Illinois Dems at it again

[oneshooter]

I swear, the Democratic Party is it's own worst enemy!!

HB0180/ HB5734
HANDGUN DEALER LICENSING ACT

Creates the Handgun Dealer Licensing Act. Provides for the regulation of handgun dealers through licensure by the Department of State Police. Provides that no person may sell or otherwise transfer, expose for sale or transfer, or have in his or her possession with the intent to sell or transfer, any concealable firearm without being licensed under the Act. Provides, however, that the prohibition does not apply to a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of concealable firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or as a hobby, or who sells all or part of his or her personal collection of firearms. Sets forth provisions concerning application, fees, duration of licensure, license retention requirements, submissions to the Department, penalties, revocation, and suspension. Grants rulemaking authority to the Department and provides that for the purpose of determining compliance with the Act, the Act may be enforced by any municipality in which a licensee is located or, if a licensee is not located in a municipality, by the county in which a licensee is located

This bill is by a Democrat: Representative Deborah L. Graham (D)
78th District

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=180&GAID=10&GA=96&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=40197&SessionID=76


Well it ain't my state, so have at it!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[xchrom]

1. Good -- I like that. Nt

[TheWraith]

8. Would you like only being able to buy a car from a new car dealer?

And being arrested as a criminal if you sold your old car to a friend? It's not like these laws are going to prevent straw buyers--that's already illegal, and they're unable or unwilling to catch them.

[onehandle]

25. So guns = cars?

Great! Let's regulate, tax and register guns like cars.

[LAGC]

30. Driving is a privilege, keeping and bearing arms is a right.

That pesky Second Amendment at play again. Don't know anywhere in the Bill of Rights saying you have an inalienable right to own/drive a car.

[onehandle]

33. You are correct. Guns are the only protected consumer item in the Constitution. nt

[cowman]

39. It just

must piss you off that gun control is dying and the SCOTUS is going to take it off life support. Too Bad So Sad

[Statistical]

43. Would you feel better if govt provided them for free instead?

Then they wouldn't be a "consumer item".

[AtheistCrusader]

45. If it makes you feel any better, I'm fully capable of 'growing my own'

so not just a consumer item.

I can make 'the good stuff' too. It's not hard.

[TheWraith]

46. Does that mean you have a CNC mill?

That would be awesome.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Small projects mill/drill/lathe

But people make this kind of stuff with a lot less than the equipment at my disposal.

A middle school metal shop can crank out M60's, properly motivated.

[Callisto32]

55. Easier than semi-autos, I have heard.

[Callisto32]

54. Actually, its ARMS.

Not guns.

Thanks for playing.

[lepus]

62. Just like printing presses. NT

[TheWraith]

47. Actually, cars and guns operate on very similar legal frameworks...

...except that the laws regarding guns are much more strict. In most areas, you don't need any kind of documentation for either unless you plan on taking it out in public. However, you DO require a background check to buy a gun, while you don't for a car. And in some places like New York, California, Illinois, etcetera, you need a license to even own a gun, no matter what you intend to do with it. Not the case with a car.

[onehandle]

49. You have to have a license to operate a car.

I suppose you could buy a car, drive it home and let your license expire, or get someone else to drive it for you.

I've heard crazier things.

[gorfle]

57. No license is required to operate a car.

No license is required to operate a car on private property.

[GreenStormCloud]

50. We already do, basically.

You can buy a car unregistered, without a driver's license, if the vehicle is going to stay on private property and not be driven on public roads. Examples would be race cars or ranch work trucks. You can buy a gun and take it home and keep it home in the same manner.

If you want to take the car on the highway, it must be registered and have plates, and you must have a driver's license. With guns, to take a gun on you in public you need a license.

Varies somewhat from state to state, but in most states it works that way.

[Callisto32]

53. I'm pretty sure I didn't pay 11% excise on my car....

Besides, that stuff only applies to the use of public roads. It does NOT have to do with private use/ownership of vehicles.

[gorfle]

56. They already are.

Great! Let's regulate, tax and register guns like cars.

They already are. If you want to purchase a car and drive it on private property, you do not need to register it with the state, nor buy insurance, nor have a driver's license, nor put a tag on it.

Only if you want to drive a car on public roads are you required to register it, have insurance, a license, and tag.

It is virtually the same for firearms.

[shadowrider]

63. Actually, that argument works against you

IF the vehicle is NOT removed from the property, you do NOT have to register, do NOT have to pay taxes and do NOT have to have your vehicle regulated. IF you take your car out on a public road, you, by law, have to do those things. An example is a pickup used stricly for farm purposes and that vehicle never leaves the farm.

So you're saying, in treating guns like cars, as long as they don't leave the property, it doesn't have to be taxed or regulated, is that correct?

Just curious

[SoCalNative]

2. I don't understand the problem

other businesses have to be licensed.

[Abq_Sarah]

3. They're already licensed

By the feds. It's been a requirement since 1968.

