Should Virginia "force" elementary students to learn gun safety?...

[spin]

PERSPECTIVE: No need to force a gun-safety class on elementary school children

A proposal to force the State Board of Education to create a class teaching gun safety to elementary school children goes too far.

The bill, which passed the Senate Education and Health Committee Thursday, would make such a program optional in elementary schools.

First of all, since when did gun safety become the purview of elementary schools? We understand the supposed motive — teaching children not to touch guns found in their homes — but do we really want our public school system teaching our children about guns?

***snip***

Originally, the class would have been modeled on one taught by the National Rifle Association. Thankfully, that political heatpacker won’t be getting a foothold in our school doors — the bill was changed to use the National Crime Prevention Council’s program instead.

Still, by making gun safety a subject akin to abc’s and 123’s, the Virginia Senate is pushing a political hot potato onto our children’s laps.
That, we could do without.

News & Messenger
Prince William County

http://www2.starexponent.com/cse/news/opinion/article/perspective_no_need_to_force_a_gun-safety_class_on_elementary_school_childr/53487/

And what is the National Crime Prevention Council's program?

Gun Safety: Grades 4 - 5

Objective - To explore the impact on society when a person dies prematurely from gun violence - To develop . . .
Objective

* To explore the impact on society when a person dies prematurely from gun violence
* To develop research and critical-thinking skills


Activity

* Discuss with students the dangers of guns. Review what they should do if they find a gun.

* Share with them that when people die from being shot, they can no longer do good things for their families or for society.

* Assign students to groups of four or five, and have them select a historical figure who was killed by gun violence. Possiblilities include Martin Luther King, Jr.; John F. Kennedy; Abraham Lincoln; and Mahatma Gandhi. Have each group research the person they chose and list the positive contributions he or she made to society.

* Ask students to predict how these individuals might have continued their work if they hadn't been killed by gun violence.

* Have each group present a biography of the individual they researched and their ideas of what the individual could have done if he or she had not died from gun violence.

* Have each member of the group write a diary entry that takes place five years after the person died and shares what the person could have done if the person had lived. The students may choose to write the entry from the point of view of the individual or of a third party who had been influenced by the individual's work (e.g., someone who heard Martin Luther King, Jr. give a speech).

* Extend this into a service project by having students design a memorial for people killed by gun violence. They may choose to plant a tree or design a peace quilt to display in the school's lobby.
http://www.ncpc.org/topics/by-audience/law-enforcement/teaching-children/activities-and-lesson-plans/gun-safety-grades-4-5

[hlthe2b]

1. Good Lord... Why must children be the pawn for every agenda?

There may be benefit in this, but my first inclination is to be skeptical.

[oneshooter]

20. I would agree to this

IF they used a proper safety class, and they could/should make it voluntary. That way responsible, thinking parents can enroll their children.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Brickbat]

2. I wish our school had a gun safety program. And I don't mean one that has them write reports.

I have heard of some school districts that have optional classes on safe gun handling and shooting. I wish we had one of those, too.

[spin]

4. Lives would be saved by such programs ...

that's a good thing.

[Brickbat]

7. Yup.

We live in a rural area with a lot of hunting. While my son and I are working on our bow skills until I'm confident we could kill a deer, we have no experience or family history with guns. I am sure my kids will someday be invited on hunting trips and I want them to be smart and comfortable around their friends' guns, but I don't want to purchase one myself. Classes like this would be perfect.

I also think shooting is a good skill to have and sometimes I think about getting into target shooting just so I can be a gun-totin' liberal.

[spin]

14. Target shooting is a good hobby ...

It's not real expensive to get into and with proper care a target rifle or pistol can last a lifetime and be passed on your children.

You can also meet a lot of nice people at a target range.

[Brickbat]

So I hear.

Once I get the bow mastered, I might look into target firearms. You know, in my free time. :rofl:

[spin]

27. I've shot both both bows and handguns ...

neither are easy to master.

Which makes for a good challenging hobby.

To each his own. Some people like golf. Another challenging hobby.

[Brickbat]

31. It's been a real pleasure working with the bow with my son.

Safety, patience, perseverance, practice, bodily control, etc. ... all good things for kids to learn.

You can keep golf. :)

[oneshooter]

35. Recurve or Longbow? n/t

[Brickbat]

36. Recurve.

[oneshooter]

37. Great!! I have an intense dislike of compound bows

They are like inline ML rifles. Removal of the skill in order to get more power. I shoot both recurve and Longbow, the latter being my preferred. I build my own wooden arrows w/forged tips and goose feathering. Both of my bows stack to 74# at full draw.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Brickbat]

38. Very cool!

I figure if he wants to get into gadgetry when he's older and has his own money, fine. In the meantime, he'll learn the shoot the "hard" way -- and then see what an accomplishment it really is!

