Triggernometry - The "Center Mass" Myth and Ending a Gunfight

[shadowrider]

Surviving a gunfight isn't what you think it is. Don’t let conventional wisdom get you killed. A well place round to "center mass" in your attacker may not take him out of the fight. Lots of people stay in the fight after "center mass" hits, and some even win it. If you expect to win your gunfight, you have to make sure that you have effectively ended the threat of your attacker. One, two or even several well placed "center mass" shots may not do what you think it will, and learning to recognize this before you gunfight may save your life.

http://forums.gunsamerica.com/yaf_postst14_The-Center-Mass-Myth-and-Ending-a-Gunfight.aspx?c=0301

[Katya Mullethov]

1. "and his attacker is alive today "

Is he out of jail yet ?

[shadowrider]

2. I hope not

[Bonhomme Richard]

3. Can anyone say Mozambique Drill. n/t

[Statistical]

14. To be politically correct the military now calls it "defeat drill" but I agree

[spin]

4. Handguns are not as powerful as portrayed in the movies ...

If a person is shot once with a handgun, chances are he will survive.

If a person is shot once with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot, chances are he will die.

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Excellent article.

There are no guarantees in a gunfight.

[Tim01]

6. This is why cops shoot people to pieces any more.

Cops understand that if they quit shooting before the badguy is down he may kill somebody. They stop shooting when he is laying on the ground no longer attacking.
Pistol bullets, and to a lesser extent, rifle bullets are not reliable stoppers.

[proteus_lives]

8. Especially if the person is hopped up on something.

Cocaine, meth, PCP. That will keep a person on their feet as well.

[Tim01]

10. Recent after action report.

.45 HP bullet went through a lung, the heart, other lung, and the badguy kept on fighting, for a while.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. I always thought the Mozambique Drill included firing at the pelvis for this reason.

Center mass, even CNS hits, including the brain may not stop someone sufficiently hopped up on XYZ drug, before that person can inflict enough damage to you, to render a mortal wound on your attacker moot.

Break the pelvis, and they can be hopped up on ANYTHING, and it won't matter, because the skeleton will no longer mechanically support the weight of their body. Break the pelvis in two and the person IS going down. They may crawl after you, but they go down.

Downside of course is, while the pelvis is strong, yet brittle, it's a difficult target.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. The Mozambique drill is two center mass, then one to the brain.

The reason is that after two solid hits from a serious caliber gun to center-mass, if the bad guy isn't down, he won't go down from a third hit to center mass. You need to take out the CNS.

Switching targeting from center-mass after two shots to the pelvis area is not a bad idea. It is a larger target than the brain, and less well protected.

Of course, during all of this I would be shooting aimed rapid fire until the threat is neutralized.

Most people, including most bad guys, will go down after only a couple of hits. The guy that can stay in the fight until he is hit 106 times is an extreme rarity. I don't carry that much ammo.

[oneshooter]

21. The Mozambique drill was developed because the bad guys

were wearing body armour. Two in the chest to put him down. One in the head to make sure he stays there.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[ManiacJoe]

7. Nothing new there, but it is a great refresher.

[proteus_lives]

9. Nice article.

Reminds me of what my dad taught me.

[flamin lib]

11. Center of mass works for training because it is the largest

target. Aim for CM and shoot lots of time, the impact points will probably be 12-18" group. Three rounds in a 3" pattern is one trauma, three in a 10" pattern is three separate traumas. Even so, shock response minimizes the immediate effect of being shot--both sides have a lot of adrenalin pumping ya' know.

The only real value to the article is that shooting once and quitting isn't a good idea. If you are unfortunate (or foolish) enough to find yourself in a gunfight don't stop 'til you're out of ammunition. Yeah, it sounds good to hold three in reserve but that's for Blackwater types not us real people.

Then there's anatomy. Once a projectile encounters something it changes behavior radically. Buy a box of FMJ tracers and dump 'em all into a target real fast and watch where they go -- ever'where!!! You can't plan what damage any single round will do, so use lots of 'em. Hell, once you've committed to violence the repercussion don't change much.

Anecdote about a Texas Highway Patrolman who shot an attacker three times with his revolver; he was reprimanded by the watch captain who told him, "Son, they call 'em a six shooter for a reason."

[shadowrider]

12. "Son, they call 'em a six shooter for a reason."

-- snort --

[lepus]

13. Someone has probably said it before, but,,,

Ammo is cheap, life is expensive. Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting till the threat is gone.

While some may argue that emptying a mag into a person is excessive and will cause problems in court. That is exactly how the government trains LEO when they have to shoot to kill.

If the governments stance is to shoot often ,,,

[Statistical]

17. Shoot to stop not shoot to kill.

The goal is to stop the threat.
The threat may die or may not die.
In many situations it may not be possible to use enough force to stop without using enough force to kill.
Still the goal should be to stop the threat.

Police are not taught to shoot to kill.

Police are trained on how to "shoot to stop".
Military is trained on how to "shoot to stop".

Using the term "shoot to kill" is inaccurate.

[lepus]

20. Hmm, I would have to look up the current convential weapons manual for the navy, its been a while.

But deadly force was what was taught, not stopping force. How it was applied when it was necessary was up to us. The general command position was that if we ever had to shoot someone, he better not be getting back up again.

I am not sure about how lawmen are taught, but for the most part shooting to stop is shooting to kill. I would think that police are taught to use center of mass shots also, and not to stop with just one. Repetitive shots into the center of mass are likely to cause death.

A gun is not a pacification device. When it is used against someone, the user knows, or at least should know, that death is likely to result. If you are using a form of non lethal force, you can try to 'stop' someone, otherwise you are just fooling yourself.

Shooting to kill is not inaccurate.

Just being honest.

[DissedByBush]

16. My guess as to what I would do is

keep pulling the trigger until he's down.

I doubt it would be a cold, calculated decision to do that after having read this article.

Probably more panic and adrenaline until my mind registers that the threat is gone.

[slackmaster]

19. The remake of the movie The Crazies puts a new light on use of guns on zombies

In most traditional zombie movies, it's necessary to shoot them in the head in order to stop them. But The Crazies are different - They die from gunshot wounds, blunt trauma, fire, etc. just as normal humans do.

I recommend seeing it. Don't expect great character development or intellectual depth. It's a campy "small group of people struggle for survival in a zombie apocalypse" film with all the cliches you'd expect. But it's well made and engaging.

[SsevenN]

22. The article

seems a little contradictory. First he says there is no formula for stopping the BG, listing various anecdotal evidence to support this assertation. Then he finishes up with this:

2-3 hits with a .45
4-6 with a .40
5-8 with a 9mm

This advice not only flys in the face of his previous assertations, but is also dangerously based in superstition and obvious favoritism towards his preffered cartridge.

I agree with just about every thing else he says. But no Authority of Self Defense would disagree either, the rest of the information is rather redundant.

But his "opinion" on calibers is obviously lacking statistical support, or even rudementary fact finding.

[Euromutt]

23. I thought the title rather oversold it

I mean, you read the title about the supposed "'Center Mass' Myth," and when you read it, you find that there's no myth. That is, all the article tells you is that you should still aim for the center of mass, just keep putting rounds into it until your assailant falls down. Sorry, but big frickin' deal, Mr. Higginbotham, tell me something I didn't know.