Students Resist Colleges, Strap on Empty Holsters

[shadowrider]

HOUSTON, April 2 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- College students across America will once again strap on empty holsters in an act of silent protest against laws and policies banning licensed concealed carry on campus.

The protest, sponsored by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), will take place April 5-9, 2010 and comes on the heels of college administrators discriminating against concealed carry permit holders, and censoring students who disagree.

According to the group, colleges have repeatedly ignored or attempted to keep students from discussing the issue. In Pennsylvania, one college banned SCCC member Christine Brashier from handing out fliers about the group, stating, "You may want to discuss this topic but the college does not, and you cannot make us." Another college in Texas tried to block students from wearing the symbolic empty holsters on campus until a federal judge ruled that their ban violated the First Amendment. And a recent decision at Colorado State University overturned a long-standing policy that allowed concealed carry, despite the fact that crime on campus decreased rapidly since allowing concealed carry on campus, and no problems were reported among permit holders. The ban was opposed by students, Student Government, and local law enforcement.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-resist-colleges-strap-on-empty-holsters-89762397.html

[cowman]

1. Good for them

I hope they succeed in their endeavors to raise the awareness of crime on campus and the role of legally armed students with CHL's.

Back in my days of college it was a HUGE no no to even mention guns on campus

[Remmah2]

2. Fear of an empty holster?

You'd figure on a college campus they'd embrace the First Amendment. Go figure. I wonder if people are as afraid of pocket protectors on engineers?

[shadowrider]

4. Yup

Fear of something that isn't there (gun), and fear of something that is (empty holster).

As adamant about the many guns out there as some anti-gun people are, it's amazing they get out of bed every morning and dare to venture to their own bathroom.

[Kolesar]

3. Lucky for them they don't have anything real to protest about

Kids from my hometown protested the bombing of Cambodia and the draft. That took courage.

[cowman]

5. Nothing real to protest about?

What you consider nothing real is real to them and it does take courage to go against the powers that be, and why is it lucky

[damntexdem]

11. Yeah, and what Teabaggers protest about is real to them, too. And just as idiotic!

What is really disturbing is the number of posters on DU who push this idiocy!

[cowman]

13. What is disturbing

is the few who push the idiocy of trying to deny law abiding citizens the right to carry guns

[jazzhound]

101. Ironic that you should bring up Teabaggers!

Given the fact that support for gun control drops every year, folks with your attitude are becoming every bit as politically irrelevant as the Teabaggers.

But of course the Limbaughs of the Left can't be bothered with actual research, so they're unaware that there's not been one state to rescind concealed carry legislation as the list of states that allow for it increases.

[cabluedem]

18. now their children want the power of life and death on their hips. how grand. .Not!!!!

[cowman]

24. How about

when you drive a car? you've got the power of life or death on four wheels. A gun is not the power of life or death, a gun is a tool, the person holding the gun has the power of life or death.

[Merchant Marine]

27. 21 year olds are not children.

[cabluedem]

132. Yes they are if parents are paying for college and insurance costs.

[oneshooter]

39. Children? At 18 they can join the Military and be required to make

life/death decisions. At 21 the can legally own and possess a handgun and a CHL for it. What are your age limits on "Children"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Callisto32]

46. I was 22 when I engaged in this same kind of demonstration.

I was not a child.

I am now very near completing my second year of law school. That means I am training to solve problems for people. In ~18 months, a lot of things will be placed in my hands. Whether a person loses his child, or his life will, potentially, rest upon my competence. There are a lot of attorneys already, and they are already taking actions with these kinds of dire results. Society has decided people my age can be trusted with the lives of others in many ways.

We are not children.

[cowman]

52. Congrats on

becoming a Lawyer and good luck to a long and properous career

[Callisto32]

75. Lawyer in about a year + the bar exam, actually.

So I'll take that as "good luck." :toast:

[proteus_lives]

93. "Sniff"

Ahh, hypocrisy.

[Callisto32]

35. "My cause is bigger than your cause."

Fail.

