Sheriff To Texas Border Town: 'Arm Yourselves'

[gorfle]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125737965&sc=fb&cc=fp

"You farmers, I'm telling you right now, arm yourselves. As they say the old story is, it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. Damn it, I don't want to see six people carrying you."

- Hudspeth County Sheriff Arvin West

Good advice from the local sheriff.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Translation: I'm worthless.

I hope he gives up his job. Why pay him if he cant do anything.

[onehandle]

3. Exactly right. nt

[cowman]

4. Yeah right

easy for you to say, are you there? Do you even have a clue of whats happening and since when did the Sheriff's Dept have a duty to be every where? All he is saying is arm yourself because by the time LE arrives, they'll probably be drawing a chalk outline. We are responsible for our own immediate protection.

[Katya Mullethov]

6. What a provincial thing to say

I lulled again ! Isnt it absolutely preposterous ? There is a group of chain smoking kids from Basston headed out that way at this very moment to start a commune so they can "live off the land" and "grow crops " . Crops hell , I just wanna see that well get dug .

[dairydog91]

5. Lolololol

Fort Hancock is about an hour drive from Ciudad Juarez. No small town community has a police force capable of posting a guard near everyone, which is pretty much what you'd need to feel safe in that area of the country.

Edit: What do you suggest the sheriff do to keep people safe? Judging by the snark, you must have some idea. Quick, how does a small-town sheriff protect everyone in a Texas/Mexico border town? Keep in mind, the center of Fort Hancock is about a mile from the border, and there is a strong risk of incursion from the Zetas, some of whom have US special forces training and military-grade equipment.

[davepc]

9. A rancher with an AR-15 won't do much good against a bunch of cartel memebers intent on murder

The cartel members probably have more training and experience killing people, for one.

Not that it's a bad idea to have your own means of self defense. But if their are incursions by the narco-gangs across the border then it'll take more then personal firearms to solve the problem.

Sounds like a good job for the national guard or a local militia operating under the sanction of the state government.

[gorfle]

11. Maybe, maybe not.

As has been said many times, firearms are no guarantee of safety, they simply give you the option and chance to defend yourself.

I'm all for additional state help, but ultimately, the final responsibility for one's safety lies with oneself.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. A rancher with a 90mm recoiless cannon or a GE Minigun might do a good job though.

:shrug:

[ManiacJoe]

16. Those are on a cost level orders of magnitude higher

Lots more paperwork and fees.
Lots higher cost to purchase.
Way higher cost to feed with ammo.

[Pavulon]

21. Just because they have killed people does not make them trained.

Being able to hit a target at a distance with a rifle from cover is a nice skill to have. From distance 0 to 400 yards. I prefer something in the 7.62 range, m14 or a fal would get the job done.

If I lived somewhere I needed a battle rifle, I would move.

[spin]

26. Chances are you would never have to use your firearm ...

living in the country has its advantages.

Currently I live inside the city limits of a small town but I plan to move into the country. Of course, I will be adequately armed.

I have more than enough firepower to handle the city, but when I move I probably will invest in a AR10.



The main reason would be to hunt wild hog as they are downright tasty and are all over the area I'm considering moving to.

I do agree that if I lived somewhere where I might be attacked by drug smugglers crossing the border, I would consider moving. Perhaps the drug gangs will try to drive the residents out and they probably will be successful.

[Pavulon]

27. Agree. Dogs are a effective deterrent to most people

I can see the POV that if I grew up on a farm my family worked I would be hesitant to leave. Dogs tend to make most people move on down the road. If a live and let live arrangement could not be made a more effective solution than a rifle can be legally purchased in Arizona with a valid drivers license. Barring that tie to the land, or something that basically justifies guerrilla war against a drug cartel i would move for sure.

I have not seen any cases of these guys targeting farmers in the news as of yet.

If i was there as long as they dont bother me I could care less about a dope war.

[GreenStormCloud]

41. What about the criminals that aren't afraid of a dog.

A shot of pepper spray will take care of most dogs, or a stun baton. A 250,000 volts shock tends to change any dog's mind. Now that Phideaux (That's Cajun for Fido) is out of the way, you will have to deal with the assailant yourself.

NOTE: Cajuns tend to be heavily armed and self sufficient. Attempting a burglary of an occupied Cajun's home is a very high risk event.

[Pavulon]

43. The barking dog

would serve as warning. Any person coming through the dogs is a true threat and appropriate force could be used to stop them.

[GreenStormCloud]

44. True, that would serve to demonstrate their intent. N/T

[tburnsten]

45. It isn't the ranchers job to solve the problem

But it's the rancher's problem to survive the situation.

You think in the event of an incursion to spread general mayhem they wouldn't just move on if someoe in a house started firing back at them?

