Protesters: Guns Welcome

[duhneece]

Today there was a protest in my community with armed protesters.

Protesters: Guns welcome

Full story: Alamogordo Daily News

If you're not happy with how the government is operating, disgusted with health care reform legislation or cap-and-trade talk, you'll have a chance to show your feelings in public.

And you might be able to do it with a gun in your hand.

A protest, jointly organized by the Otero Tea Party Patriots, the newly formed Alamogordo Second Amendment Task Force and the Sons of Liberty Riders, a national motorcycle rights group that also "fights overbearing government intervention," will be conducted from 1 to 3 p.m. Saturday at the corner of 10th Street and White Sands Boulevard.
http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_14091103

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/alamogordo-daily-news/TQKS4A1KHJLGSOODG

[rd_kent]

1. And, your point is?

[depakid]

2. Pretty obvious....

[rd_kent]

3. no, its not.

[oneshooter]

7. Please expand your take on this.

We are waiting patiently, and with great interest.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[katandmoon]

4. These morons have a lot to overcompensate for, that's why the NRA caters to 'em.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rd_kent]

42. BORING!

:boring:

[paulsby]

50. penis canard

take 1

[PavePusher]

68. We're waiting to see the data you've compiled...

on your survey of gun-owners vs. non-gun-owners, in the "compensation" department.

My guess is, you are making shit up and are a blatent liar.....

[HBravo]

5. Get your point across at the point of a gun???

[PavePusher]

9. So, it's not allowable to exercise...

more than one Civil Right at a time?


Not very Progressive of you...

[HBravo]

11. Exercise all you want but what point are you trying to make?

[PavePusher]

13. What was your point?

"Get your point across at the point of a gun???"

Was anyone holding a gun to someones head to force them to do something?

No?

So, people peacefully exercised their Right to keep and bear arms, while also using their freedom of speech. Oh, the horror!

[HBravo]

15. Just trying to get to the point of the post

Was it about health care or gun rights? Enjoying the banter

[rd_kent]

24. None. Whats YOUR point?

[HBravo]

27. Ok, thank you for the update.

[rd_kent]

32. Your welcome. Did YOU have a point?

[SteveM]

26. We're still trying to figure out the point of the OP. Can you help?(nt)

[HBravo]

31. Wish I could, still confused but I'm ok with that.

[rd_kent]

33. Confusion seems to be your thing....

[HBravo]

34. Enjoying the banter

What was the point of the OP? I am not the only one who is questioning.

[rd_kent]

35. On that, you are correct., Whats the point of any of these types of stories?

Seems that many of the anti-second amendment crowd post these things knowing that gun ownership is at an all time high, violent crime is at its lowest in nearly 50 years, and support for the Second Amendment is secure.

Facts are a hard thing to swallow for these folks, but we keep trying.....

[HBravo]

36. Agreed, CCW holders are more proficient than the police.

They spend more time at a range and take more classes. (Sorry I can not remember were I saw the stats.)

[rd_kent]

39. That is true.

You will find that no matter what stats or facts you post, the anti-second amendment crowd will always cry foul.

[paulsby]

51. an OP doesn't need to have a point

can't one post an interesting story without taking a side or making a point?

personally, i support RKBA and i support people making public displays of their support of same, such as Open Carry Washington does. to educate the public

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. and yet no one will be shot just like the other protests. How is it possible?

[safeinOhio]

37. Hope no idiot lights off a string of firecrackers

in the middle of that tea party.

[PavePusher]

41. Well, if they do...

I hope they collect a Darwin Award...

[47of74]

12. This is still my message to the teabaggers

And I don't care how heavily armed they are either.

[PavePusher]

14. Heh, rational discourse indeed.

And we wonder why they feel the way they do...

For the record, I'm not defending the ignorance... on either side.

