A good example of why "may issue" concealed carry in California is unfair ...

[spin]

Ex-Turlock cop denied concealed carry request despite previous attack

Matt Speckman, a former Turlock police sergeant, used to be in charge of processing concealed gun permits. Now retired, he'd like one himself.

"I'm not a gun nut," Speckman said. "But I've been involved in investigations of people now getting paroled who have probably been throwing darts at my picture in their cells."

Speckman, 49, attended the FBI academy, trained at a nationally recognized firearms course, earned an MBA, is studying for a Ph.D, toted a gun for 30 years and screened gun permit applicants for seven years.

Yet Turlock Police Chief Gary Hampton and Sheriff Adam Christianson, both of whom have approved gun permits for politicians and prominent businessmen, turned him down.

Speckman since has moved from Turlock and says he doesn't obsess about his safety. But reports about people who find favor with law enforcement executives despite relative lack of experience, he says, point up the arbitrary nature of concealed gun permits in California, where many agencies endure charges of political favoritism.

***snip***

Neither Christianson nor Hampton could be reached Friday, the same day a Bee article noted that Hampton takes political office into account when issuing permits. Two of seven he's approved are held by Turlock City Council members.

***snip***

Speckman said he knew nothing about Hampton's unique request in 2008 to the sheriff asking him not to issue permits to Turlock residents without first sending them to Turlock police, until reading about it in recent Bee stories. Hampton's request came about the time Speckman retired; Christianson this week indicated he respects the request but retains authority to ignore it.

Read more: http://www.modbee.com/2010/04/09/1122196/ex-turlock-cop-denied-concealed.html#ixzz0kicH10Nt

Guns in Turlock generally go to politicians, people with police ties



TURLOCK -- People in Turlock who want concealed weapon permits might consider running for office.

Of the seven permits issued by Turlock police, two belong to City Council members. And while Councilmen Ted Howze and Kurt Spycher don't feel they got preferential treatment, Police Chief Gary Hampton confirmed that they did.

"I do take into consideration people who hold political office," Hampton said Wednesday, adding that he licensed unnamed politicians when he was chief in Oakdale before going to Turlock in the summer of 2006. His reasoning includes "realizing there is a great potential for an act of violence committed against people who hold office," he said.


Hampton clarified his unique arrangement with the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department, which has authority to issue concealed gun permits to any resident throughout the county. About two years ago, Hampton asked Sheriff Adam Christianson not to approve permits requested by Turlock residents without first sending them to Hampton's office, he said.

***snip***

That nearly 30 percent of police- issued permits belong to politicians is not "arbitrary or capricious," he said, citing a court-approved test of that standard.

Read more: http://www.modbee.com/2010/04/08/1120691/guns-in-turlock-generally-go-to.html#ixzz0kidu8LLv

Perhaps that's the reason people open carry unloaded handguns in California.

[Gman2]

1. Police informed me of a spec ops viet, that had a job shootout fantasy.

Me being the main target. I could not get a Concealed. Nor would they even tell me which weapons violations he had. I risked felony conviction for months. To protect myself.

[slackmaster]

2. I managed a campaign for a city office in San Diego, and was told I could probably get a permit

If I really wanted one. I didn't bother.

Maybe next time.

[spin]

3. The Brady Campaign probably loves Turlock ...

They give California top ratings on their scorecard.

California Scorecard
79 out of 100 points

Once again, California holds the top spot with the nation’s strongest gun laws that help combat the illegal gun market, prevent the sale of guns without background checks and reduce risks to children, according to the Brady Campaign. In the organization’s 2009 state scorecards released for all 50 states, California earned 79 points out of a total of 100.

In 2009, California further strengthened its laws by passing legislation to regulate the sale of handgun ammunition in the state. Governor Schwarzenegger signed AB 962, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin DeLeon (D-Los Angeles). It was the top priority of the California Brady Campaign Chapters and Women Against Gun Violence.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/CA/

On on the subject of "may issue" as opposed to "shall issue", they have this to say...

THREAT: Allowing untrained, under-trained, and/or emotionally unstable or impulsive persons to carry loaded hidden handguns in public puts people at risk of being killed or injured, intentionally and unintentionally. It also makes it harder for law enforcement to identify the real perpetrators during a shooting. Allowing more people to carry concealed handguns in densely populated cities, on crowded subways, on buses and in sports stadiums, is a recipe for disaster.

URGENCY: There is no federal law on prohibiting carrying concealed handguns outside of federal property. Thirty-five states have “shall-issue” laws forcing police to issue concealed handgun permits. Eleven states have “may-issue” laws that give local law enforcement officials discretion over who gets a concealed handgun permit and how many are allowed in each jurisdiction. Two states, Wisconsin and Illinois, do not require a permit to carry concealed handguns in public while two states forbid the carrying of concealed handguns.

SOLUTION: “May issue” states and states that do not allow the carrying of concealed guns should work with law enforcement to retain current laws. Those in states with “shall issue” laws should work with their law enforcement officials to determine the best course of action in amending their laws. At the very minimum, law enforcement should have some discretion in permitting, and citizens applying for concealed handgun permits should be required to go through testing to ensure they know how to safely handle firearms and to show they know the gun laws in their state. emphasis added
http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/publicplaces/carrying

The form of "discretion" used by the authorities in Turlock would gain their approval as it definitely stops "those people" from obtaining carry permits (and just about everybody else as well).