Two years ago, I did this on my college campus, alone. Literally, I was the only one on campus that participated. If you think I wasn't at least a little bit scared of the reaction that I was going to get, you'd be wrong. I almost didn't do it. So, yeah it took some courage.

[one-eyed fat man]

109. Risky??

30 April 1970, I was a tank platoon sergeant in the 2nd Bn, 34th Armor and well into Cambodia. My perspective is a lot different. Except for burning down ROTC buildings and goading the Ohio National Guard into shooting what bravery are you talking about?

[dashrif]

111. Ah Centurion

HOOAH

[one-eyed fat man]

113. Close, but not quite.........

"Centurions" are the 1st Battalion, their colors were cased at Fort Riley last September.



The Second Battalion's motto was "Fear God...Dreadnaught!" The Dreadnaught nickname came from the Battle of Soui Tre.

http://www.knox.army.mil/center/ocoa/armormag/backissues/2000s/mj00/3suoitre00.pdf

[dashrif]

116. I

had a buddy who was in 1st bn before he whent to 11th ACR Black Horse in Irwin

[one-eyed fat man]

124. served in Blackhorse

when my regimental commander was Colonel George Patton. He pinned my fourth Bronze Star.

http://www.gmfarm.com/images/OurFounder%27sHeroesFields.pdf

[cowman]

125. Wow

4 Bronze Stars, I only earned 1 for action at Con Thien. My hats off to your service

[one-eyed fat man]

127. You guys in I Corps had it rough.

'Dreadnaught Charlie' was detached from our battalion for most of their time and just about the only armor in that area. They got attached, cross attached and lent out to the 101st, 5th Mech, Americal, the Marines, and just about everyone on the DMZ except the NVA.

Ours was a good cause. Too bad the south Vietnamese people who believed in us got sold out in 1975 by our government and Congress in particular. All the jihadists are resting easy knowing that given enough time, sooner or later we will quit. They are secure in the knowledge they don't have to beat the military, just outlast the politicians.

You gotta admire the guys on active duty now, we didn't have that kind of op-tempo to contend with. Forty years ago, We had more guys in Viet Nam alone than are on active duty world-wide today. Back then if you did more than two tours in Viet Nam, you likely volunteered. Now there are guys who have had 2 or 3 to Iraq and now headed to Afghanistan. It took me 26 years to serve in two wars and now there are soldiers who have done that before they complete their first enlistment.

The other pet peeve is those who have never worn the uniform and never spent a moment in harm's way second guessing decisions made during a firefight. Those "experts" are like a bunch of 10 year olds who finding the old man's stash of Playboys telling each other what sex be like.

[cowman]

128. I was

a US Navy Seabee and we helped fortify the Marine base, many a time I brought my dozer to scrape out trenches and such, got shot at many many times, fought alongside you guys frequently. Love you Marines.

My daughter is in the US Army Reserves as an MP and has done 3 tours to Iraq, the kid has seen more combat than I ever saw. She's also a Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Officer who serves the community honorably.

When I got discharged in 73 I swore I would never take another human life if possible so in 75 a friend of mine said he could get me a spot on the NV Test Site Fire Dept where I spent 5 years and then tested for the Las Vegas Fire Dept. in 80 and got hired on, been a Firefighter/Paramedic for 35 years now, will retire in Sept but will still volunteer at the local FD in the town I live in just to keep my Para license active/

I fully agree with you about armchair warriors who have absolutely no fucking clue what real combat is about and start second guessing about life or death decisions that have to be made during a firefight. They would probably shit there pants as arty was screaming overhead. I have nothing but contempt for those that think people like Bill Ayers, Jane Fonda, are heroes.

I'm glad you made it home in one piece, to you and all Marines, SEMPER FI, and to all my comrades in the US Navy Seabees, WE BUILD, WE FIGHT, WE PARTY ALL NIGHT, CAN DO

[dashrif]

126. Damm

almost got a silver oakleaf you are the man one eye lord only knows the shit you have seen thank you

[cowman]

115. Yeah that took

real courage:sarcasm: While myself and alot of other posters here where fighting and trying to survive day to day,you praise the people like Bill Ayers, Jane Fonda, and a whole host of other people who were burning down buildings, trying to bomb and kill police and just about any other authority figures. Yeah that took real courage to burn the draft cards. They or you have no clue what real courage is so take your crap elsewhere

[SteveM]

129. "Real" enough to get banned. Or maybe you didn't notice?...