[Deep13]

16. Obviously the point of showing up armed is for intimidation value.

Obviously. It feeds into the whole idea that this is a revolution and these guys are somehow like the 1775 patriots. It feeds into the suggestion that someone ought to shoot the President. And it feeds into the idea that the solution for losing an election is threatening violence.

A person who carries a gun has a responsibility to avoid getting into the kind of trouble that would be escalated by the presence of a gun. Having a gun does not mean you can go anywhere. It means you have to be even more cautious than if you don't have one. Around here one is not allowed to bring them into a tavern. It is hard to think of a place more likely to encourage a fight than a place with a bunch of drunks. It's the same thing in a crowd of emotionally charged protesters. That is not the kind of situation that can be made better by the introduction of the potential for lethal force. Frankly, anyone inclined to be packing heat in that kind of a situation does not have the mature circumspection necessary to be carrying one at all. These teabaggers are not Minute Men, they are not Jacobites and they are not Brutus. They are a bunch of primitive screw heads who are being manipulated by powerful interests into opposing their own interests. And it is no virtue that some of them should think that resorting to arms is the solution for anything.

[PavePusher]

18. They are not "resorting to arms".

But you knew that already.

And you seem to be distinctly uncomfortable with the fact that they are able to use arms as a last resort.

I find it amusing that so many people complain that so many others are determined not to be forced to do something against their will.

In other words, the people with firearms are saying "You can not force me to do "X"." And they are correct.

1. You can try to intimidate them. (Risky and counter-productive.)

2. Or you can ignore them. (See "intimidate", above.)

3. Or you can reason with them, use fact and logic to convince them. This is the only method that will lead to a good result. But you'd better be certain you use fact and logic, or they may come to the conclusion that you have lied to them. (See #1 & #2.)

Or, you can wring your hands, cry out about how you only have their best interests in mind, make the firearm the center of attention, and marginalize your desired action.

I know what the anti-2A crowd prefers...

[Deep13]

21. Then why bring them? nt

[rd_kent]

25. Why not?

Last time I checked, it was a right guaranteed by the Constitution.


Why bring signs to a protest? We already know why you are there..........

[Deep13]

49. I have a right to call everyone I meet a shit-eating donkey-raper too.

Doesn't make it a good idea.

[PavePusher]

58. Because doing so may get you punched in the face.

(Not by me, I'm the peaceable type.)

And trying to force an armed citizen to do something s/he is not willing to do may get you effectively resisted.

[PavePusher]

28. To emphasize point #3. n/t

[Deep13]

48. One of the unfortunate facts of life as humans...

...is that not everyone in the world is reasonable. Anyway, how does showing up to an ostensibly peaceful protest armed make it more likely that anyone will be reasonable with them.

[PavePusher]

57. That would, of course, be up to the person trying to change the mind of the armed person.

But if they refuse to be reasonable, they are reminded that force will be a risky option.

[benEzra]

62. I don't think that's intent. They don't WANT supporters of health care reform to be reasonable.

The intent is to provoke the media and HCR supporters into a hysterical anti-gun response, thereby derailing the HCR debate into one about guns. Just as they did a few months ago in Arizona.

[paulsby]

52. rubbish

it;'s not at all obvious.

although i must admit i appreciate the army of darkness'esque prose

shop smart. shop s-mart.

[tucsonlib]

56. I Absolutely Agree With You

Others can rave "What's wrong with exercising your rights?", but in their hearts they know that it's all about intimidation. Just as bad, in my eyes, is that it paints gun-owners as dangerous loonies. I occasionally carry, but a little common sense (not to mention simple courtesy) should be exercised.
I for one despise these bogus "patriots" and their ridiculous "protests".


Only in America would the prospect of providing health care for every citizen be met with opposition from an armed mob.


:banghead:

[PavePusher]

59. It's not about intimidation...

It's about not being able to be intimidated.

It's harder (much) to intimidate an armed person to do your will, you have to convince them. I don't know what is so non-obvious about this...