I'd love to learn the longbow -- they are gorgeous.

[one-eyed fat man]

47. There should be a number of choices.

Most states require Hunter Safety Education to obtain a hunting license. The states Fish and Wildlife Division or the Department of Natural Resources has lists of classes , etc.

If you are in a rural area, the FFA, 4-H, volunteer fire department, often sponsor the classes and odds are there's a flyer posted on the bulletin board at the feed mill.

or simply ask the Game Warden. If you are a landowner in a rural area and you don't know the Game Warden you are missing an important ally in the fight to keep the city slickers, who think any land outside their subdivision is a public recreation area, open for them to hunt; fish; ride their horses, motorcycles, 4-wheelers; pick mushrooms, ginseng, etc.

[Guilded Lilly]

3. If this happens via the NRA we have officially

jumped the shark.

However, explaining to children the horrors of gun death and violence and *what ifs* is not a bad idea.

[cowman]

5. Why?

What is so bad about teaching children about the safe handling of guns. If they had safety training, don't you think that they would be more careful of guns?

[Guilded Lilly]

6. I edited my quick reply :)

My fear was that in showing children the uses of guns (via NRA) it would only make them more curious to seek them out.

I was too quick with my gut reaction to that part of the post!

peace,
Lilly

[Brickbat]

8. The school program that the NRA provides does not show a gun at any time.

[Guilded Lilly]

12. I stand by my gut reaction to the NRA

having anything to do with any proposed, *forced* gun legislation for children.
I don't trust the agenda that I, personally, connect with the NRA.
It's personal. And with me, that will not change.

peace,
Lilly

[Brickbat]

15. All right.

[spin]

22. The NRA program teaches gun safety

Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.



Begun in 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has reached more than 21 million children -- in all 50 states. This program was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.

Anyone may teach The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program, and NRA membership is not required. The program may be readily incorporated into existing school curriculum, taught in a one- to five-day format, and used to reach both levels or simply one or two grades. Materials available through this program are: student workbooks, 7-minute animated video (available on DVD or VHS), instructor guides, brochures, and student reward stickers. Program materials are also available in Spanish.

***snip***

The purpose of the Eddie Eagle Program isn't to teach whether guns are good or bad, but rather to promote the protection and safety of children. The program makes no value judgments about firearms, and no firearms are ever used in the program. Like swimming pools, electrical outlets, matchbooks and household poison, they're treated simply as a fact of everyday life. With firearms found in about half of all American households, it's a stance that makes sense.

Eddie Eagle is never shown touching a firearm, and he does not promote firearm ownership or use. The program prohibits the use of Eddie Eagle mascots anywhere that guns are present. The Eddie Eagle Program has no agenda other than accident prevention -- ensuring that children stay safe should they encounter a gun. The program never mentions the NRA. Nor does it encourage children to buy guns or to become NRA members. The NRA does not receive any appropriations from Congress, nor is it a trade organization. It is not affiliated with any firearm or ammunition manufacturers or with any businesses that deal in guns and ammunition.
http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

The National Crime Prevention Council's program appears to have a political agenda. While they do teach a student what to do if they find a firearm, they also concentrate on the historical misuse of firearms in the deaths of prominent figures such as JFK, Marin Luther King Jr. and Abraham Lincoln.

If you dislike firearms, then you should favor a program that emphasizes how bad firearms are. The NCPC's program could have been designed by the Brady Campaign.

Personally, I would prefer to see children taught gun safety period. But, still, any training is better than none.

Of course, my daughter and grandchildren learned gun safety by actually handling and shooting firearms. They know what happens to a water melon when it is hit by a rifle, shotgun or large caliber handgun. Responsible parents are probably the best teachers of gun safety.

But not every parent owns firearms or is responsible with them. Children are attracted to firearms because of their constant portrayal in movies and TV. With 300 million firearms in our nation, chances are they will encounter one as a child. As I said, any training is better than none.

[oneshooter]

23. Perhaps if you actually saw the NRA program

Instead of using your"gut reaction" you would sound a lot more thoughtfully and intelligent with your decision.

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/index.asp


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[TheWraith]

25. You might want to double check that gut reaction against the facts at some point.

While I don't hold any business with the NRA, they do have a lot of perfectly valid gun safety and training activities which have absolutely nothing to do with the image (exaggerated or otherwise) that some people hold of them.

[spin]

28. The organization which pisses people off is the NRA-ILA ....

as the fund raising wing of the NRA they publish a lot of propaganda to generate funds.