Guess what: I organized and took part in many, many protests against the Vietnam War and in favor of Civil Rights. I still get out in the streets to protest the Mid-East wars and the W.O.D.

The protests by these students are no less genuine if for no other reason than the powers-that-be see more "reality" in them than you do; hence, the efforts to suppress the demonstrations.

[cowman]

131. Couldn't have said it better

myself. I have no problem with peaceful protesters, my problem is with people who think tha Bill Ayers, Jane Fonda, Tom Haden and all the others who advocated violence think they are the heroes. I especially will NEVER forgive Jane Fonda for what she did in N. Vietnam, as far as I'm concerned if she were to die tomorrow I would take a s**t on her grave and celebrate

[tburnsten]

145. I can't believe she has lived this long

I only hope she understands what she did to those POWs.

I have no idea why she wasn't brought up on treason charges for her actions, they are the definition of betrayal.

[SoCalNative]

6. Sorry

but I would never want to set foot on a campus where there are a bunch of hooligans (especially in Texas) carrying around guns, concealed or not.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. Better not go to state schools in Utah, Washington, or Alaska then.

All three allow guns on campus (with some restrictions).

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cowman]

19. Ahhhhhhhh yes

more insightful learned speech from the all knowing wise cabluedem.
Oh please great one impart your wisdom on us neanderthals:sarcasm: :rofl:

[cabluedem]

21. and you are here to do what? promote deadly weapon use? how sweet of you.

[cowman]

23. Why

Thank You

[cabluedem]

26. no thank you for admitting that your guns are needed to kill people you don't like.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Katya Mullethov]

60. I am pretty ambiguous about the whole thing

While I might find the threat of bodily injury to be irritating , I dont know that I would ever actually dislike whomever assumed me to be a soft target .

Their probation or parole officers are an entirely different story .

[oneshooter]

74. Whether I like them or not has little if anything to do with it.

If you are violating the sanctity of my home, removing items from my home without my permission, violently assaulting myself or a member of my family, or any one or combination of items will determine if I have to STOP YOU.
If you do none of those things then we can be content to leave each other to our lives.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Callisto32]

47. Right now, I am here to promote capitalization!

[tburnsten]

48. Fantastic.

[armueller2001]

25. That policy of

"no guns on campus period!!!" sure worked well at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University didn't it?

[oneshooter]

72. Does this include Law Enforcement and Security Officers?

If you want to truly have a "gun free" campus then you need to enclose the area in barbed wire, security checkpoints (including mandatory body searches), biometric ID's, spot searches for illegal weapons, Mandatory searches of all vehicles entering the campus( including ALL delivery vehicles and drivers), and allow anyone who is injured, or if killed their families, to sue the school and all officials of that school for any damages( both physical and mental) that were caused by a illegal firearm within the borders of the campus. Also any Law Enforcement officers would have to check in all of their firearms and batons before entering the gates, GUN FREE MEANS GUN FREE!!!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Merchant Marine]

29. All CSU and UC cops are armed...

And in my humble college experience are a bunch of powertripping thugs just waiting to "smoke" someone. In between they amuse themselves with illegal search and seizure and random tazings.

[Callisto32]

49. The obvious solution is to trust only police with such weapons!

[cabluedem]

57. no we should allow every student to pack a gun to class. it will be safer, right/

[tburnsten]

61. Every student licensed to carry a concealed firearm, yes

That is exactly what we have been saying, good to see you finally come around to the logical position.

[cabluedem]

65. do you remember what being a teenager was like? no thanks to then packing guns.

[tburnsten]

66. I'm sorry you seem to have gotten confused

or maybe you just don't know what kind of campus is being discussed here.

It's college campuses that are being discussed, not high school campuses. The majority of states that have a mechanism for licensing adults for concealed carry (adults, not children, just making sure you don't forget between now and whenever you respond) set the minimum age for a carry permit at 21.

