Utah teacher fatally shot in parking lot

[MichaelHarris]

Police say an assistant preschool teacher has been shot and killed as she was leaving a Salt Lake City-area school. Unified Police Lt. Don Hutson says a 70-year-old woman has been arrested in the case. He says it's not clear whether the woman and the teacher knew each other.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010932439_apusteachershotutah.html?syndication=rss

Criminals doing criminal things, fuckin' 70 year old gangbangers! :sarcasm:

[rd_kent]

1. You seem to be unable to cope with your own personal rage, MichaelHarris....

"In my experience, the common thread in anti-gun people is rage. Either anti-gun people harbor more rage than others, or they're less able to cope with it appropriately. Because they can't handle their own feelings of rage, they are forced to use defense mechanisms in an unhealthy manner. Because they wrongly perceive others as seeking to harm them, they advocate the disarmament of ordinary people who have no desire to harm anyone.”—Dr. Sarah Thompson, MD"

[greyl]

2. Is that the Sarah Thompson from "The Righter"? nt

[MichaelHarris]

3. not an anti-gunner at all

I just bought a brand spanking new .17 cal HMR with a Nikon Scope. Gonna sight it in on Sunday. It's OK though, you can go ahead with the childish unfounded accusations if it makes you feel better. Maybe Dave will post one of his feel good posts, you know the ones, it's the one where someone blows away a criminal. I'm sure he'll be on soon. It's funny, I'm beginning to believe you guys would actually like to censor the bad gun stories. Grab some Cheetoes and gun oil, lube up man, Dave will cure your pain with a violent death story soon. You ever wonder about the irony? You guys use violent incidents to actually promote the second amendment. Irony or just plain asinine, I haven't decided yet.

[Merchant Marine]

17. Yeah, yeah, you've established your "cred"

You own a couple of plinkers, therefore you are not anti-gun.

You have, however, revealed through your postings that you are virulently anti-self defense. You support the same tired statist line that the social elites have been dishing out since the 60s.

Would you use one of your plinkers to defend yourself? Somebody else, perhaps? Do you consider yourself pure because you don't own guns in those evil "murder" calibers?

[MichaelHarris]

20. no

I'm anti-idiot, those who think the boogey man is behind every corner.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. Man up and be specific. Who exactly are you referring to?

[Tim01]

38. Stop pussy-footing around. Say what you mean. nt

[rd_kent]

40. As you wrestle with your internal rage, point out who thinks the boogey man is around every corner..

ONly you, and those like you are the ones that are afraid.

I think my post nailed it just right, MichaelHarris, you are dealing with your own rage and you have no idea how to cope with it. You should seek help, before its too late and you go nuts and kill someone with those death sticks you have.

[GreenStormCloud]

51. The boogey man is not behind EVERY corner, but he is behind some.

Two people were murdered in the little town that I live in. Our population is about 2,000. In the past 12 months there have been four murders. Two stabbings, and the latest two were blugeoned to death. All four were killed in their homes.

[slackmaster]

52. So you are a potential violent criminal who hasn't "snapped" yet

Fascinating.

[liberalmuse]

4. So people who shoot other people aren't the rage-filleds ones?

It's the people who are disgusted with the people who shoot other people. Hmmm. Makes perfect sense. :eyes:

[MichaelHarris]

5. My favorite thing about the gungion

This is the place they promote the Second Amendment by posting stories about violent acts. Isn't that about the goofiest thing you've ever seen?

[eqfan592]

13. Yep, that's all we do here is post stories about violence.

We never, EVER, post actual statistical data to support our claims. Oh, wait a minute, that's actually what we do most. You're just totally full of shit, as per usual. Sorry, my mistake!

[Euromutt]

22. I quote from Skinner's sticky...

Discussion of gun-related public policy issues or the use of firearms for self-defense belong in the Guns Forum.

Personal-interest discussion about guns and weaponry should be posted in the Outdoor Life Group.

"The use of firearms for self-defense" by definition is going to involve the threat or use of violence. It's rather like complaining that there's nary a thread in "General Discussion: Presidency" that isn't about Obama. I could try to sanitize the topic by insisting that self-defense involves "use of force" rather than "violent acts," but what difference does that really make?

Maybe it's because I'm originally from the Netherlands, and I perhaps have a somewhat different cultural frame of reference, but I don't consider the word "violence" to carry any odium in and of itself; the odium derives from context. Thst said, I recall reading a news magazine article in which a professional army officer made some statement along the lines of "The armed forces are a business like any other, except that our product is violence" and the defense ministry PR guy present hurriedly interjected "Combat power; our product is combat power." But no matter which specific term you use--whether you call it violence, force or combat power--the fact is that both national defense and self-defense involves threatening or inflicting physical harm on other human beings. Whether that harm is the lesser of two evils, or simply an evil, depends on the context.

