BBC article - Mexican goverment "insists" about our constitutional freedoms

[Xela]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/8582497.stm

"...the Mexican government insists that Washington do more. Guns bought north of the border end up in the drug barons' hands, it argues, and the heavy demand for drugs in US territory is the root cause of the conflict."

Insist all you want, we can't sacrifice our liberty for your lack of responsability. Most of the confiscated "evil-looking" items portrayed on the news are obviously ex-Mexican Army, or ex-Mexican police.

Funny how they don't mention legalization of drugs, better distribution of wealth, social services, goverment transparency and accountability, improving education...they clearly lock-on the most sensationalist target.

"...migration and trade, have virtually vanished from the bilateral agenda. These days, their relationship seems to be largely focused on Mexico's drugs war."

Yeah. Fund the Merida Plan, give more weapons to Mexico's military and police...and then MORE guns end up on the streets. Nice way to break the cycle.

Xela

[Hoopla Phil]

1. Recommended!!!

[SteveM]

2. A prohibitionist War of the Worlds...

I find it amazing that 3 members of a U.S. consulate in Mexico were murdered, yet the news coverage is weak and already speculating on the killing as a case of mistaken identity. Little is mentioned of the possibility the attack was a direct insult to our nation, calculated to demonstrate the weakness of both Mexico and the U.S. in the face of the most disastrous prohibition policy in our history.

Of course, Mexico is going to blame the U.S. for its "demand for drugs," and they should. But both countries need to get busy with ending prohibition and the institutionalization of regulation, or we'll see more Afghanistan on our border.

In wars, the losing side often becomes the major supplier of weapons for the other side. Does anyone really expect that the most powerful smuggling and corrupting influence in this hemisphere cannot obtain anything it wants from its own government?

And some people want yet more prohibitions (guns and tobacco).

[one-eyed fat man]

12. The more things change the more they stay the same....

[Callisto32]

19. Is that a Kevin Tuma?

I'm a fan of his stuff and have seen that before, and can't remember if it is his or not.

[spin]

3. Could it be that the Mexicans would like to see U.S. citizens disarmed

or at least have no access to semi-auto "assault weapons" with which to defend themselves against the Mexican drug cartels as they move operations into the U.S.?

Gun control has worked well for the drug lords in Mexico. They have the guns, the citizens don't.

[Xela]

4. RE: "They have the guns, the citizens don't."

(sarcasm on)

But civilians are allowed to own firearms and some DO have .380 ACP pistolas and .38 Special revolvers...

Shouldn't that be enough to defend themselves?

(sarcasm off)

Xela

[SsevenN]

5. Mexico needs

To stop worrying about a few of our guns, and worry about the boatloads of drug related trafficking.

Hell we could even help out by legalising pot.

[benEzra]

6. Maybe we should stop selling those mostly-Title-2 guns to the Mexican military, then...

because those M16's, M4's, and M203's aren't coming from the U.S. civilian market.

[Euromutt]

11. That's the Mexican police, actually

The Mexican armed forces use mostly domestically produced firearms, license-made G3s and the new FX-05 Xiuhcoatl. The main government users of M16/M4 variants are the various police forces, and the main conduit of such weapons to the cartels are state police forces. The federales are pretty resistant to corruption, from what I understand.

That said, the Mexican special forces do use M16s, M4s and Barrett M82A1s; significantly, the founder and a large number of members of Los Zetas were recruited from the Grupo Aeromovil de Fuerzas Especiales.

[burrfoot]

7. Uh, am I missing something here?

How about if we respond, very calmly, by insisting that they do something about those...shit, wait, what are they...oh yeah......METRIC FUCKING TONS OF DRUGS that are "bought" in Mexico (someone is getting the drugs to Mexico and somebody else is getting them over the border, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen without money changing hands) and make their way north of the border?

Sometimes I think we actually should have a wall. I'm not sure whether to put the sarcasm there or not.



:banghead:

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Mexico doesn't *wan't* real border controls. They hinder the export of drugs and poor people...

...the remittances from both being one of the few things keeping their economy alive and the masses placated.

If Jose or Juana Seis-Pack were not able to head to Gringoland to make a living, Mexico would be in a civil war within a year. The porous frontera is a safety valve.

Things will get even uglier than they are already in MX when their oil runs out in a few years, border controls or not.

[Artie Bucco]

9. No offense

But your post is akin to the knuckle-dragging diatribes I would expect to see from some right wing site.


Let me give you the run down. I will cite sources. I will also add that I am both a Mexican and a US citizen and I happen to own guns in the States. I am aware that the majority of the weapons in Mexico have mostly come through Central America.

A little known thing about the remittances as that they are done by US citizens. No, not Mexicans like myself but mostly retirees who have gone in droves to retire in Mexico.

Yes, in former California Governor Pete Wilson's immortal words, "They just keep coming." Over the last decade, the U.S. State Department estimates that the number of Americans living in Mexico has soared from 200,000 to 1 million (or one-quarter of all U.S. expatriates). Remittances from the United States to Mexico have risen dramatically from $9 billion to $14.5 billion in just two years. Though initially interpreted as representing a huge spike in illegal workers (who send parts of their salaries across the border to family), it turns out to be mainly money sent by Americans to themselves in order to finance Mexican homes and retirements.