A 21 year old adult is not a "teenager", sad to have to inform you.

[ManiacJoe]

78. Good explanation.

21 year olds would be roughly half the junior class and most of the seniors.

[SteveM]

130. Yeah, man! Gene Pitney, The Four Tops, Stones, Beatles, Supremes...

That and tons of demonstrations. And hunting on the weekends. Hell, I still do some of that.

[cabluedem]

55. right. all cops are bad ans ccw gun packers are honest law abiding citizens.

[tburnsten]

58. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Can you disprove the numerous posts here showing data on the unusually low numbers of citizens with carry permits who commit crimes?

Non-permit holding citizens commit crimes drastically more often than permit holders, and I'm not sure I understand what you mean about police. Most of them are fine, but many of them are truly in it for the wrong reasons, or see themselves as somehow not civilians.

[cowman]

63. She wont believe the stats

she's already said that they are made up

[cowman]

59. I've been a CHL

holder for several years now and I am law abiding, how do you explain that, and why do most street cops, not political cops, but street cops, like my daughter who is a Las Vegas Metro Police Officer, support law abiding citizens right to carry concealed, and please try to answer without the insults ok?

[paulsby]

123. THIS street cop supports RKBA as well

as do most of my coworkers.

[Merchant Marine]

88. I'm just making an observation based on the people I deal with on campus

Seems to me they all qualified with a 9mm pencil.

And statistics support that cops shoot more innocents than CCW holder each year. And that's not an absolute number, percentagewise the cops "win" too.

[oneshooter]

69. So to you all CHL holders are"hooligans"?

How very open minded and progressive you are. Maybe you should stay in California, and let Texans decide on the laws in Texas.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[paulsby]

87. stay off the university of washington campus then

gunz are legal here. oh noes

[cabluedem]

133. keep your guns off UC campuses too.

[cowman]

134. Give it up

be honest with yourself, support for gun control is declining as more and more states allow for citizens to carry legally Hell right now you cant even leave Kalifornia without entering a state that is shall issue. And before you know it, Kalifornia will become a shall issue state whether you want to aknowledge it or not.

[cabluedem]

135. You can give up. quitters never win and I don't quit.

I would thought you big shots would put up a fight but I guess that's why you pack guns on your hips.

[cowman]

139. Give up fighting?

you dont know the meaning of fighting, when I was in Vietnam I never gave up during a firefight, as a firefighter I have never given up on a fire, as a Paramedic I never gave up on a patient until the patient was called, so dont expect me to ever give up defending the 2nd Amend.. Your post doesn't even make any sense.

You really should let go of all that hatred for gun owners as it will burn you up inside, I know from personal experience what hatred does to the human soul

Have a great day and a great life

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jazzhound]

142. "Guns can and will be regulated, whether you like it or not."

Gun laws are becoming increasingly liberal, and Democrats (generally speaking) are recognizing in greater numbers that gun control is a political disaster. But you just keep blathering on, despite what the facts tell the sane viewer.

I'd *really* like to sample whatever it is that you're smokin'.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jazzhound]

144. Keep on dreamin'. It's apparently all you live for. n/t

[cabluedem]

137. No sane person would. But the NRA crowd are not sane.

[Hoopla Phil]

7. k and r

[damntexdem]

10. Hey, I'm all for allowing empty holsters on campus -- but students should be expelled for guns.

Zero tolerance for guns on campuses!

[cowman]

12. Why?

If they've gone thru all the necessary steps to obtain a CHL what is the problem? I would think that legally armed students could potentially prevent what happened at VT or is it your oppoosition to any americans being able to have CHL's?

[friendly_iconoclast]

14. Any especial problems with legal guns on college campuses you'd like to cite?

It's legal for students to have guns on campus in at least three states (Alaska, Washington, and Utah).

[paulsby]

122. i was on the UW campus a few days ago

it's really frustrating having to constantly duck gunfire.

[cabluedem]

20. if they want guns that bad go off and join the army. they can die with a gun in thier hands.