And we can disagree on the specifics, and have a polite but frank exchange of views on that, but your habit of patronizingly casting aspersions on the intelligence, sanity and moral fiber of those who don't share your views doesn't foster such a discussion.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. Violent crimes are often only stopped with a violent response.

[rd_kent]

43. Riiiiggghht! You can try, but you have already revealed yourself for what you are.

You are free to stop coming here and posting your nonsense anytime, but methinks you have a bit of a masochistic streak in you...you just love the abuse too much.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. I'm disgusted with the people who murder other people, by whatever method.

I blame the person, not the tool

If the murderer uses, say, a Mercedes (or a wire garotte, for example). I wouldn't denounce drivers of automobiles or hardware store customers upon hearing about the crime.

There's the difference.

[Euromutt]

41. False dichotomy

Who says there's only one category of people who have a problem containing their aggression?

[rd_kent]

42. Actually, YOU make no sense.

Perhaps my post hit a nerve with you too. Read it again and perhaps you will understand. Its pretty clear and makes perfect sense.

[MichaelHarris]

6. Also

don't start the drive-by nonsense, it really is tiresome. I have work to do and quite frankly don't take the time to respond to all the snarky-ass meaningless responses. if you don't like the post don't respond, if you don't like the poster block them. Pretty soon all you'll have is good shooting posts.

I have to post game photos from tonight so don't worry, it's not a drive-by.


©Michael Harris

[rd_kent]

44. The old "I have work to do, that was not a drive-by post"........ HAHAHAHA!

[beevul]

7. Another "gun free zone" success?

In other news, 290 plus million firearms in the hands of 80 million plus Americans, were not used today to shoot or kill anyone.


And that will be true tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that...R

[MichaelHarris]

23. No

this one is another CWP holder success story. The shooter has a CWP. Man we are seeing more and more CWPs shooting innocent people every day.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. That's odd I'm sure you post everyone of them here and you don't do that every day.

Maybe you are exaggerating a bit. A little journalistic license it would seem.

[Euromutt]

35. Let me congratulate you on your magnificent weasel wording there

Man we are seeing more and more CWPs shooting innocent people every day.

Beautifully phrased, in the manner it insinuates that the reason "we are seeing" more CCW permits holders commit homicide is because it's occurring more frequently, without actually committing to making the claim that it is occurring more frequently. A very plausible alternate explanation is, of course, that "we are seeing more and more" of these stories because certain people with an agenda to pursue are making an increased effort to draw the public's attention to these incidents, even though the frequency of the incidents themselves isn't increasing.

[SteveM]

36. Do you have data to support the contention that CWPs more likely to shoot...

innocent people than non-CWPs? Can you compare criminal uses by CWP-holders with the population in general?

Like a previous poster has alluded to, you seem to be quite angry at something. Can you be more specific, taking into account the answers you might provide to the above questions?

[rd_kent]

45. See, your rage is blinding you to the facts. Get some help, really.

[PavePusher]

59. The shooter had a CWP?

Not stated in the O.P. article. May I ask where you got that info?

Edit: Disregard, I caught your next post link.

[proteus_lives]

65. No, we're not.

But you're ok with emotional exaggeration.

[rrneck]

8. That's a tragedy.

There's probably some history behind this. The shooter may have been 70 years old, but her age doesn't guarantee she's an upstanding citizen.

What's really entertaining is watching you try to position yourself as a collector-of-esoteric-but-not-too-dangerous-unique-firearms while simultaneously making noises like an emotional-self-righteous-knee-jerk-gun-grabbing-Brady-bunch-flunky so you can stir up shit.

I'll bet this thread'll go over a hundred posts of wasted bandwidth.

[MichaelHarris]

11. Don't worry

someone will post a "gang member shot dead" feel good story for you. It'll all be better little one, someone will tell you a bedtime dead burglar story.

[rd_kent]

46. I can see the rage starting to bubble to the surface.

[rrneck]

54. Why did you start this thread? nt

[MichaelHarris]

24. Does her

CWP guarantee she's an upstanding citizen? Quoting you. "The shooter may have been 70 years old, but her age doesn't guarantee she's an upstanding citizen."

Fuck that had to hurt, maybe some ointment on that burn may help. "She is a concealed weapons permit holder, and her most recent address is in Taylorsville." http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700005762/Teacher-fatally-shot-in-parking-lot.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. No one here says that a CCW permit guarantees anything about a person. Nice try though.

