The Right to Arms: The Criminology of Guns

[rusty_rebar]

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[east texas lib]

6. Not as fun as reading penis posts used by those lacking an intelligent rebuttal...

Do keep it up, by all means.:)

[X_Digger]

7. Might have had an off day.. I'm sure he'll do better next time.

Heck, if he worked hard he could roll in more memes into one post ;)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Why are you gun grabbers so infatuated with penises and masculinity?

[taurus145]

2. Let's see how long it takes the anti's to show up

spouting feelings over facts.

I'll wager that very few read the entire piece before they start shouting platitudes like Haitian gangs are currently swinging machetes.

Good find.

[sharesunited]

3. Isn't that a sweet little gun lovin' article.

He ignores the phrase "a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State..."

He speaks with awed admiration at how seriously the Italians arm themselves, neglecting to recall that Italy is birthplace to MUSSOLINI and the MAFIA.

and

He fails to acknowledge that the availability of guns generally makes them available to the very people he concedes shouldn't have them.

Sorry officer, but I smell gunpowder on your breath.

[X_Digger]

4. Busts your 'murderer waiting to snap' meme, doesn't it?

I was getting ready to page you to this thread.

*snort*

[sharesunited]

5. Yes he says it's mostly career criminals who snap. Criminals who shouldn't even have guns.

I'm going back to the stories of the rampage killings of the recent past, to see if the shooter was a known criminal, or just a person whom people said was troubled, or a person about whom people said I Never Would Have Thought.

[X_Digger]

8. If you have access to criminal and medical records, that might be appropriate..

.. barring that, are you going to depend on the press instead of actual research?

Friends and neighbors have a demonstrated bias to not relate previous observations that might have clued them in to a brewing situation. Nobody wants to think that they missed the signs of impending violence.

[slackmaster]

9. Italy also gave us some wonderful food and wine and music and fine artwork

Don't be knocking Italy because of a single slip-up.

...and the MAFIA.

You can blame Sicily for them.

[sharesunited]

10. I know what you mean. I have been, and it is wonderful.

Despite the guns and street crime.

[oneshooter]

11. I do not ignore"a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State"

That is why I have a AR-15 in 5.56mm.,a Beretta in 9mm, a Colt AND a SIG in 45acp,a M1 Garand in 30-06 and in .308. All military calibers, this is so my weapons are "well regulated", in other words they are the same caliber as current military issue. I am part of the unorganized militia.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[east texas lib]

12. A Garand in .308? Sweet.

I saw one at a gun shop. The proprietor called it a "tanker Garand".

[oneshooter]

13. Mine is not a "Tanker"

It is a full size M1Garand, rebuilt to National Match standards. Krieger barrel, National Match sights, trigger and match chamber, balanced gas system w/ National Match Op Rod, bedded, and stocked with a Boyds walnut stock. Took me 6 months to build it. I shoot Master Class Hi Power. One of the few that still use a Garand.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[krispos42]

22. *drool*

n/t

[east texas lib]

29. Very cool! Rockin' it old school!(nt)

:thumbsup:

[oneshooter]

31. I find that the 30cal, 165gr FMJ boat tail

holds better against the wind at 400-500 yds.
This is one of the five I own, the earliest dating to May 1942.
I have even shot reduced course, 200 yds, with a Underwood 30 carbine, lots of fun!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[sharesunited]

18. Who are you going to war with? The ATF?

[oneshooter]

19. "Well Regulated" also meant a common caliber with the military

so that the logistics would be easier.
Shares, I have been to war, I do not treat the subject lightly.

He would have a heart attack if could see the contents of all four of my safes.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

21. God bless you man

God bless you indeed.

[taurus145]

30. Amen, Brother. n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

20. Special Agents Burnam and Bagham

Say: " That would be a rather rather poor choice of tactics "

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Rampaging mobs that are rioting, committing felony arson, and beating people to death.

A la 1992.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Perhaps you should read the Heller decision again. It is the law of the land.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Euromutt]

16. Ever hear of Russian organized crime?

Under Russian law, a citizen can apply for a permit to own a single- or double-barreled, non-repeating smoothbore weapon (i.e. generally a shotgun). After five years of owning one of those without incident, that citizen can apply for a permit for a repeating shotgun or a rifled long gun. Russian citizens cannot legally purchase a handgun, period.

And yet, Russia has had organized crime since back in the Soviet days, and since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian mob has expanded both at home and into the rest of Europe. This in spite of fairly strict gun laws.

Similarly, triads from Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland have a fairly extensive international reach as well, even though Chinese citizens cannot possess anything more than an air rifle of no more than .177 caliber, and even that requires a permit.

As for Mussolini, who do you think prohibited private citizens in Italy from possessing firearms in military calibers in the first place? Mussolini didn't want the leftists arming themselves with military-caliber hardware.

Note also that the German Weimar republic completely prohibited private firearms ownership from 1919 until 1928 (to comply with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles), and from 1928 onwards, only permitted private firearms ownership under a strict system of licensing and registration. None of which prevented the Nazi party from coming to power.

[armueller2001]

17. You do understand that

during the time that the Constitution was written, "well-regulated" meant well functioning, not strictly controlled. You could refer to a "well regulated" clock that keeps time accurately and functions well.