[SoCalNative]

26. Of which the Feds get the license fee

State government can take in additional money from a state license fee.

[oneshooter]

35. They are also licensed by the state. This

is an additional license that will be issued by the state. At an additional $300 per year.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[PavePusher]

4. How many licences must one have...

to engage in a Constitutionally protected Civil Right?

[slackmaster]

5. Gun dealers have to be federally licensed. Businesses in IL already have to be licensed to operate.

It's just a way of extorting more money out of people who want to engage in a lawful business. It has nothing to do with public safety.

[-..__...]

10. For one thing...

the law contains a provision that mandates registration and we don't play that game... not now, not ever...

Section 30. Submission to Department.
16 (a) A licensed dealer must, within 24 hours after making a
17 sale or transfer of a concealable firearm to a person who is
18 not licensed as a handgun dealer, submit a report concerning
19 that sale to the Department. The report must contain the
20 following information:
21 (1) the date of the sale or transfer;
22 (2) the identity and address of the dealer;
23 (3) the name, address, age, and occupation of the
24 transferee;
25 (4) the price of the firearm; and



1 (5) the type, description, and number of the firearm.
2 (b) All records of the reports submitted under this Section
3 must be maintained by the Department on a computer database
4 capable of allowing the retrieval of information for each
5 dealer and each transferee. The computer database must also
6 contain a listing of each county or municipality that prohibits
7 one or more types of concealable firearm, and the type or types
8 of concealable firearms that are prohibited in that county or
9 municipality. Information in the database must be made
10 available to any law enforcement agency responsible for the
11 enforcement of any federal, State, or local law or ordinance
12 relating to firearms, and to any licensed dealer who requests
13 information relating to a person who is seeking to purchase one
14 or more firearms from that dealer. Except as specifically
15 provided in this Section, information in the database is deemed
16 the confidential record of the Department and is not subject to
17 disclosure under any other law.
18 (c) Any licensee who is required to keep a record of
19 transfer under subsection (b) of Section 3 of the Firearm
20 Owners Identification Card Act must report any transfer of a
21 firearm that occurred within the 24-month period immediately
22 preceding the effective date of this Act to the Department no
23 later than 30 days after the effective date of this Act. The
24 report must contain that information required by subsection (b)
25 of Section 3 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. The
26 Department must include this report in the computer database

http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=76&GA=96&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=180&GAID=10&LegID=40197&SpecSess=&Session=

[Saturday]

6. Sounds good to me. You can keep all the guns in Texas. nt

[cowman]

21. Well

as we all know that ain't happening. Let's see, Chicago has a total handgun ban, which is going down soon, yet there are 1000's of illegal guns they only people who are disarmed are the law abiding citizens which puts them at a great disadvantage to the criminals. But you don't care about that do you?

[Peter1x9]

22. exactly.

n/t

[oneshooter]

34. But...... but........ but........ I WANT them!!! n/t

[oneshooter]

7. If you go the the full text you find this.

Section 30. Submission to Department.
16 (a) A licensed dealer must, within 24 hours after making a
17 sale or transfer of a concealable firearm to a person who is
18 not licensed as a handgun dealer, submit a report concerning
19 that sale to the Department. The report must contain the
20 following information:
21 (1) the date of the sale or transfer;
22 (2) the identity and address of the dealer;
23 (3) the name, address, age, and occupation of the
24 transferee;
25 (4) the price of the firearm; and




HB0180 Engrossed - 8 - LRB096 03300 ASK 13318 b



1 (5) the type, description, and number of the firearm.
2 (b) All records of the reports submitted under this Section
3 must be maintained by the Department on a computer database
4 capable of allowing the retrieval of information for each
5 dealer and each transferee.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=76&GA=96&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=180&GAID=10&LegID=40197&SpecSess=&Session=

So they want full registration of all gun sales.
Like I said, not my state.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[X_Digger]

9. Oh look, it's HR45 for IL..

I feel sorry for IL residents.

[oneshooter]

12. The truly sad part is that it is written and sponsered

by DEMOCRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will they ever learn?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Abq_Sarah]

14. I'm really tired

Of politicians who view their constituents as ignorant little peons who can be ignored because they know what's best for us.

[X_Digger]

15. *sigh* Unfortunately, probably not until smacked down by SCOTUS. n/t

[dashrif]

13. worth a 1000

[SoCalNative]

27. And I still don't see the problem

you have to register your car. And you should have to register your gun too.

[oneshooter]

29. Owning a vehicle is not a right enumerated in the Constitution. n/t

[cowman]

41. Here in Nye County

NV we don't register our weapons, the local govt. and the sheriff trusts it's citizens unlike CA.

[PavePusher]

42. You do NOT "have to register your car".

Unless you plan to drive it in public areas (public roads). Which is a regulated privilige, not a Constitutionally enumerated Civil Right.

You do know what a Right is, don't you?

[GreenStormCloud]

51. If the car stays on private property, you don't have to registar it.

Same with guns. If the guns stays on private property, it doesn't have to registared.

