Arizona House votes to allow carrying concealed weapons without a permit.

[Bluebear]

PHOENIX – The Arizona House voted Thursday to make the state the third in the nation to allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, sending the governor a bill that would allow Arizonans to forego background checks and classes that are now required.

The legislation, approved by the House 36-19 without discussion, would make it legal for most U.S. citizens 21 or older to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona without the permit now required. Currently, carrying a hidden firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500.

Sen. Russell Pearce, a Mesa Republican who sponsored the measure, said last week that he added changes requested by Gov. Jan Brewer's office, an indication that she is likely to sign it. The governor can sign or veto the measure, or allow it to become law without action.

If the legislation is enacted, Arizona would join Alaska and Vermont in not requiring permits to carry concealed weapons. Forty-five other states require permits for hidden guns, and two states — Illinois and Wisconsin — prohibit them altogether.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_concealed_weapons_arizona

[my2sense]

1. Wild Wild West - here we come n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

8. Hasn't happened yet. Don't the anti-gun people get tired of that prediction?

Everytime there is a victory for gun-rights, those opposed to it claim that it is Wild West time, and it doesn't happen. And it won't happen this time either.

[paulsby]

14. considering the "wild west" hollywood image is mostly mythological

it's ironic that they use this meme

[GreenStormCloud]

15. True. The "Wild West" was much tamer than modern time.

Street crime was virtually unknown in the West, although it was common in the East.

[Katya Mullethov]

32. I thought he was tops

For cryin' out loud , the guy had his own train !


This is both the exact period and location you are referencing . (1960's Television)

[demosincebirth]

2. Absolutely amazing!

Being so close to California and still nothing has rubbed off.

[cowman]

43. Yup

because Kalifornia is so nutty unlike most of the rest of the nation. NV is so close also and we look with contempt at Kalifornia and their insane politics

[onehandle]

3. Why burden gunslingers with any law?

They should give them 'unlaw zones' that extend six inches from their bodies.

Like little portable countries.

This would probably appeal to a lot of secessionist teabaggers.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. Why don't you regale us with stories of the bloody streets of Anchorage and Burlington?

I mean, there must be lots of them out there for you to find, since Alaska and Vermont already have these laws...

[gorfle]

33. That's a great question.

Why burden gunslingers with any law?

That's a great question. The fact of the matter is, most firearm owners are law-abiding, and most firearm laws only affect them and have no effect on the criminal element of society.

Moreover, most firearm murders, probably over 90%, are committed by people with extensive prior criminal histories, usually violent histories.

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

So the reality is that passing firearm laws that don't directly affect criminals is an absolute wast of time.

[Gman]

4. Now that's just fucking stupid

no other words for it. With all the problems they have in AZ with the drug war spilling over from Mexico, they make it legal for any living and breathing low life to pack a gun and no one has to know.

[X_Digger]

6. No, that would be legal for anyone currently not prohibited..

.. ie, convicted felons, those adjudicated mentally incompetent, those with a protective order against them, etc.

[JonLP24]

7. That's unfortunate

Because any amount of cannabis found one you is felony in AZ. First offense is a plea deal to receive a class 1 misdemeanor provided you go through a year of probation and give your money to the DEA. If you don't it's bumped up to a felony. Meanwhile you can carry guns in bars.

[X_Digger]

18. The WOD is ridiculous..

[Katya Mullethov]

30. They both appear so bipartisan and industrious

Appearances are everything .

[Euromutt]

26. "Meanwhile you can carry guns in bars" -- I doubt that

Title 18, Section 922 of the U.S. Code prohibits a person under indictment for a felony from possessing a firearm. There's probably a state law to similar effect as well. So until the charge is officially reduced to a misdemeanor, it's illegal for you to possess any firearm, and thus you would not be able to legally carry one, concealed or otherwise.

[JonLP24]

39. What are you refuting?

Arizona guns in bars.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31683427/ns/us_news-life/

I'm not disputing the felony aspect at all. It's unfortunate that someone with an empty bag of residue of cannabis can't access firearm. It's more of a factor of the stupid drug law than it is the gun law. Meanwhile no one cares if firearm owners drinks alcohol.

[cowman]

40. Are you fuckin kidding me

Why the hell should anyone care if firearm owners drink as long as they aren't in possession of said firearms at the time. So just because I own guns I should be banned from drinking? BTW the cops do care if someone who is in possession of a gun is drinking. Get your facts straight

[JonLP24]

41. You're misunderstanding me

I'm criticizing the ridiculous cannabis laws. Notice I said ANY amount meaning a simple seed could result in a felony and therefore unable to get a firearm.

By could I mean if you fight the charge and lose it's a felony. First offense, you could so a plea deal and receive a class 6 misdemeanor and go through probation and a fine to the DEA. Second, third, fourth, so on, offense is a felony every time.

[cowman]

44. You are right about

the cannibis law. If they would just legalize certain drugs, most of the drug violence would abate and states would have a great source of income by taxing the drug so there I agree with you, where I disagree is that noone cares if gun owners are drinking while carrying.

[JonLP24]

45. I didn't say anything about drinking and carrying

I said no one cares if owners drink. I wasn't saying that I did either.

I was comparing laws as well that any amount can result in a felony(therefore unable to get a firearm) and that you could carry guns into bars. Both of those statements are true. While going to a bar doesn't mean you will drink, there is only one reason why I would go to a bar.

[cowman]

46. Then

I apologize, but the way it was worded it seemed like you said that no one cared if gun owners were drinking while carrying

[JonLP24]

49. I apologize for not being clear

I'll clarify where I stand on gun rights in general and why I showed up.