You are right, resolving the situation would be a job for the state National Guard, but in the meantime, it's up to the people of that area to keep themselves safe.

[Artie Bucco]

12. Zetas are just a name now.

The original core of the 50 or so that was composed of defected soldiers who where trained in the "The School of the Americas" is either in jail or dead.

[spin]

7. Obviously, you feel that the government and police should protect you ...

against all ills.

Reality is a harsh mistress.

[gorfle]

10. Just because the police can't be everywhere all the time does not make them useless.

Translation: I'm worthless. I hope he gives up his job. Why pay him if he cant do anything.

I don't see why you would come to this conclusion.

Police are hardly ever present during the commission of crimes. Police almost always show up after the crime has already been committed, to gather evidence and question witnesses to aid in the prosecution of the crime.

This police chief is simply acknowledging this fact.

If you are counting on the police to insure your safety, you could be in for a nasty surprise. Even the courts have held that the police are not responsible for the safety of the public at large, except for people in their custody.

[Callisto32]

15. A sheriff has neither the ability nor the obligation to protect YOU.

That is your job. Ask the Supreme Court.

[PavePusher]

17. One man and a few deputies vs. how much territory?

Don't be a jerk.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Here is the county. It is huge.

Kind of hard to cover that much territory with only a few deputies.

[Mother Smuckers]

22. Yep, it is bigger than Delaware and Rhode Island COMBINED

Some people just have no concept of scale, apparently.

[one-eyed fat man]

23. Hudspeth County, Texas

The county has a total area of 4,572 square miles and a population density of 0.7 people per square mile.

By comparison, the Atlanta metro area has nearly 5.5 million people jammed into 535 square miles. That works out to 16.1 persons per acre or 1 person every 17 yards.

At 1,639 officers, the Atlanta Police Department is almost equals the entire population of Hudspeth county but is responsible for only 12% as much territory. What many city dwellers cannot fathom is there are places in this country that are miles and hours from help. And when help does come it is more likely to be on horseback than helicopter.

[spin]

24. Often people who live in large urban areas ...

have no idea of what it is like to live in a rural area.

Police often have a hard time to respond quickly in a big city. Imagine the response time when you have a problem and the nearest cop is 20 or 30 miles away.

When seconds count and the police are minutes to hours away, you are on your own. Best to be prepared.

[Mother Smuckers]

25. And even considering that disparity, in densely populated areas/cities it is not unusual to wait

from 20 to 60 minutes for a response to an urgent request. I worked my way through college as a policeman in a medium sized city in the US and it was VERY rare that we were able to get to the scene of a crime -in commission- quickly enough to do much about it, much less -prevent- it. There were times we didn't even come close to 'preventing', I remember one night we drove past the offices of a finance company and saw people inside vacuuming the carpets with every light in the place burning brightly.
They waved at us when we passed as their friends were in back drilling open the safe. We responded to many crimes after the fact...that's pretty easy to do.


shrug

[one-eyed fat man]

28. How about days???

Didn't some poor shmuck in Pittsburgh DIE because the EMT's were too wimpy to go a few blocks in snow?

http://wduqnews.blogspot.com/2010/04/paramedic-fired.html

"Pittsburgh officials have fired paramedic Josie Dimon following the death of 50 year old Curtis Mitchell of Hazelwood who waited 30 hours for an ambulance during the early February storm that dumped nearly 2 feet of snow on the city. Mitchell and his girlfriend called 9-1-1 ten times seeking help for his abdominal pain. Medics say they could not reach the house asked Mitchell to walk a couple of blocks to their ambulance. Crew Chief Kim Long and district chiefs Norman Auvil and Ron Curry were suspended without pay for 3 days apiece.

It's believed Dimon was fired because a tape released by public safety officials included profane remarks she made while waiting to see if Mitchell would walk to the ambulance. The union has said it would challenge the disciplining of its members."

Starting with Kitty Genovese, we could fill pages with examples of the concern city folks have for their neighbors!

[jazzhound]

19. Comments like this and the one that follow demonstrate such absolute

ignorance, lack of intellect and bad spirit as to COMPLETELY destroy the credibility of the speaker. Seriously ---- you two have no business saying squat on the subject of law enforcement and gun control.

And your credibility on all other issues is damn near destroyed as well.

[Mother Smuckers]

20. Well, the good people of Hudspeth County should have elected Jesus

instead of a horrible human who had the ridiculous idea that people should have the right to self defense. What kind of psychotic asshole would dare suggest such a thing???

[S_B_Jackson]

29. Correction: A logical observation....

He's a single police officer who, along with a small cadre of deputies is responsible for patroling a county in which it's 3300 people are scattered across over just 4,500 square miles. He's admitting that his department simply cannot be everywhere, and that if called, they can't guarantee to be anywhere in less than 1/2 hour.

Given that limitation, his comments are simple common sense.