[cowman]

22. Well just

too bad for you that we have what is called the 2nd Amend, maybe you've heard of it, which gives me the right, rather you like it or not, to own guns and the state of NV gives me the right to carry it concealed.
BTW, I did carry a firearm in a war and didn't die in combat, matter of fact I became pretty proficient with a firearm.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tburnsten]

34. Check these out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=288003&mesg_id=288003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7623624


While you didn't get around to using such loaded terminology as "gun-nut" yet, accusing another poster of wanting to go murder people in cold blood because he supports licensed concealed carry can't in good conscience be described as "civil" by anyone.

Please try to get a grip cabluedem.

[cabluedem]

62. concealed carry holders of guns are not "civil" by definition IMO.

[tburnsten]

64. Your post doesn't make any sense, but at least you did throw an IMO in there

This time.

Could you tell me why someone who has gone to the trouble to get licensed to carry a concealed firearm is not civil by default?

[cowman]

70. You made the claim

show us the proof or is this just another rant?

[Euromutt]

96. You're the expert

Considering I don't recall you ever making a post in this sub-forum that was civil.

[one-eyed fat man]

110. Nice touch..........

cast aspersions on all the members of the military and all the veterans who sacrificed so you could voice your opinions.

Nice to see you have staked out a nice high moral position where you can look down on those you depend on to do what you won't do for yourself!

[cabluedem]

28. amen to that. if schools are so unsafe the students need guns, we need to close it down.

[cowman]

31. Nobody said schools are unsafe

why shouldn't students who have gone thru the process to get a CHL be allowed to conceal carry? Or is it just your visceral hatred for guns that you can never have an honest debate without resorting to insults and name calling?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tburnsten]

41. And now you are telling a fellow DUer to commit suicide.

I see a tombstone in your very near future here.

[cowman]

44. Ahhh I wouldn't worry

about what she says, she is just very anti-gun and usually gets out of hand and then has her posts deleted, but thanks for the comment

[tburnsten]

50. You'd think after having what, a dozen posts deleted

in a single day she would at least attempt to get a grip on herself.

[cowman]

53. You would think so

but some people just seem to never learn, Awhile back on another OP she actually called me a gun loving warmonger. Needless to say her post was deleted pretty fast

[cowman]

42. Sorry

Quit drinking over 35 years ago. The city of Las Vegas, my employer, takes a dim view of it and in my line of work I've seen too many times what drugs and alcohol does to a person.

[Callisto32]

51. Yeah...

Actually trying to SOLVE a problem is just too damn difficult, eh?

[PavePusher]

82. Or perhaps you'd be willing to personally guarantee...

the safety and security of those students? Well?

Put up or shut up.

[krispos42]

117. So when are you going to close down South Central LA? n/t

[paulsby]

121. ah, the need canard

if houses are so prone to burning down that people need to have fire insurance, we need to ban houses

[PavePusher]

81. Zero tolerance for legal adults....

peacefully exercising their Civil Rights?


You are probably on the wrong web site, friend.

[X_Digger]

16. k&r n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. I am sure we will see a few empty holsters on our campus

and everyone will be buzzing over it. Had a few in my classes last time around. Its not a big deal and I enjoy the furor it engenders. It really spins up some of my colleagues

[tburnsten]

37. That's the spirit!

Open discussion and exchange of ideas is truly the American way!

And ordinarily is a big hallmark of a progressive or decent person.

What did your colleagues have to say about it all?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. I see it as a good thing

but many of them are horrified and claim it is totally disruptive to the campus atmosphere. When I engaged on it, and compared it to other protests as such, they were shocked. Finally a friend pointed out that baiting them was unsportsmanlike. Its an issue so fraught with emotion that on campus there is little possibility of reasonable discourse.

[jazzhound]

91. Do my eyes deceive me?

A truly progressive professor who believes in *all* civil rights?!?!?! ;-)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

94. I am also a firearms instructor with my own private range

I tend to teach the GLBT crowd who often feel uncomfortable at regular ranges and few of my grad students.