Although some of them are certainly naturalized U.S. citizens returning to towns and villages of their birth after lifetimes of toil al otro lado , the director-general of FONATUR, the official agency for tourism development in Mexico, recently characterized the typical investors in that country's real estate as American "baby boomers who have paid off in good part their initial mortgage and are coming into inheritance money."


Yeah, the article is 4 years old but it shouldn't be surprising that remittances have gone down especially when so many Baby Boomers had their 401ks and their retirement accounts take huge hits with the recent recession. The decreasing sales of Mexican vacation real estate have gone down by 12 to 60 percent depending on the region also seem to hint at this theory.


http://www.frbatlanta.org/pubs/econsouth/econsouth-vol_4_no_3-a_mixed_blessing_oil_and_latin_american_economies.cfm?redirected=true

In regards to oil; Mexico's economy is much more diversified than that dude. Hell it's reliance on oil is no where near as much as some other countries in Latin America.

On an aside I do have to say that Mexico should have Pemex switch over into a more PetroBras style model instead of the State owned monopoly.


I will leave you with these last two blogs I am to damn tired to sum them up.


http://mexfiles.net/2010/01/12/the-drug-war-at-the-end-of-the-world/

http://mexfiles.net/2009/11/21/a-rumor-of-war/

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. I apologize- I do not think the US wants effective border controls, either

I'd say there is- call it a 'synchronicity of corruption' amongst both nations.

The US gets cheap labor that can be deported if the laborer starts getting ideas "above his/her station":
a desire for safe working conditions or wage and hour protections, for example.

Mexico gets a safety valve that encourages the poor to go north, work hard and keep their heads down to avoid
la Migra. People are 2000 km. away from home working instead of hanging about wondering why the system doesn't
work.

The elites of both societies benefit from encouraging people to migrate north and take part in a rigged labor system.

I do not blame the undocumented, they are only trying to put food on the table. My father's family did pretty much the
same thing, save for traveling west over the ocean instead of north over land.

[spin]

13. A question:

As you say I am aware that the majority of the weapons in Mexico have mostly come through Central America. .

Do the drug cartels actually smuggle semi-auto "assault weapons" from the U.S. into Mexico? Or are these weapons being smuggled into Mexico for sale to civilians not involved in the drug war?

If I lived in Mexico, I would like to own firearms for self defense.

[Artie Bucco]

14. They do smuggle weapons

Lot's of ammunition too. You often times see AKs with no dimples on the receivers; that usually indicates that they are WASR series, semi-auto AKs. It is region specific I would say. In Northern Mexico a good deal of the weapons will be from the US simply because of geography. While the weapons belonging to cartel operating in Southern Mexico will most likely be from Central America. I have also heard rumors of there being private security companies founded in the US with the ability to buy Class III weapons that in turn give them to the Cartels. It shouldn't really be that surprising these groups may exist since the cartels do have the capital to create them. Weapon smuggling exists however, I believe that this is something that is best combated with good policing.

I would venture to say a good deal of the weapons smuggled into Mexico are going to be hunting rifles and pistols. Getting a weapon from the US into Mexico is a bureaucratic mess. Many of the weapons will just end up being used for plinking in someone's ranch.

Despite the violence in Mexico most Mexicans don't feel they need to purchase firearms for self defense. To be quite honest Mexico's murder rate is at about .10 per 1000 people. Murder rates are higher in Brazil at .25 and in Colombia at .30; hell Philadelphia in the US has a murder rate higher than those three countries. The general belief amongst people, and I tend to concur, is that the majority of people that are killed are either in cartels or in cahoots with them.

I really do hope that the War on Drugs comes to an end. It is something that is hurting and has hurt Latin America from the border city of Tijuana, the mountains of the Andes and the jungles of Colombia.

[spin]

15. I favor legalizing drugs ...

prohibition has never been successful.

[Xela]

16. BBC - Follow up story

Mexican drug gangs 'spread in US'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/8588509.stm

"Speaking in Mexico City earlier this week, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called for more efforts to tackle the social issues such as poverty that fuel the drugs trade."

Kudos Madame Secretary!!!!

Xela

[Artie Bucco]

17. Not surprising

The cartels have been international for quite a while and I am not just talking about links between the Americas. I remember reading about the Gulf Cartel forming links with the Italian Mafia around the Houston area.

[Callisto32]

18. BRRR! Wrong.

The root cause of the problem is prohibition. If these drugs were legal and readily available, the cartels would have nothing to sell at massive profits. No money, soon, no power. After that, they just have a bunch of pissed off former cartel workers that need to find jobs. If they want to do it growing pot at reasonable margins in the legit market, more power to them.

As it stands, we don't have a drug problem, we have a prohibition problem. People will ALWAYS use mood-altering substances.

[spin]

20. Exactly!!!! You hit the nail right on the head! (n/t)

[old mark]

21. Mexico is infamous for paying their police and military next to nothing.

If they were serious about any of this, they might start by improving pay and conditions for their officers and military people....Probably cut down on the number of guns that seem to find their way into the wrong hands.

FWIW, it is already illegal to buy guns in the US with the intent to sell them to another person who is not entitled to own them, such as drug gangs. There is a standard Federal form to be filled out when purchasing a gun, and that is the first question and it clearly states that buying a gun for someone else is illegal.

mark