[tucsonlib]

60. Ridiculous

"It's about not being able to be intimidated"??

By whom? With what? Nobody can intimidate me if I simply make up my mind not to be intimidated!

What you're saying, in effect, is that these gun-toters are paranoid cowards. Which is probably not too far from the truth.

[Euromutt]

17. "A gun in your hand"?

I don't know the law in New Mexico specifically, but generally, holding any firearm by the grip is considered "brandishing" which is a criminal offense. Anyone carrying a firearm in public is well advised to keep handguns holstered and long guns slung.

So the line "and you might be able to do it with a gun in your hand" seems to be sensationalistic hyperbole.

[duhneece]

19. Seeing the Confederate flag

and seeing the comments made by protesters carrying guns while they mixed their protest with very anti-Obama posters was illuminating, but I'm still not sure what I saw.

I took my son to hunter-safety classes, my late husband went to gunsmith school in Denver in the mid 70's, so I'm not anti-gun, but these people have been going into movie theaters with guns showing and there is something inappropriate about that,I think.

There is something juvenile about going to a protest of health care, but advertising that you'll be wearing guns, because it is legal. Seems a sure way to turn people off, to make people want more gun regulation...but that's just my take on it. I guess that's why I posted it here, hoping for less hateful comments than on the on-line version of the story. There's several on-line ltte's and articles and the racism and right-wing talk tied to this event sicken me.

[AlinPA]

22. I think most Americans, while they respect the 2A, would see these folks with the guns protesting

Obama and health care as less than helpful. There is a message in there that many would see as violent. Extreme, IMO.

[PavePusher]

29. See post #18. n/t

[benEzra]

61. What really peeves me is their attempt to turn this into a gun debate.

The anti-HCR people are (IMO) doing this to get publicity, as before, and hoping the resulting media/political circus will shift the debate into one about guns and the people who own them instead of about the health insurance crisis, just as before. They're not bringing guns to the protests to intimidate legislators; they're doing so to provoke the media into talking about guns instead of health insurance reform, and try to leverage grassroots support for gun rights into opposition to HCR. That's also what GOA has also been doing with an email campaign over the last few months.

The publicity stunt in Arizona a few months ago, where the guy brought an unloaded rifle to a staged-for-the-media protest on private property a few blocks from where Obama was speaking, derailed the debate in the media for weeks, which I'm sure was the intent.

[duhneece]

20. TV coverage link

Is there something 'off' about a health-care reform protest where they invite and encourage people to wear guns?

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1341045.shtml?cat=500

[PavePusher]

30. You mean they were encouraged...

to exercise all their Civil Rights, while expressing their displeasure with all parts of government?

Oh, teh horrerers!1!

[safeinOhio]

38. Now if a bunch of sign carrying lefties

with guns strapped on showed up at a Palin or Cheney event you would see ever one of them arrested. We'd see who is really against the 2nd.

[PavePusher]

40. I sure hope they wouldn't be.

And I'd put up cash money for their bail and legal defense. Not to mention, point out that anyone willing to be that unConstitutional, is not fit material for any government position. (Yeah, redundent, I know...)

[aikoaiko]

44. Its possible, but when the New Black Panthers showed up at the Texas Republican convention nothing

happened. It was seen as lawful political protest.

[paulsby]

53. completely unsubstantiated crap

yea, the police conspire to only arrest leftwingers with guns.

yawn...

[AtheistCrusader]

43. One of these protests is going to go horribly wrong at some point

and we are all going to pay mightily for it.

I mean, one shithead with some explosives in his underwear on a plane, and we're seeing massive numbers of Americans ready to accept just about any level of invasion of privacy... One of these protests goes awry with firearms present, and we're going to see some REALLY crazy shit.

