Should there be concealed carry in Illinois?

[oneshooter]

SPRINGFIELD -- For the second time in a week, a House panel dominated by downstate lawmakers signaled its approval of a law allowing Illinoisans to carry concealed weapons.
The House Agriculture Committee voted 11-2 to endorse the proposed law, which is sponsored by state Rep. Brandon Phelps, D-Harrisburg.
Chicago-area lawmakers are likely to push back if the measure comes up for debate in the full House. The committee has approved similar measures at least five times in previous years, but the concept has not advanced in the full House.
One of the proposals upset retailers and manufactures. It states that if a business prohibits people from carrying guns on their establishment, they are liable for injuries in armed robberies to gun owners who were disarmed.
State Rep. Julie Hamos, D- Evanston, voted against the proposal like she did last week. State Rep. Mary Flowers, D- Chicago, also voted against Phelp's bill.
The legislation is House Bill 5221.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/illinois/article_3223006c-2bcd-11df-a71d-001cc4c03286.html

Not my state, no comment

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[sharesunited]

1. With all the compelling needs and difficulties of our state, why this sideshow?

[GreenStormCloud]

2. To give people the means to protect themselves.

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

[sharesunited]

3. What a manufactured and imaginary issue. Just to have more guns out in the streets?

It's an irresponsible crock and unwholesome objective.

[PavePusher]

5. Yeah, because the death toll in Vermont is....

underwhelming.

Or are you implying that people in Illinois are less trust-worthy than those in Vermont?

[sharesunited]

7. More likely to turn into Virginia here. Plagued with mass shootings.

At least, that would be the indication from the NIU rampage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_University_shooting

[PavePusher]

8. From your own source:

"NIU Police Chief Donald Grady described him as "an outstanding student" who reportedly stopped taking medication recently and became "somewhat erratic"."

But clearly it was the guns that drove him to it. :crazy:



"The door Kazmierczak used led directly to the stage in front of the classroom; it was there he stood and fired into the crowd of students..."

A perfect target for a legally armed student to shoot back and stop or at least hinder the bastard, letting others escape. But you prefer unarmed victims, and so you fail again. :wtf:

[sharesunited]

11. We become all one thing or all the other. And gun toters is the unquestionable tilt.

[PavePusher]

14. Go have a hot cuppa and a lie down.

You're speaking in toungues again.

[Statistical]

10. You would be lucky for IL to "turn into VA"....

Virginia
violent crime 256 per 100K
homicide 4.7 per 100K
Rape 23 per 100K
Robbery 96 per 100K
Burglary 411 per 100K

Illinois
violent crime 525 per 100K (+105% higher)
homicide 6.1 per 100K (+30% higher)
Rape 32 per 100K (+39% higher)
Robbery 186 per 100K (+94% higher)
Burglary 512 per 100K (+20% higher)

Per those "gun nuts" at the FBI.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_05.html

I guess I could say something about stones and glass houses but I will let # do the talking.

[sharesunited]

12. Perhaps more rampage mass shootings will be worth it then! Here's hoping!

[PavePusher]

13. Did you seriously not see the numbers saying

FEWER MURDERS IN VIRGINIA

You blind spot is apparently physical, as well as mental.

[sharesunited]

15. Yes, I see it. Lower per capita. So it's definitely worth the incidents of mass slaughter!

You make a compelling statistical case.

[PavePusher]

18. Are you saying that mass shootings are caused by States that allow and regulate

Concealed Carry?


If so, support your assertion, please.

[sharesunited]

21. 8 dead in NC nursing home shooting.

10 dead in southern AL two-town rampage.

12 dead at Fort Hood.

32 dead at VA Tech.

8 dead in Appomattox.

14 dead in Binghamton.

In each of these incidents, somebody thought guns solved problems.

Concealed carry likewise reflects the view that guns solve problems.

[PavePusher]

36. And yet this does nothing...

to support the assertion that legal CC causes crime.

Please, try again.

[spin]

17. Are you seriously hoping for more mass shootings to prove your case? ...

I'm at loss for words that wouldn't cause this post to be deleted.

Sad, very sad.

