Man Who Says He Shot Car Burglar Charged

[The Straight Story]

Man Who Says He Shot Car Burglar Charged

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Charges were filed Monday against a man who shot and wounded a man who was apparently breaking into his vehicle.

The shooting occurred at about 2 a.m. behind a house in the 2400 block of Fourth Street, 10TV's Patrick Bell reported

According to police, officers arrived at the scene and found David A. Sargent suffering from a gunshot wound to the upper body. Sargent, 21, told them the shooting happened down the street.

Officers went to the other location and found Elza E. Marks, who said he shot a man who was breaking into his vehicle, according to police.

Marks, 28, was subsequently charged with felonious assault, police said.

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/03/15/story-columbus-fourth-street-shooting.html?sid=102

[Magleetis]

1. This should be good

:popcorn:

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Not really.

Only one state in the union is that legal, and there, only at night.

Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200$

[wuushew]

2. Sounds fair to me

human life > automobile

[gorfle]

12. I disagree.

I value my car more than the life of any human trying to steal it. Even yours.

[Luciferous]

3. Shooting the guy is excessive, but I don't have any sympathy

for the guy breaking into the car. He's lucky he wasn't killed.

[rfranklin]

4. since for most of us our car is a penis extension, this is justified...

No way is should this shooter be charged.

[Tejas]

32. so how's the Toyota Echo?

And a car is 'what' to a female?

[paulsby]

45. clitoris extension

see: clitoromegalomy (sp?)

[paulsby]

44. nice. penis canard by extension

interesting...

[SteveM]

51. A highly-leveraged extension.

[bluestateguy]

5. What a waste of law enforcement resources

While I do not condone shooting the car burglar*, he clearly brought it on himself.


*Notice I didn't say I condemned it either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. The Law Is You Are Only Allowed To Use Force To Repel Deadly Force

~

[msanthrope]

7. Wait, you can't shoot kids trampling your lawn? Damn! n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

8. Not in Texas. We get to shoot to defend property. N/T

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Are You Sure

Even if somebody is running away?

[atreides1]

14. Good question

Anyone from Texas want to field this one?

[shadowrider]

17. If they're running away and no longer present a threat

I believe shooting them in the back is agin the law everywhere.

[paulsby]

46. See: Tennessee v. Garner

that's the dominant case.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Texas Penal Code - Section 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

[shadowrider]

19. According to (B)

Does that mean the perp has to be in the process of committing the crime, or is shooting them in the back as they run legal? It's not really clear to me.

[GreenStormCloud]

21. The perp has grabbed the stuff and is running away (at night) - BANG.

He isn't running now. Stop shooting, call 911.

[jody]

26. Is it your contention that the burglar was escaping with property? "from escaping with the property"

[Bold Lib]

35. "or criminal mischief during the nighttime" This is something that many teenagers in Texas

need to be aware of. There was a case in Corpus Christi TX (sometime in the early 90's IIRC) where some teens were toilet papering a house, the owner came out with a shotgun and killed a couple of them. He was initially arrested but later released and all charges dropped. It was not illegal to shoot the teens in the act of "criminal mischief during the nighttime".

[Tejas]

33. Well, there is one way to satisfy your curiousity.

"Even if somebody is running away?"


Escaping Felon, potentially retrieving a weapon to kill you, etc etc etc etc

[shadowrider]

10. Apparently in Ohio

If someone is breaking into your car to steal your stuff the appropriate response is to call police who may or may not get there in time, but in the meantime, offer the burglar tea and crumpets so he isn't hungry during the commission of his crime.

Darn glad I don't live there.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

11. Resident of Ohio here... Deadly force may be used to stop car theft!

Deadly force may be used to stop car theft IF and ONLY IF you are in that vehicle. This falls undre Castle Doctrine law.
If I recall the law correctly, the vehicle must belong to you or a family member or the owner of the vehicle must be present in the vehicle.

If you are in the car and someone attempts to rob or carjack you, deadly force may be used to defend yourself.

If you see someone stealing your car (you are not in the vehicle), you may not use deadly force to protect your vehicle.
However, you can approach the crime in progress and demand they stop and say the police have been called.

[shadowrider]

13. "STOP or I shall be forced to say stop again"

If I can't defend my property, there is no way on this earth I'm going to approach someone who is probably armed, with an illegal weapon (gun), or a legal one (knife, bat, crowbar, etc.) and chance getting killed.

I'll just offer them tea and crumpets so they don't get hungry and a coat in case it's cold.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

15. You missed the implication.

When I walk out to demand some thug to leave my property alone I hope he gets on up and leaves. You better believe I'll be armed too.
If he comes at me, attacks me, or threatens me in any way... I'm shooting him. I am, after all, justifiably allowed to defend myself.
That my car is now safe after I've protected myself is a very nice bonus. ;)

[shadowrider]

16. I didn't miss that

But if they DON'T come at you, there is nothing you can do other than watch, if I understand correctly.

By the way, I'd be waiting with .40, 165 grain hollowpoint, just in case..

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. 180gr > 165gr

Better expansion (deeper cavity, more material to expand).
Better power factor too (momentum) for deeper penetration.
Then again, just carry a 10mm. Any other .40 is just s&w (short & weak). :P

Yeah, I guess you could have a cell phone and call the cops.
Most criminals probably aren't smart enough to realize theyt are "protected" under the law until they attack the owner.
My guess is nearly all would run or confront the owner. Smart criminals wear suits and have business cards. ;)

[shadowrider]

25. Either one

Will get the bad guys attention.