And BTW, Arctic Dave? YOU aren't paying him one thin dime, are you?

[dashrif]

31. Yes

your right how about you call in Walker Texas Ranger and he will have it all wrapped up in under a hour maybe 2 if its sweeps week :eyes:

[Xenotime]

33. EXACTLY!

[SteveM]

34. Translation: Look at a map of Hudspeth County...

and its huge border with Mexico, stretching from Acala, through Esperanza all the way to the corner of Jeff Davis County and not touching an incorporated town the whole way! You expect local LEO to be worth something in the face of a full-blown drug war on the other side of the Rio Grande? You can put Elliot Ness, Omar Smedley or Wyatt Earp in charge and get the same advice: arm yourself.

Now, what is it he is supposed to do, Arctic? Please tell us, is he supposed to "protect" us from the cartels? How far is it from Salt Flat to McNary?

[Mojorabbit]

40. I totally disagree. nt

[spin]

8. The Sheriff gives good advice...

those who hate firearms would tell the ranchers to move to a safer place like Chicago.

Maybe if the farmers arm themselves, the Brady Campaign will put signs in Spanish on the border, warning that Texas citizens are armed and can use deadly force.

Brady signs where often posted on Florida's border in the past.

[proteus_lives]

14. Ha.

That's great.

[PavePusher]

30. And Texas isn't the only place.

http://www.truthistreason.net/ohio-county-judge-sheriff-tell-citizens-to-arm-themselves-during-financial-crisis

I guess, according to A.D., the judge is worthless too?

[spin]

35. Crap, thats where I grew up ...

sure glad I moved to Florida after I served a tour in the Air Force.

[Biker13]

32. K&R

nt

[struggle4progress]

36. I guess it's election year in Texas. The folks who want the border fence completed are

busy stirring up anxiety. Oh look: somebody got murdered in Arizona, so we'd best all crap our trousers in Texas! Since Gov Perry directed the Homeland Security money elsewhere, it must be time to attack the Dems as weak on border security

Hudspeth county is beautiful open desert, for those of us who like desert: those who don't like desert tried diligently for a while to put a national radioactive waste dump there. Hudspeth fought it off, and Andrews county got the dump instead. It's the kind of dry arid landscape with the brutal summers that inspired the old cowboy saying, I'll do what I want without fear of Hell, because I rode through Texas once. I'd bet you can still stuff yourself some of the best home-cooked Tex-Mex dinners in the world there for five or six bucks in one of the small roadside diners around there

But why would the drug cartels fight over Hudspeth? They can fight with impunity over Mexican territory, where they only contend with the Federales, instead of pissing off the whole US by bringing their vicious squabbles across the border. Ciudad Juárez has been a disaster for years: in the last few decades, literally hundreds of pretty young women have been murdered and dumped in the surrounding desert there -- without anybody across el Río Bravo del Norte bothering even to yawn

Making Ciudad Juárez safer might be the smartest move -- and the way to accomplish that might be to change US drug policies. The border drug mafias aren't earning their money from Mexicans: they're funded by US consumers

[struggle4progress]

37. And, sure enough, here's Arvin West in January plugging for Perry's reelection, cuz he's made

the border so safe

... “I’m Arvin West, Sheriff of Hudspeth County.”

“In the last two-and-a-half years, Governor Perry has helped secure this Texas border.”

“There is not a governor in the United States that has done the efforts that Governor Perry has done to ensure that this border is secure and the citizens of the state of Texas are secure.”

“Folks from Washington, when they come to the border, they want to take pictures. It’s a photo opportunity for them” ...

http://www.rickperry.org/blog/new-tv-ad-border

[spin]

38. If it's such a great place why don't you move there ...

buy a ranch right on the border.

Be sure to put up signs saying



Report back to us on how things go.

Note: I do agree with you on U.S. drug policies.

[struggle4progress]

39. I said scenery and food were good but noted Hudspeth was arid, which means "water is very limited"

So riverfront property -- if one could call anything on the muddy banks of the Rio Grande "riverfront" without laughing -- will be hard to come by. You can smell that trickle from a long way off, because it affects what grows. The lack of water has a major impact on the local economy: it's an impoverished place by any national standards

And, as in much of Texas, I expect rightwing wackos are in control. W carried Hudspeth twice. I've already pointed out that the sheriff in question supports Perry, filming a spot a couple months ago claiming Perry had turned Hudspeth into the perfect photo-op example of border-control-done-right, before drumming up anxiety now about drug gangs from across the border. Why? The drug mafia is nothing new. But the current Republican strategy is to attack the Dems for supposedly not providing adequate border security funds for the area -- though the truth is that Perry rerouted the Federal money made available for that

[spin]

42. Interesting. Politics is a dirty game ...

Reroute the money for border security and then bitch about it.

All too typical.