[proteus_lives]

22. Prophesied bloodbaths that never happen.

Zero points awarded.

[virginia mountainman]

27. HA HA, You wish.... Nt

[russ1943]

30. Death toll vs. Firearms deaths.

Death toll?
People die from a variety of causes, so the death toll or over all death rate doesn’t correlate that strongly with the title of this forum (Guns). The category of "rate of firearms deaths" represents exclusively deaths commited with firearms. The rate of firearms deaths in Vermont IS HIGHER…………YES HIGHER, than it is in Illinois. Also, there is a higher rate of people (per 100,000) who die from being shot with a firearm in Vermont, than in the U.S. in general, as well as in Illinois.
Latest statistics available from National Vital Statistics Reports are for 2006, available at
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf Table 29, Page 105.

US Firearms injury death rate; 10.2
Illinois “ 8.1
Vermont “ 8.7


Deaths (death toll)crude rate per 100,000
US 810.4
Illinois 796.2
Vermont 809.1

[PavePusher]

32. Are those suicides, murders or legal self-defense/police actions?

Or three very different circumstances all lumped into one catagory.

[russ1943]

33. Which one(s) would you like to know about?

As to the statistics I linked and provided a reputable source for, they are what I said they are. Can you read?
What are/is “death toll(s)? Where can I find a source? A link?

[PavePusher]

34. I'm sure you know that it makes a difference which catagory they fall into.

And that lumping them together presents a false picture.

Spin, it's what's for breakfast.

[russ1943]

37. convoluted drivel

What do you call your reference to Vermont’s death toll if not a huge lumping of all deaths, in all categories together? When you lumped together all causes of deaths like you did with the term death toll in your #5, YOU aren’t presenting a false picture, but when I compare death rates by firearms in one state to death rates by fireams in another state I’m presenting a false picture.


Spin? Ha!
Gungeon convoluted drivel.

[cowman]

24. Yeah

because the Chicago gun ban works so well
0 points awarded

[oneshooter]

25. And the crime just doesn't happen in Illinois? n/t

[PavePusher]

4. You forgot one option...

"With Vermont-type Constitutional Carry".

But I'll forgive you this time... :toast:

[oneshooter]

6. It's late , and I'm tired. Long day preping the garden. n/t

[PavePusher]

9. I understand.

I played hookey from my yard work today. Which means that I'll have to do it tomorrow. Joy.

[Grand Taurean]

16. I fully support the 2nd amendment which

protects our inherent right to bear arms.

[PavePusher]

19. The Bill of Rights...

gives us nothing.

It protects Rights which are inherent in the people.

[Statistical]

20. Thank you. Pet Peeve of mine.

If the govt gives you a "right" it isn't a right. Anything the govt can give it can later "ungive".

The founders believed we had certain inalienable rights. Everyone has them not just Americans. The founders today would say the citizens of China has a right of freedom of speech, and press, and religion. The tyrannical Chinese govt simply infringes upon those rights.

The Bill of Rights is was a promise to that first and every subsequent generations of Americans that the US govt would never infringe upon these (and other enumerated) rights. If the govt does then it has lost the legitimacy of rule and the founders had a solution for that too (it involved the second).

[shadowrider]

23. The 11th Commandment

What the government giveth, the government can taketh away.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

26. YES, With statewide preemtion too.

Fuck Daley and his Cook Co. cronies.

[one-eyed fat man]

28. I voted for onerous costs

it's what they have in Chicago already. If you can bribe your way into an Alderman's seat, you can carry concealed.

Or if you can gain control of the entire fiefdom based on heredity, you don't need to since hizzonner King Richard II has his security detail provided 24-7 at taxpayer expense.

Otherwise you are like Shares, not worth defending. (Don't believe me, ask the Mayor. He states repeatedly and emphatically ordinary citizens don't need guns.)

Maybe Daley should do like they did in Berlin in 1961, put up a wall to protect his subjects from those 'dangerous' ideas from downstate

[oneshooter]

29. I noticed that nobody has voted for the "opt out" #2. n/t

[aikoaiko]

31. It seem inevitable.

[jeepnstein]

35. Sure, why not?

Most of the states already have it and there have been very few problems.