Typical of any political organization.

[SteveM]

48. I think any gun "safety" course in public school should be voluntary...

but it should include at least in-class and demonstrated use/operation of firearm(s) by the instructor. Actual range use would be preferable starting in junior high or middle school. Of the 2 programs shown in the OP, the NRA curriculum appears to be the least politically-charged. Holding memorials for assassination victims may have some purpose, but it has less to do with gun safety and more to do with associating firearms with murder and mayhem exclusively.

Frankly, by junior high, there are enough kids out there who are both knowledgeable and experienced in the safe use of firearms to be teachers themselves, and they should be incorporated into any curricula used to teach gun safety. (While I won't put myself into my own category, in the 8th grade I brought a shotgun to my homeroom class and showed the assembly and safe operation of the firearm. Of course that was in 1962.)

Above all, we cannot allow firearms "knowledge" to be the purview of T.V. crime drama, Hollywood, and the local punk/thug who sneaks one into his/her backpack. Equating guns with prohibited stuff opens the gates to lurid, ignorance-fueled attraction.

[cowman]

17. Respectfully

that's completely wrong. Our daughter was taught gun safety at the age of 5 and understood that guns are not toys and once she understood them, she was not curious about them. She is now a Police Officer with Las Vegas Metro and a Firearms Instructor.

[Guilded Lilly]

19. Respectfully, I feel otherwise

If your life experiences lead you to a different conclusion, then you come by it honestly and it is not wrong...for YOU.

My conclusion is not wrong for me :)
Peace.

[cowman]

24. That's

a valid point. I not trying to force my beliefs on you, I'm just pointing out my belief and experiences.
Peace Back at You

[Callisto32]

45. Except that it is wrong.

That is like saying "2+2=5 is not wrong for me." Social science has recognized for years that teaching people about things removes much of the aura from them. It's like the lower used of Cannabis in the Netherlands compared to the places in the world where it is illegal, or the lower rates of alcohol abuse in many places where drinking is less mallum prohibitum.

[cowman]

21. OK, I wasn't

getting snippy with you, I am just a firm believer in teaching children gun safety and the NRA has an excellent program called Eddie Eagle and at no time is a gun shown or used

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. OIC- Like sex education "induces" kids to become sexually active?

If they keep the NRA-ILA propaganda (and the NRA-ILA *does* sling a lot of it) out, and stick to facts I see no harm.

Actually, we would all see less harm, imo.

[AtheistCrusader]

41. Those who do not know thier history are doomed to repeat it.

http://www.life.com/image/50669219

Incidentally, back then, and for decades after, school shootings were unheard of.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. Yes, for the following reasons.

Statistics, Gun Control Issues, and Safety
In the U.S. for 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,883; Homicide 12,791; Accident 642; Legal Intervention 360; Undetermined 220. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (CDC, 2006).

The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care. A 1994 study revealed the cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center was over $14,000. The cumulative lifetime cost in 1985 for gunshot wounds was estimated to be $911 million, with $13.4 billion in lost productivity. (Mock et al, 1994) The cost of the improper use of firearms in Canada was estimated at $6.6 billion per year. (Chapdelaine and Maurice, 1996)

The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The U.S. national average was 10.3 deaths per 100,000 population in 2001. The highest rate was 34.5/100,000 for African-American males, more than double the rate of 16.3/100,000 for white males and well above the rate of 2.7/100,000 for white females. (CDC, 2004)

Look, we spend a lot of school hours teach kids hygene, to just wash their hands after taking a shit. Very few people die because they don't wash shit their hands. We train kids to use hand sanitizers. All the studies show hand sanatizers have zero effect at stopping most common childhood illnesses. Hell, we teach children how to swim safely.

Guns do kill people. Since we live in a society that elevates guns to a form of godhood, we should keep children safe by teaching them safety rules.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

10. Total fail. Gun safety has absolutely NOTHING to do with assassinations (the bill's lesson focus)

5 of the 7 teaching points are nothing but emotional scare tactics.
If anything, only some of these belong in HISTORY class.

Gun safety is explaining the dangers of firearms, the real world and legal consequences of handling or being involved with firearms, and precisely what to do should a child encounter a firearm. The latter point, reacting to a firearm encounter, should be heavily stressed. I would be hesitant to teach any actual firearm handling as that may instill a false sense of security or experience.

[alp227]

11. Well, it should be that way as long as Virginia has a strong gun culture

There are other states and a big big world out there where you can raise your kids if you don't want your kids to be gun nuts.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. Ummm... most states have more lax gun laws than Virginia.

If kids are in other states, odds are they they should be trained how to deal with a firearm just as much, if not moreso than Virginians.