[gorfle]

58. Not true.

you have to register your car. And you should have to register your gun too.

You do not have to register cars that are used on private property. Nor do you have to have a license, nor insurance, nor a tag and registration.

Same for firearms.

[beevul]

59. No, you DON'T have to register your car.

Registration is only required IF a vehicle is to be used on public roads.

Race cars and farm trucks? Nope.

[AtheistCrusader]

60. There's a federal law against creating this sort of registry.

( Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (2) (a)) being: No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.




IL is dumb.

[krispos42]

65. What other private property should be registered?

How about that computer you're typing on? How about that modem that connects you to the Internet? How about your printer? Blank DVDs and CDs?

Got any metalworking tools? Propane tanks?

[Abq_Sarah]

11. This is rather interesting

It appears that not only is this a revenue generating move, it's also intended as a state registration database for every firearm sold with the new owners, name, address and occupation. It is fully accessible to any law enforcement agency that wants to see who owns what weapons in their districts.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=76&GA=96&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=180&GAID=10&LegID=40197&SpecSess=&Session=

[dashrif]

16. now

they will know if a drug house has guns in it when they serve a warrant and wont have to worry so much..................... oh wait

[damntexdem]

17. Hurrah for Graham and company!

Of course, the SCOTUS may take away all powers of states and localities to keep us safe from guns; but in the meantime, go for it Illinois!!!!!!

[Abq_Sarah]

18. How does that keep you safe?

Does it require criminals to register their guns with the state?

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. Well, look at you...having the temerity to muddy the ideal with the real!

We mustn't question how it is supposed to work, we're just supposed to believe that it will...somehow.

[oneshooter]

32. Criminals can not be made to register arms kept illegally

It is a violation of their Fifth Amendment rights. Self Incrimination, ya know?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[X_Digger]

37. Ahh, but that's self-incrimination, per US v. Haynes

So the law can't force felons to register their guns, per existing precedent.

Damn that pesky fifth amendment.. maybe we can throw that one out, too.

:sarcasm:

[Euromutt]

61. It would unconstitutional if it did

Haynes v. United States, 1968: the SCOTUS ruled that a person in illegal possession of a firearm could not be prosecuted for failing to register it, as this would violate the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

That ruling pretty much makes any firearms registry utterly pointless.

[PavePusher]

19. Does registration keep ANYONE from commiting a crime...

with or without a firearm? How so?

[SoCalNative]

28. I couldn't care less

whether it keeps anyone from committing a crime.

But it DOES provide information for a responsible party if someone is harmed by their actions.

[Abq_Sarah]

31. Harmed?

In what way?

[rrneck]

36. How authoritarian of you... nt

[-..__...]

38. Then you should have no problem with...

a national fingerprint/DNA database.

I mean, it WOULD provide information about a responsible party if someone is harmed by their actions... wouldn't it now?

Think about any and all unsolved crimes that take place each and every day that could be traced back to the perpetrator?

Tell you what... you agree to have your fingerprints/DNA placed on file and I'll agree to register my firearms.... deal?

If not for yourself, at least think of the children!

[PavePusher]

40. Again, how so?

[GreenStormCloud]

52. Please explain how it helps.

If you already know the responsible party, you don't need the registration info.

If you don't know the responsible party, you are extremely unlikely to have the gun so you have nothing to trace and the registration database is useless.

[-..__...]

20. If at first you don't succeed...

try, try fail, fail again...

Illinois handgun dealer licensing bill is back from the dead . . . again. (HB180)


"How long do you think I have to liquidate my hand gun inventory? I will keep selling long guns but I'm not going to jump through hoops for hand guns. There is no profit in them to make it worth while."
--A downstate gun dealer questioning an NRA representative this week.

Now, no one get too alarmed, but it does seem that zombie gun control bills are beginning to rise from the dead in Springfield. The first lumbering corpse to claw its way out of the cold, mossy ground of the legislative cemetery known as the Rules Committee is House Bill 180, the "Handgun Dealer Licensing Act. This is the same bill gun owners have been stopping for years, over and over and over--but it always comes back.

8<------ Snip

Even veteran lobbyists were surprised that the bill would be called to the floor so soon in the legislative session, with some wondering openly whether the bill's sponsor, Representative Deborah Graham (D-Oak Park) has taken time to build support for it. Some have suggested that some legislators are in a hurry to create any kind of victory they can as the McDonald v. Chicago Supreme Court decision looms.

http://www.examiner.com/x-17034-Chicago-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d10-Illinois-HB180-State-Police-Licensing-of-Gun-Dealers


"Go for it Illinois!!!!!!"... indeed. :eyes:

[SteveM]

44. It's called "whack-a-mole"...

an expression used by some 2A advocates who see the same damned thing poke its head above ground, and see the same damned thing get whacked.

[bossy22]

24. they won't

they will take away some as they should. No more handguns bans

[Katya Mullethov]

64. Bless their hearts

That's grandmother for " My grandson is a dumb ass " .