[paulsby]

48. there is plenty you can do

short of shooting him

you could pepper spray him, tase him, throw a phonebook at him, or even draw your gun and order him to stop

and if he runs away, no ... don't shoot.

you just can't shoot him for what he is doing.

you have essentially (in most jurisdictions) the same authority to stop a guy stealing your car as a cop does.

cops can't shoot people for it, and neither can you.

[paulsby]

49. not really

you have your gun OUT when you approach the guy, jsut like i do when i approach a guy stealing a car.

you challenge him.

if he stops, great.

if he runs off, you could chase him, but you can't shoot him (i'd let him go if i was a civilian and didn't have backup )

you can hold him at gun point.

you just can't shoot him MERELY for what he is doing

[Euromutt]

50. Enough with the fucking "tea and crumpets" bullshit already

Nobody says you can't defend your property; you're just not entitled to use lethal force to do so. Frankly, repeating that "tea and crumpets" shit like it's some fucking mantra does not add any value to the conversation, and by implying that the only response to a non-violent crime that you're even willing to consider is the use of a firearm plays right into the hands of the various hand-wringers on this board who like to make out that people who own guns for defensive purposes a) think a gun is a solution to every problem, and b) are just itching for an excuse to shoot somebody. It's fucking hard to claim that's a straw man when you sound like you think exactly that (and act like it's some fucking insult to your manhood to let you do anything less).

You want to stop a guy who's breaking into your car but doesn't pose a direct threat, try pepper spray.

[onehandle]

23. The burglar lived? The gunman was a fool.

If you're going to shoot, go for the head.

Honestly. The NRA needs to mention the essential headshot loudly and often.

[shadowrider]

24. It is

Just after they mention two to center mass.

[cabluedem]

27. another law abiding gun owner going to prison. GOOD!!!!

[oneshooter]

28. Why is it good? n/t

[cabluedem]

29. It proves that there is no such thing as a LAGO, thats why.

[Katya Mullethov]

30. Boy I'm sold

Next insurmaountable obstacle !

[oneshooter]

31. In what way? n/t

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulsby]

47. fear canard

take whatever...

[SteveM]

53. wruff! wruff! king of the forest!

[oneshooter]

56. When will you answer the question?

The Question being this" Why does one gun owner getting charged with a crime, charged not convicted, mean that the other eighty million or so gun owners are guilty?"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[cowman]

66. He won't answer

all he does is call other people cowards because he is a coward

[Dappleganger]

58. OK, are you gonna make a public service announcement so the bad guys know this...

because those chickens are packing heat.

[aikoaiko]

37. I don't think proves means what you think it means.

Back to Logic 101 for you.

[Glassunion]

38. What do little plastic building blocks have to do with this?

Just sayin...

[cabluedem]

42. Cant even spell and you need a gun? Not hardly!

[SteveM]

54. He was trying to follow your logical building blocks. I should have warned him. nt

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Merchant Marine]

39. And I bet you think AKs are banned in California too...

[cabluedem]

40. They are banned in CA. Punk just got busted with one near sacto.

[oneshooter]

57. News link please? n/t

[Glassunion]

59. I'm sure she is still looking for it...

She will be along with the link aaaany moment. I'm sure.

[Merchant Marine]

61. Try again, champ

Both are 100% California Legal. Actually an entire industry has sprung up in California to manufacture parts to turn that Evil Black Rifle into a Politically Correct Rifle. The AWB in California is as much of a farce as it was on the federal level.

[friendly_iconoclast]

64. Hey, we *need* our version of the Washington Generals here at the Guns Forum!

How else will we keep our rhetorical skills sharp if they don't regularly post obvious howlers?

They're not doing themselves or their cause any favors, but they certainly help us.

Heh.

[cowman]

67. Eh

speaking out your ass again

[SteveM]

52. So 80,000,000 Americans are not law-abiding? How liberal of you.

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. And this is another one "too chicken to fight like a man", amirite?

Should *this* gun owner go to jail?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x302381#302385

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

65. So you actually believe that none of the 80 million gun owners in this country are law abiding?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tejas]

34. Joe Horn didn't,

and rightfully so.

Sympathize the criminal's much there CBD?

[pipoman]

36. I wonder if Mr. Marks

is of Romanian Gypsy Marks family.

[paulsby]

43. pretty much par for the course and generally a sure thing

you can't shoot (not in my jurisdiction) a guy just for breaking into your (unoccupied) car.

i can't do it as a cop, and nobody else can either

i am 100% pro RKBA and pro right to defend oneself.

one does not have the right to protect a car with deadly force, though

[PavePusher]

60. All of which begs the question...

How may one defend property?

It seems the law would esentially say you can't use force. So you'd have to stand by, phone clutched in hand and hope the police show up in time?

Good luck with that in most places (NOT a slam on police, just a fact).

[pipoman]

62. Messing with someone's car after dark in Texas and Louisiana

has long been risky business. There are many stories of repo men shot or threatened and no charges filed, in both states...and that is someone with no criminal intent.

edit...this is why I am wondering if Mr. Marks is a member of the Romanian Marks family..