[Euromutt]

32. Well, it IS, if not a guarantee, a strong indication of a few things

You can reasonably assume that a CCW permit holder has no prior felony convictions, has not been involuntarily committed to mental health treatment by order of a court, or is currently subject to a restraining order prohibiting him or her from coming near an intimate partner, his or her own child, or any child of an intimate partner.

In short, a CCW permit is pretty decent indicator that the holder has kept his or her nose clean up to that point. But as the disclaimers on the investment fund ads say, "past performance is no guarantee of future results." You cannot predict with utter certainty that someone won't commit a violent crime on the basis that they've gone several decades without doing so, even though you can judge that it's highly unlikely.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. True on all counts.

[SteveM]

39. Ah, sSo you get pleasure out of hurting others? That is your motivation?

"Fuck that had to hurt, maybe some ointment on that burn may help."

That is your quote. You have some extreme rage problems, and you seem to get off to hurting others. Perhaps if you were honest about just what is causing the rage, you could stop it. Trying to attach a societal/class explanation to this rage is cumbersome and doesn't ring true.

[rrneck]

53. Why did you start this thread? nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. I wonder if it would less of a tragedy if the murder weapon was a Chevy or Honda?

And how ageist of you, as well. The guy who cold-bloodedly executed a store clerk in Boston recently was 67.
With a long, long list of felony convictions.

[MichaelHarris]

12. quick, off the top of your head

post 10 stories where a Honda was used as a murder weapon intentionally. Wanna trade this apple for an orange? Heyyyyy thanks for playing, have this nice parting gift.

[eqfan592]

14. Hey, real quick....

..post 10 reasons why it makes any fucking difference at all if he COULD find 10 stories? Heyyyy, thanks for playing. Such a sad, strange little creature you are. Ignorant, idiotic reply in 3,2,1....

[MichaelHarris]

15. hahahahaha

anger problem?

[rd_kent]

48. No, MichaelHarris, just YOUR rage and your inability to cope with it.

[eqfan592]

60. Bingo. He couldn't project harder if he tried. (nt)

[rd_kent]

47. Yup, every post only serves to validate what I posted upthread: you are unable to cope with your

rage and take it out on others. You really should seek help.

[PavePusher]

66. I don't understand what frequency has to do with it.

Just because people don't often think of cars as weapons, doesn't mean the potential is not there.

[friendly_iconoclast]

67. Even if I would post such stories, would that mean Honda drivers were more dangerous than they are?

Here's a strong hint for you:

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. Until you can demonstrate that CCW holders are statistically more dangerous than
they actually are, your "CCW-holder-goes-bad" posts are simply sad events.

Or in a phrase familiar from your own profession:

"If it bleeds, it leads"

[Merchant Marine]

16. That's odd, schools are gun free zones

n/t

[MichaelHarris]

18. you're right,

they are until a law-abiding citizen with a firearm snaps and goes into one and starts shooting. Which came first, the gun free zone or the law-abiding citizen with a gun who goes a little funny in the head?

[Merchant Marine]

19. You don't know anything about the background of the incident.

You claim to be a journalist, if so you should know it's a little early to be rolling the blood of the dead to make your point. You don't know if she was law-abiding or not.

I however, can safely conclude that the gun-free zone once again failed catastrophically. They obviously need bigger signs, maybe with bold capital letters to show that they're really serious.

And your question is silly. Obviously the school was made a gun-free zone first, as that bill was passed years before this incident occurred. I would think a journalist would be a little better with timelines.

[MichaelHarris]

21. so

the gun-free zone came before crazy old people? I had a grandmother and she was way crazy before gun free school zones became posted. Do you live on the blue planet, the one with water?

Also, I never see you making the same comment to the "good shootings", what's up with that? Does the poster of the "good shootings" know all the facts when they post? I know, I know, you only want to see the good shootings. But see, other things do happen in America, good people grab guns and kill innocent people. You can run and hide from that all day, Dave can post his "Support the Second Amendment using violent acts" posts all day and you would be happy. I just like to add a little more reality for you guys. Not everyone stands in front of a mirror and plays quick draw or fantasizes about the day they get to shoot a bad guy. Some actually grab a gun to solve a simple problem.

Also she is a CWP holder but I bet you didn't want to know that either.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. It is "righteous shootings" not "good shootings", at least try and get it right.

