsea]

26. Every time someone argues against gun regulation

or makes irrational gun grabber rants, I'll remind them that the NRA supports gun regulation so there shouldn't be any problem. Should make for interesting threads.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. We already know it. We keep up with the facts. N/T

[Taitertots]

17. Please refrain from such obvious lies

The NRA never ever said anything remotely similar to that.

The NRA supports almost all the gun regulations in America.

[Arctic Dave]

23. In what way did the NRA help him against the KKK?

"Williams had already started the Black Armed Guard with the National Rifle Association's blessings, to defend the local black community from nazi's activity."

And what does it mean by their "blessing"?

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. They gave him a gun club charter, and he put it to good use:

http://www.answers.com/topic/robert-williams

...Because the Monroe police department refused to intervene against the Klan, Williams urged Monroe's black community to undertake a program of armed self-defense. Within a year of obtaining a gun club charter from the National Rifle Association (NRA), he recruited 60 members who armed themselves with military surplus weapons and mail-order firearms. As quoted in White Violence Black Response, Williams recalled how his self-defense unit "spent the summer in foxholes behind sandbags. We had steel helmets. We had gas masks. And we had a better communication system than they have now."

As a result of death threats against Perry, Williams posted a 24-hour vigil outside the doctor's home. On October 5, 1959, while the Klan made a routine night ride through Newtown, they unexpectedly met the fire of Williams's defense guard. In Making of Black Revolutionaries, writer Julian Mayfield described the scene: "It was just another good time for the Klan.... Near Dr. Perry's home their revelry was suddenly shattered by the sustained fire of scores of men who had been instructed not to kill anyone if it were not necessary. The firing was blistering, disciplined, and frightening. The motorcade, of about 80 cars, which had begun in a spirit of good fellowship, disintegrated into chaos, with panicky, robed men fleeing in every direction. Some abandoned their automobiles and had to continue on foot."

Following the incarceration of Dr. Perry on charges of performing an illegal abortion, Williams became increasingly involved in the defense of blacks wrongly accused of crimes. In October of 1958, two black Monroe youngsters, James Hanover Thompson age seven, and David "Fuzzy" Simpson age nine, were arrested on a charge of rape for kissing a white girl on the cheek. Though Williams contacted U.S. president Dwight Eisenhower and the national NAACP in regard to the matter, both parties failed to come the boys' defense. Williams then brought in New York defense lawyer Conrad Lynn whose involvement in the case, along with photographs of the convicted youths in the New York Post and the London News Chronicle, prompted the NAACP to intervene. The boys were released on February 13, 1959. Despite the victory, Williams was disappointed with the national NAACP office. During the case, as Robert Shapiro pointed out in White Violence and Black Response, "Williams and the NAACP leadership saw each other as opponents rather than collaborators in a common cause."

In the spring of 1959, a local white man was charged with the attempted rape of a pregnant young black woman, Mrs. Ruth Reed. In keeping with the old South's double racial standard concerning attacks upon women, the white man was acquitted. Embittered by the court's decision, Williams turned to the crowd of black men and women on the steps of the courthouse, and, as he was quoted in The Making of Black Revolutionaries, delivered his legendary statement: "Since the federal government will not bring a halt to lynching in the South, and since the so-called courts lynch our people legally, if it's necessary to stop lynching with lynching, then we must be willing to resort to that method. We must meet violence with violence."

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/negroeswithguns/rob.html

....In 1956, Williams took over leadership of the local chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), which was close to disbanding due to a relentless backlash by the Ku Klux Klan. Williams canvassed for new members and eventually expanded the branch from only six to more than 200 members.

Williams also filed for a charter from the National Rifle Association (NRA) and formed the Black Guard, an armed group committed to the protection of Monroe’s black population. Members received weapons and physical training from Williams to prepare them to keep the peace and come to the aid of black citizens, whose calls to law enforcement often went unanswered....

[Arctic Dave]

27. I been looking on line and this seems to be the only such story for the NRA.

I seem to keep digging up the same story to all the different links. It seems that black people were allowed to own guns prior to the NRA giving him a charter but I'm really sure what the charter was even good for. Do you know what the requirements and the benefits of the charter were?

[rd_kent]

3. Hahahahahaha! Who made YOU the decider of what an appropriate analogy is?

Yours is nuts, and seeing it comes from rd_kent, I'm not surprised.


Thanks for the compliment!

[Taitertots]

16. And the ignorant hyperbole of the year award goes to...

I didn't think this early in the year something could be said that is so stupid it would lock in the award already.

I guess Brady is the westboro baptist church then?

[SteveM]

30. Please, be honest. You know full well gun-control laws came from Jim Crow...

www.georgiacarry.org

All that phony-liberal talk about the "NRA is to guns what the KKK is to bigotry is standing history on its head. But you don't study history, do you? Yours is a deeply prejudiced world which rejects any viewpoint challenging it.

[stray cat]

19. and why is Limbaugh blamed for anything?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

29. limbaugh is blamed for many things... but "anything"?

I'm not sure he could be blamed for anything.
I lost a Wii Tennis match yesterday. Pretty sure ol' limpballs had nothing to do with it.

[virginia mountainman]

20. Great Point...and Great post.. nt