And the "militia" refers to both the National Guard AND private citizens. I am an able bodied man so I am part of the United States militia. I train with my firearms and am competent in their use, therefore I am well regulated.

Here's a quote from the U.S. Supreme Court in the Heller case -

"... the 'militia' in colonial America consisted of a subset of 'the people'—those who were male, able-bodied, and within a certain age range" (7) ... Although the militia consists of all able-bodied men, the federally organized militia may consist of a subset of them"

OWNED

[SteveM]

23. Please be advised that NYC's "Sullivan gun laws" were based on anti-Italian sentiment.

The method of stoking up prejudice against Italians in early 20th Century America was quite similar to that of both ante-bellum and Jim-Crow era Southern laws barring firearms for blacks.

[Euromutt]

24. A certain amount of anti-semitism, too

In fact, just good old fashioned hatred of immigrants all round. New York state law doesn't allow non-US citizens to possess any lethal weapon, permanent residents included, even though the days you get off the boat at Ellis Island and have permanent resident status three hours later are long gone.

[benEzra]

26. Yup. Some xenophobic arguments from the New York Times...

may be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x134977

starting about halfway down the first post.

Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.

---Gun-control editorial, New York Times, January, 27, 1905 (excerpt)

[eqfan592]

27. As per usual, shares, you missed the point entirely.

"The unique role of firearms in human society is that they are the only weaponry which allows the weak to defend against victimization and aggression by the strong. This obvious point is obscured to us because, of course, firearms can also be used by aggressors for unlawful violence. But the true impact of firearms on society is that only they allow victims to defend themselves on equal terms.
Visualize a confrontation that all too often occurs: a confrontation between a homicidal 200-pound man armed with a knife and a 115-pound woman. Even if the woman also has a knife, her chances of survival are minimal. Now imagine the same confrontation except that both parties are armed with firearms. The woman is still in serious danger but she is no longer a helpless victim. The man is also in serious danger if instead of retreating he persists in attacking her."

That's from section 3 of the above article. THIS is the aspect of firearms ownership that many of us have time and time again attempted to get you to understand.

[SteveM]

25. I see where some of these gun-control "studies" are STILL promulgated...

within scholarly journals. I am not surprised that anti-gun MSM outlets would re-print or publish editorial summary of this stuff, but what of the journals in which they appear? Do they peer-review anymore, or are they resigned to being nothing but punch-drunk also-rans of "social justice advocacy" within academia?

grammar.

[gorfle]

32. Excellent quote from the article:

"The use of life-threatening violence in this country is, in fact, largely restricted to a criminal class and embedded in a general pattern of criminal behavior. . . . Virtually all individuals who become involved in life-threatening violent crime have prior involvement in many types of minor (and not so minor) offenses. . . . The frequency, seriousness, and variety of offending are all strongly predictive of life-threatening violent offending. Even in the case of life-threatening domestic violence, most of these violent offenders have a history of prior involvement in criminal behavior and serious forms of violent crimes.20"

[gorfle]

33. Another great quote:

"Ordinary people virtually never kill, while the kind of people who murder often do so over things so trivial that we are left aghast not only at the fact of killing but at the inconsequential grievance that engendered it.27 The triviality of motive further confirms the extreme deviance of murderers.
To reiterate, the claim of gun prohibition advocates that most murderers are ordinary people is preposterous, devoid of even a shred of supporting evidence."

[gorfle]

34. Another great quote: Victims usually win.

"Moving from theory to ascertainable fact, it turns out that criminological studies find that, in confrontations with criminals, armed citizens usually win. Self-defense incidents involving gun-armed citizens occur three to six times more often each year than gun attacks by criminals.28 Further, Professor Lawrence Southwick concludes that in such incidents “he use of a gun by the victim significantly reduces her likelihood of being injured.”29 Another study finds that “firearms are used over half a million times in a typical year against home invasion burglars; usually the burglar flees as soon as he finds out that the victim is armed, and no shot is ever fired.”30
I add emphasis to the foregoing quote because the words emphasized represent the consistent outcome of confrontations between criminals and gun-armed citizens. The latter enjoy two immense advantages which may explain why the criminals usually flee without firing a shot. First, gunshots tend to attract police attention, a consummation as devoutly welcomed by victims as it is dreaded by the criminals. Second, roughly eighty five percent of those wounded by gunshot survive if they get medical care.31 Again, victims welcome such intervention while criminals avoid it if at all possible since it focuses police attention. Victims can satisfactorily answer police questions while criminals cannot; for them going to a hospital is just a first step toward going to prison.
In short, if victims are armed they are generally in a much better position to engage in a gunfight than are criminals."

[gorfle]

35. This is an absolutely fantastic article.

This research article, which is full of supporting citations, completely destroys the myth that "everyone is law abiding until they pull the trigger".

The article, and it's supporting research documents, clearly show that most murderers have an extensive criminal record prior to committing murder - even in domestic violence cases.

Contrary to the meme that "anyone can snap and go on a shooting rampage", as it turns out, usually it's people who already have an extensive criminal or mental illness background who snap and go on shooting rampages.

The obvious take-away from this research is that it is pointless to point gun-control efforts at law-abiding citizens, and instead they should be focused on those with past criminal and/or mental health histories.