[paulsby]

54. there's no constitutional right to fly

no constitutional right to carry explosives.

there is a constitutional right to carry firearms, at least recognized in many states.

it's a silly analogy

[AtheistCrusader]

55. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects

against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


My point is, certain political groups will willingly stomp on constitutional rights, in exchange for (XYZ). In the case of flying, they stomp on unreasonable search, in exchange for commercial flight. If one of these protests goes wrong, you'll see probably a majority lining up to crush open carry. Which can and has been made illegal in many states, through the years.

[duhneece]

45. And the final newspaper article

...Denise ... was positioned in front of Founders Park, located diagonally from the Alamogordo Airborne Memorial. She said the gun display was not necessary.

"I see it as being juvenile and adolescent," she said. "I'm very much a pro-gun rights person. I come from a military family. My late husband was a gunsmith, but I think gun use is OK in an appropriate time and place. Wearing guns to a protest, to me, is extremely juvenile."

Lang said she also wanted to support the health care reform bill that passed the U.S. Senate on Christmas Eve.

"When I worked at the cancer treatment center in Alamogordo, I saw private health care turn down treatment for people who had pre-existing conditions," she said. "I think the health care industry is providing us with bad health care."

http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_14113406

[PavePusher]

46. I carry everywhere I legally am able to...

for self-defense. Why should a protest location be any different? Why do you feel that I would be more prone to breaking laws there?

[TheWraith]

47. Good.

Then the tea party fucknuts won't mind me keeping an eye on them with my 12 gauge handy.

[onehandle]

63. 'Second Amendment Remedies' Welcome. nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

64. So, what kind of violence occured at that rally with all teh scary guns? Oh yeah: *None*.

Unless, of course, one subscribes to the 'moral harm' theory of that well-known progressive Robert Bork:

"Knowledge that an activity is taking place harms those who believe it to be profoundly immoral".

Do you find events like these to be profoundly immoral?

[X_Digger]

67. Sad.. you have to dig up 8 month old posts to feel relevant.

Perhaps you should seek help.

[virginia mountainman]

65. A lot less violence their...than at recent "Anti-Violence Rally"...

LOL I love irony!! And for the record, I go to political events, well armed...Just no one (except close friends) knows it, I carry my .45 concealed... I have done this for years..

The some of you can whine and cry about it, but fact is, if some nut starts shooting up the place, I, want a fighting chance. After all, it is MY right too.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/Slaying_After_Chester_Anti-Violence_Rally_082010

My near constant companions.. My wallet, my cell phone, my Glock 36 in .45 ACP, two spare magazines, and my Virginia CHL permit....

[spin]

66. Why does this thread remind me of "Chicken Little"?

Protesters showed up and some were carrying firearms. There was no shooting. The rally was probably the safest place to be in Alamogordo at that time.

Video: Alamogordo tea party protesters pack heat
Organizers encouraged attendees to bring firearms

By Chris Dudley 1/2/10 10:29 PM

About 300 people attended an anti-Obama rally in Alamogordo Saturday, and many of the protesters showed up at the rally armed with holstered hand-guns and loaded assault rifles.

Protesters cited a number of issues for the event, including the health care reform in Congress, taxes, gun rights, allegations that Obama is not an American citizen. One attendee cited his displeasure with what was described as an international police organization that will take control away from local police departments as a result of a recent Obama secret directive.

Those gathered to protest said they brought their guns because they wanted to draw more attention to the event, because they wanted to exercise their Constitutional Rights, to show responsible gun ownership. One protester threatened armed insurrection if steps are not taken to restore “Constitutional” governance.

The event was organized by the Otero Tea Party Patriots, the Alamogordo Second Amendment Task Force and the Sons of Liberty Riders, a motorcycle rights organization. Protesters were encouraged by the organizing groups to bring their guns.

New Mexico’s Constitution allows for open carry of firearms to most public places. A permit was acquired for the protest and the police were notified of the details before the event.
http://newmexicoindependent.com/43847/video-alamogordo-tea-party-protesters-pack-heat