Here in CA the conceal carry on campus is pretty minimal since few can get CCW permits here. It will be a bigger issue when things change from may issue to shall issue.

[jazzhound]

140. I like your final sentence! n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

43. "Strap on" holsters? Is this a veiled "penis/inadequacy" reference?

While technically correct, use of the choice phrase "strap on" may have a double entendre, here.
Could be a freudian slip on the part of the colmnist, too, I suppose.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cowman]

56. How many posts

have you had deleted today so far? Going for the record?
Try having an honest debate without the name calling or insults if possible

[Euromutt]

71. If so, what to make of my preferred platform...

...namely the paddle holster? Do I have an unconscious urge to engage in BDSM?

[tburnsten]

73. Don't be ridiculous.

Everyone knows it isn't subconscious for Europeans.

[Euromutt]

97. Touché! (n/t)

[aikoaiko]

45. I'd love to see this on my campus!

The college admin would freak out.

[a la izquierda]

67. From a soon-to-be college professor...

I'll pass. I've had threatening students who didn't have a gun; I can not imagine if they'd had one. Last year, a professor was nearly kidnapped by a student carrying a gun on campus.

[tburnsten]

68. Was the student licensed to carry concealed?

Or did he just have a gun on campus? They are not the same thing by the way.

[a la izquierda]

77. I have no clue.

I'm not sure how/why it would have mattered in this case The person was mentally not all there.

[PavePusher]

83. "mentally not all there"

Unless that was a diagnosis by a physician, I'll have to take that with a large grain of salt. One person's calm rationality is another persons madness. Very subjective.

Also, what do you mean by "nearly kidnapped"?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but you threw out some very strong accusations and offered no evidence. News report? Cite?

[a la izquierda]

103. Oh for the love of god...

I don't care about people owning guns. But when I'm going to feel nervous every day about going to work, I'd like to know who's going to defend my right to feel safe (because, um, that's part of Liberty).
But, here's your evidence, to prove that I'm not making shit up.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090213_298_0_NRAnvr145615
http://oudaily.com/news/2009/feb/19/childers-charged-kidnapping-bail-set-100000/?print (RE: Mental Health)
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=9863525

By the way, there's enough mental illness in my family that I wouldn't make a claim like that lightly. He was on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, but not under the current care of a physician. Probably not all there. And not his first brush with the law regarding women.

[tburnsten]

104. No it isn't

You have no right to feel anything. You have rights to be left to live your life in peace, you have rights based on the government's banned powers enumerated in the Bill of Rights, and you have the right to peacefully engage in any activity not prohibited by a constitutionally sound law.

In other words, my right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose. So does yours.

[GreenStormCloud]

106. Your self-efense is YOUR responsibility and no one else's.

Further, you don't have a right to feel safe.

[PavePusher]

107. Thank you for the response.

You are correct, that fellow has some issues.

But I will note he is certainly exceptional in his actions. Were this sort of thing the norm, I think we'd hear about it.

Note also, as the above two responders have said, your safety and protection is, first and last, your own responsibility. The professor you reference had to wait until others were available to help her, because she apparently took no precautions. I am not trying to imply that she is to blame for the incident, just that the results are instructional.

Please, point to the "right to feel safe". If you can find it, you'll be the first.

[tburnsten]

86. It matters because the discussion is about licensed to carry adults

Who have certain guidelines they must follow and standards they must meet to become licensed. So if the person is just some random nutter off the street or disgruntled student with less sense than a bag of hammers, sans carry permit, they really aren't relevant to this discussion in any way.

Except as a sterling example if the reason many of us here on DU are completely in favor of college campuses having the same rules as it relates to licensed adults as any other public area. Being kidnapped is not good, generally if a person transports you during a crime against you it is not a good omen for your survival chances.

[aikoaiko]

76. That kidnapping sounds like a reason for faculty, staff and students to carry.

Criminals will do it anyway.

[a la izquierda]

79. Maybe...

I can't guarantee I wouldn't take a job at a university that allowed students to carry, but universities will limit their talent pool.

[aikoaiko]

80. Could be.

But there are plenty of talented PhDs looking for jobs who won't care either way.