[Euromutt]

28. Regarding the distinction between "good" and "bad" shootings

You're missing a rather important point here, which is that it is generally illegal to shoot people, and thus the default assumption is that if one person shoots another, it was unlawful unless and until determined to be otherwise. By contrast, if a shooting gets reported as having been found to be justified in self-defense or defense of others, it means that the local police and/or prosecutor's office (who may reasonably be assumed to be familiar with the details even of the incident if we aren't) have examined the situation and come to that conclusion.

Not everyone stands in front of a mirror and plays quick draw or fantasizes about the day they get to shoot a bad guy.

Would you care to expound as to exactly what you mean by that? Are you suggesting that some or all of the pro-RKBA crowd on this forum (or indeed anyone) do these things? If so, name names and provide evidence. If not, why don't you keep your self-righteous fantasies to yourself?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. So what solution do you propose to fix this "problem" as you see it?

[safeinOhio]

50. We could restrict elder CCW holders(66 and on medicare)

to having a note from a doctor every few years ruling out dementia. This appears to be related to divorce. Many violent shootings involve divorce. It might be worth looking into restriction on those involved in cases until settled if there is any reason to think they may become violent.

I have to commend Dave for posting a non-name calling post and actually call for ideas to solve problems. Much like Obamas' talk with Republican Reps. Once you raise the rhetoric on an issue there is little room to work together on solutions. I'm afraid that is very true in this forum. I see a lot of angry people calling other angry people angry. How about stop the name calling and admit problems and come together to solve them? On both sides of gun issues.

[rd_kent]

56. Would you agree to that being applied to drivers licenses, major purchases, etc?

[safeinOhio]

57. Oh hell yes and I'm an old fart.

Many seniors and young are more than capable of driving and carrying a gun. Some are not. It is a problem that needs to be looked at and solved.

[rd_kent]

58. Well, you may have a point. I think that the elderly operating motor vehicles is MORE of a problem

than them getting a CCW and carrying a gun, but I see your point and it is valid.

[rd_kent]

49. Seems like you are describing yourself, MichaelHarris: YOU are a law-abiding citizen with a firearm

and you seem like you might snap any time and start killing people. You should get help to deal with all of that rage.

[rrneck]

55. Now, now, the internet emboldened his bullshit. nt

[michreject]

34. I would bet that the victim wished she had a gun

to defend herself at the end of her life.

Don't bother replying. You'll spew your usual bullshit.

[Tim01]

37. This story is just weird. nt

[Tejas]

61. mugshot

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/tetyana-nikitina-1292010-salt-lake-city-ut/

[Tejas]

62. 10 rounds in a .38?

http://www.newser.com/article/d9dhtt4o0/police-utah-teacher-fatally-shot-in-school-parking-lot-70-year-old-woman-arrested.html

Police recovered five shell casings in the parking lot and five bullets remained in the .38 caliber handgun, Hutson said.

------------------------------------------------


I'm not that familiar with .38's, can someone elnlighten me?

[ManiacJoe]

63. Other reports say the shooter

emptied the gun into the car/driver, reloaded, and continued to fire more shots as the car rolled away.

[benEzra]

69. Reporters don't generally know that a .38 and a .380 are two different things.

I've seen many news reports in which a reporter or editor dropped the zero and described a .380 ACP as a ".38". That may have been the case here.

Or, she may have reloaded, who knows.

[Tim01]

64. Does anybody know yet why she killed her?

I know the shooter is related to the victims ex/getting divorced husband. But that's it.

[Euromutt]

71. Deseret News says the shooter was the vic's ex-mother-in-law

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700005927/Police-say-teacher-was-killed-by-former-mother-in-law.html

Though if you read the article, it states that "police say they believe Jankowski is Hanson's son," Dale Jankowski being the vic's ex-husband. Jankowski and the late Ms Nikitina was apparently still fighting out the divorce, and it looks to have been pretty messy, with Nikitina getting two protective restraining orders against Jankowski a few years back.

I'm speculating, but perhaps Hanson so badly wanted her son to get custody of the children that she went about it in the most radical fashion possible: by murdering their mother. With a name like Tetyana Nikitina, there's a good possibility the victim doesn't have family in the United States, which would presumably make Jankowski the default person to get custody.

[benEzra]

68. And what percentage of murders, pray tell, are committed by 70-year-old females with no priors?

Hmmmm?

And how does that percentage compare to the fraction committed by 18 to 24 year old males with prior criminal records?

[GreenStormCloud]

70. Statistically, CCWers are still far, far safer with guns than the general public.

There are about 5 million of us. Out of that many, there will be a few rotten apples. The original poster wishes to use the very few to condemn the entire group, such is the level of his hate. We who have CCW take control of our lives and refuse to be victims of violent crime. In doing that we reject victimhood which is a status the he seems to cherish, therefore he hates us.