[benEzra]

32. Virginia is ranked 15th strictest in the nation by the Brady Campaign....

...actually tied for 14th, behind #13 North Carolina, if you look at their numeric score.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/bcam/stategunlaws/scorecard/StateRatings.pdf

Most states are more pro-gun-ownership than Virginia is.

[spin]

39. My state, Florida, is three from the bottom ..

my Grand kids all had the NRA Eddie Eagle Safety Program in school.

[hughee99]

13. The schools don't need to teach gun safety

Just another political football like fire safety & stranger danger. :sarcasm:

Just because guns are a political issue doesn't mean that you shouldn't offer a program on gun safety, particularly the dangers and what they should do if they find one.

[oneshooter]

18. It sounds like they want to not use a leader in gun safety

and use a feel good, guns bad, OMG, liberal right wing class.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas


FLAME ON!!!!!!!!

[slackmaster]

26. The National Crime Prevention Council is unclear on the concept

Gun safety means learning the basic rules of safe gun handling, and how to safely unload a few common types of weapons - Revolvers, semiautomatic pistols, bolt-action and semiautomatic rifles, and tube-fed shotguns.

[Chota]

50. IMO I don't think they should be teaching them to

unload any firearms. They should teach Don't touch, leave the area and tell an adult.
If they or nor anyone else touches the firearm they can't get hurt.
My kids have been through the Eddie Eagle program and they said they enjoyed it and learned a lot. I've drilled firearms safety into their heads from the time they were big enough to understand yes and no.
At a later time when if and when they take either hunter safety or an advanced firearms safety class should they actually be taught to load and unload. I'm a firearms instructor and newbies regardless of age scare the heck out of me.

[Bold Lib]

29. Looks like an anti-gun programe packaged as a gun safety class.

[benEzra]

34. Yup. That's not teaching gun safety, but gun abhorrence.

"Stop, don't touch, get away, tell an adult" is apolitical. Indoctrination in the supposed evils of gun ownership isn't.

[TPaine7]

30. Absolutely not.

Children should not be burdened with information on dealing with dangerous things they may encounter.

They should not:

1) Be taught the danger of playing with fire and matches
2) Taught the danger of taking candy from or getting rides from strangers
3) Taught the danger of eating or drinking things decorated with skulls and crossbones
4) Taught the dangers of using meth or cocaine
5) Taught the dangers of unprotected sex

...

Of course children should not be *forced* to learn to handle the dangers they may encounter in this worlds. They shouldn't even be *forced* to learn math and reading. :sarcasm:

[Deep13]

33. Sure, basic safety. Also, tell 'em where babies come from. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. We teach a Fire Safe program at day cares and elementary schools.

If it will decrease deaths it sounds like a good plan.

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. Feh. This is D.A.R.E. with guns, or "gun abstinence-only" propaganda

which would probably be worse than the status quo.

[Greyhound]

44. We got it in 8th grade, I think it's a good idea to at least cover basic safety.

It certainly doesn't hurt.

[Euromutt]

46. I think this program outline needs a little balance

* Share with them that when people die from being shot, they can no longer do good things for their families or for society.

Also share (puke) with them that when people die from being shot, they can no longer do bad things to their families or other members of society.

* Assign students to groups of four or five, and have them select a historical figure who was killed by gun violence. Possibilities include Martin Luther King, Jr.; John F. Kennedy; Abraham Lincoln; and Mahatma Gandhi. Have each group research the person they chose and list the positive contributions he or she made to society.

For each victim of assassination whose contributions to society were positive, have a group research a person who contributions were negative. Possibilities include Reinhard Heydrich; Franz Kutschera; Karl Marthinsen; Anastasio Somoza Debayle; and Željko "Arkan" Ražnatović. Have each group research the person they chose and list the atrocities they were instrumental in causing to be committed.

* Have each group present a biography of the individual they researched and their ideas of what the individual could have done if he or she had not died from gun violence.

As above.

[PavePusher]

51. Oh. You want "fair and balanced".

Or is it "equal time"?

:sarcasm: :rofl:

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Edit: Oops, nope, it was "Fairness Doctrine" i was after.....

[Remmah2]

49. Health Class

In health class we learned about food handling, disease/immunization, nutrition, first aid and safe sex. There's risky behavior and safe behavior, safety around firearms could easily be incorporated. Not safe firearm handling, or firearms instruction.

There have been varsity rifle teams in high schools since the 50's. Due to safety training and healthy attitudes there have been ZERO fatalities at any of those ranges, or at college rifle team/pistol team ranges either.

It comes down to knowledge and respect. Deny knowledge and there will be no respect.