[jazzhound]

90. Might want to check out post #89

Hasn't been *one* negative gun-related incident at one of the schools that allows for concealed carry since the right was granted. And that includes gun theft!

Hasn't been *one* state that has been affected negatively since they allowed for concealed carry -- and the number of states that allow is now up to 40.......with Iowa soon to join the ranks.

With all of the evidence that concealed carry hasn't resulted in increased violence, you would think that in an honest environment the onus would now be on the anti-carry folks to justify their fear.

And regarding the limiting of the talent pool? Don't think so. Not everyone is allergic to truth.

[paulsby]

120. they will limit their idiot pool

since non-idiots will look at statistics (utah, WA state etc.) and see that student carry =/= higher crime

in fact, some of the safest campuses allow student carry


hth

[jody]

85. Perhaps your dean should encourage professors to exercise their RKBA if it's legal. n/t

[proteus_lives]

95. Because gun-free zones work so well.

If the kidnapper-student was black, would be afraid of black people?

[GreenStormCloud]

114. But guns are not allowed on your campus. So how did the student have a gun? N/T

[friendly_iconoclast]

138. She disappeared after that question was asked. Seems like it shook up her worldview.

Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

[jody]

84. Typical DU Guns thread with pro-RKBA Democrats armed with facts versus anti-RKBA armed with fantasy.

To paraphrase Sean Connery, "Never bring fantasy to a fact fight".

[jazzhound]

89. And on the subject of facts:

From the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus website: (common arguments)

Argument: Guns on campus would lead to an escalation in violent crime.

Answer: Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft. Likewise, none of the forty ‘right-to-carry’ states has seen a resulting increase in gun violence since legalizing concealed carry, despite the fact that licensed citizens in those states regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks, etc. Numerous studies*, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes.

"Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997);

“An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant, September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State,

“Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association

As jody has pointed out, more of the usual hysteria from the usual suspects, and more facts from the pro gun rights side.

[K8-EEE]

92. Glad my daughter goes to a nice hippy UC in No CA

guns at school< jeez when did we become SO paranoid??

[ProgressiveProfessor]

98. Legal carry on campus is not really a serious issue here in California since it is fairly rare

First of all you have to be 21 to own handguns and most students are not that old. Then you have to get a CCW permit which in CA means the sheriff has to like you or you have a really good reason, so it tends to be somewhat capricious. In Orange County the sheriff has no friends and no reason is good enough. Hopefully she is voted out of office shortly. Kern County is the easiest one in California based on need. LEOs, retired LEOs, Feds etc are all allowed to carry if their department allows it off duty/retired.

That said, most campuses are not all that safe after dark and on the weekends. Students tend to better armed than many realize with stun guns, pepper spray, knives, and firearms. There are "tells" and I have cautioned a few students to be more discrete. Hopefully you daughter has good street sense and *something* in her purse.

[tburnsten]

99. Your posts are so eminently rational

That I just added you to my buddy list. Hope you don't mind.

[Euromutt]

100. Around the time we learned that...

Cho managed to shoot 57 people in the 10-12 minutes before the cops (almost) got to him. Or so I would surmise.

[jazzhound]

102. So how many more school shootings have to occur in this country

before law-abiding citizens who choose to calmly and safely arm themselves for protection avoid the dishonest label of "paranoids"?

Seriously ---- give us a number. Three more? Eight more? Twelve more?

[proteus_lives]

105. That's hilarious.

The hippy is glad his children submit to authority.

[PavePusher]

108. Irony must be nutritious.

I can't think of any other reason so many eat so much of it.

[Katya Mullethov]

112. Along with the 8 vitamins

It's all part of a nutritious breakfast .

[krispos42]

118. Most colleges have annual crime reports published.

Rapes, robberies, assaults, drug busts, murders, car thefts, etc. Might want to have a look at those numbers for your daughter's nice hippy college and see if it increases or decreased your worries.

[paulsby]

119. is Univ of Wash paranoid?

guns perfectly legal on that campus

[cabluedem]

136. Eight years of * will do that.