I'm a pretty far left guy but I'm in favor of gun rights. This bill doesn't bother me but I can't stand the guy who wrote the bill. I may be more extreme than some of you meaning non-violent felony offenders should be able to get a firearm. I've seen cases where someone shoots someone that was trying to kill them, and while they weren't even charged for the death(because it was justified), they still had to serve time because they had a firearm they weren't supposed to have because of a prior record. People with prior records I'm sure face the same threats in the world as someone with a completely clean record. However I can understand why people would be uncomfortable with that.

With that said odds are I'll never own a firearm. The odds aren't high enough for me to justify owning one and I have 3 dogs so that decreases the odds enough for me that someone will try to break in. More then anything I won't own one is I don't want the responsibility that comes with owning one. I'm not worried if anyone decides to own one, I'm not scared of people with guns as I've been around them during my life. My ex-brother-in-law carried guns and I carried a M-16 one tour overseas. The only thing I really worry about is that owners should keep them away from curious teenagers and kids. When I was 14 living with my grandparents for 6 months, my grandpa kept a gun in a mirror cabinet in the bathroom in the hall way rather than the bathroom in the master bedroom. While I was smart enough not do anything stupid that's a problem.

I came in here because it involved my state and my State Senator wrote the bill which I can't stand. It has nothing to do with this issue, it would be like Bachmann writing a bill like this if you understand what I mean. I wasn't going to post but when I saw the word felony and can't get a gun I just pointed out that was unfortunate because having a residue bag of cannabis can get a felony in this state. I think someone who uses cannabis should have every right to a firearm as someone who drinks alcohol.

[Euromutt]

50. I misunderstood your use of the word "meanwhile"

I thought that, by "meanwhile," you meant that someone can carry in an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages while that person is hammering out the plea bargain on the possession charge.

[Gman]

42. The point completely evades you

that's fucking stupid.

[X_Digger]

48. Your opinion.. it's not been a problem in Vermont

The same prohibitions apply, and those likely to follow them will. Those that won't- don't.

[PavePusher]

19. OMG!!

They'll turn into a 365-day-a-year blood bath, just like Vermont!!

Oh, wait... :eyes:

This may actually help many people exercise their right to lawful bearing of arms and self-defense. Wouldn't that be a pity... :sarcasm:

[Callisto32]

29. So, you think that the people you don't want "packing" are magically not doing so now?

Open your eyes. The criminal element does not respect law...by definition.

[cowman]

36. Now that just stupid

no other words for it, why dont you grow a brain

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. Massive Darwin Awards competition coming up, you know.

Betcha one of those concealed states will have a lot of entries.

[GreenStormCloud]

10. Why? Hasn't happened yet.

Vermont has always allowed any non-prohibited person to carry. Alaska has for several years. Nothing drastic has happened. Noting drasic will happen in AZ. In fact, nobody will notice the difference, except that criminals will be a bit more nervous about attacking a citizen.

[PavePusher]

20. Evidence, please...?

Or are you making declarations from a state of ignorance?

[Euromutt]

25. Under what conditions would you lose that bet?

If the number of firearms deaths in Arizona doesn't increase more rapidly than the national average for a year after this law enters into force, would you concede you were wrong? Two years? Five?

See, your prediction sounds a lot like the "every fender-bender will lead to a shootout/the streets will run red with blood"-type predictions that the gun control lobby made every single time a state considered adopting "shall issue" legislation for concealed carry permits, and which failed to come true every single time.

In his (now 20 year-old) article A Field Guide to Critical Thinking (http://www.csicop.org/si/show/field_guide_to_critical_thinking/), the first principle college professor James Lett lists is falsifiability.

It must be possible to conceive of evidence that would prove the claim false.

It may sound paradoxical, but in order for any claim to be true, it must be falsifiable. <...> The rule of falsifiability is essential for this reason: If nothing conceivable could ever disprove the claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known — the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence. This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless.

This is why I ask people who make predictions like yours what, by their own admission, would prove their prediction false.

[cowman]

37. Spoke like someone

who has no clue

[benEzra]

9. ZOMG, they're going to be like VERMONT!!!

Vermont has had this policy for many years, and they're one of the safest states in the nation. Given that criminals carry anyway, and carrying for criminal purposes is still a crime, I doubt this will change much one way or the other.

[proteus_lives]

23. You and your facts!

Antis hate those.

[xchrom]

11. I'll stay out of Arizona then. Nt

[aikoaiko]

13. But then how will you support all those AZ restaurants with no firearms signs?

:shrug:

[GreenStormCloud]

16. AZ won't miss you. N/T

[TheWraith]

17. Vermont too?

I was just through Vermont the other day. It's not dangerous in the least.

[PavePusher]

21. Don't let door hit your fifth point... n/t

[proteus_lives]

22. No big loss for AZ.

[benEzra]

27. Better stay out of Vermont, too.

Since Arizona is copying Vermont's laws here.

[cognoscere]

35. Please stay out of Wisconsin too.

The state already has an over supply of people who can't think.

[cowman]

38. while your

at it, stay out of NV because we are allowed to carry concealed. Ohhhh Noooooo

[aikoaiko]

12. OMG! ONOZ!

[Travis Coates]

28. Permitless Open Carry

Is legal right now in Arizona. How does my gun suddenly become more dangerous because i can now filp a T shirt over it?

[Callisto32]

31. Because now anybody can be OMGz Scurry!!@11@

and the folks that don't like guns will never ever know. Fear of the unknown, man. The same thing that leads children (and many adults) to not like the dark.

[Travis Coates]

47. So, What you're telling me

Is that nothing changes but the perception of someone who doesn't trust me W/a gun anyway.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

34. Damn... I always wanted to move to Scottsdale/Pheonix.

Now the thought is damn near irresistable.
Looks like I'll heave to head out west sooner than later.