[cowman]

4. I'm damn

proud that the Brady Bunch gave Nevada one of the lowest ratings, just means we are doing something right

[spin]

5. You guys did great, but Florida still did better ..

but we both have a way to go. Nevada got 9 pints and Florida got 6 points.

Utah scored 0 points!!!

For those who are interested in how their state did visit:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/descriptions/?s=1

[cowman]

6. I guess

we just have to keep on keeping on. I remember about a year ago we had a bunch of Kalifonians move to my little town and tried to propose gun control laws like KA had, needless to say it didn't happen, not even the
Sheriff supported it who is a firm believer in RKBA. Matter of fact at the town board meeting most of us wore our guns which really pissed them off and they tried to have us removed but the Sheriff told them we were breaking no laws and he refused to take any action. Well shortly after, most left town because, as they put it in an editorial, the citizens are just not enlightened enough for "sensible gun laws". Taken straight from the Brady playbook

[spin]

7. People who support Brady approved gun control ...

often think they are far more intelligent than those who support RKBA.

My experience has led to my opinion that there are very intelligent people on both sides of the issue, but RKBA supporters have facts on their side, while the gun control advocates have emotion.

[jazzhound]

8. Yes, and additionally some very smart people seem to lose all of their

smarts when it comes to the RKBA issue. Making irrational arguments they wouldn't make on other subjects, making generally nasty remarks they typically wouldn't make. And speaking with a tone of authority which they'd never adopt w/regard to any other subject they know they haven't researched --- humility goes right out the window.

I've often wondered if it's simply a dynamic which kicks in during *any* emotional debate, or if it relates to the bizarre "evil" that they attach to the inanimate object. Most likely a combination of both.

[spin]

9. Some may also have had a tragic event occur in their lives ...

if you lose a close friend or relative, it would be hard to see past that event and to be rational about firearm ownership.

In my life, firearms may well have saved the lives of my mother and daughter. Obviously, I favor RKBA. Still I would like to see our laws improved to help eliminate those who should not be allowed to legally purchase firearms and existing laws enforced to punish those who traffic in the illegal sales of firearms.

Also, I would like to see more effort expended to fight the criminal gangs who commit so much needless violence in wars over turf. Many of the deaths caused by firearms involve gangs. Prohibiting honest citizens from firearm ownership would do nothing to reduce gang wars.

We do need to realize that we have lost the "War on Drugs" and our continued efforts over the years have only led to better organized and far more deadly drug gangs that are destroying Mexico and threatening our own society. At the minimum we need to legalize marijuana. Prohibition never works.

[PavePusher]

10. I'm not really in agreement with that.

"Some may also have had a tragic event occur in their lives ...
if you lose a close friend or relative, it would be hard to see past that event and to be rational about firearm ownership."


When people are killed with cars (deliberetely or accidentally), no-one publishes political rants about banning all cars, or even just sub-sets of cars. The friends and relatives in fact, probably are driving later the very same day.

But they sure do get all emotional about banning firearms.

[tburnsten]

11. Speaking of cars

I lost my father to a car accident in 1998, a dear cousin (not so much anymore, I miss the old him but heron has some major permanent impacts on users) ran himself into a tree and spent over two months in a coma, and an acquaintance of mine who happens to be my best friend's now deceased best friend was lost when a dumb bastard drove them into a tree.

However i am a near-compulsive speeder. I can't help it. I guess I figure I should take the bull by the horns and wrestle it to the ground.

I don't know if that is unusual or not, but I think those are some fairly high-impact situations, which have made me want to be more competent than the average person on the road.

I made my grandmother black out once from my wired reflexes when somebody who had a stop light decided when I was ten yards away to go for it. I am fast on the brakes apparently. Saved my new car from getting all smashed up and probably saved the other driver from some serious injuries. Her door would have been what my engine punched through.

So I don't think it is the majority of people who get so traumatized their life changes for the worse from some scary encounter.

[spin]

12. I remember one lady whose brother committed suicide ...

she told me about cleaning his brains off the bedroom wall.

She was very opposed to firearms.

[jazzhound]

13. I have a friend who has a friend who recently attempted suicide..........

...........though due to the circumstances, it looks to me more like a cry for help. Her friend survived a 9mm round to the center of her chest after sending out a number of "good bye" e-mails. Her bro-in-law found her with the gunshot wound and rushed her to the hospital and she survived.

My friend related the story to me and said that she "doesn't like guns". Under the circumstances I opted not to get into a discussion of the subject with her, but it seems to me (as has just been pointed out) that when you are personally touched by an incident like this
it's hard to keep a balanced view. If, on the other hand, her friend defended herself against an attack with her pistol she'd likely see things differently.

[old mark]

14. Back in the '70's I was denied a license to carry by the Allentown, PA

police because I had long hair. (I was a little over a year out if the Army, had a job, a car and a place to live, as well as several handguns.) I was NOT a criminal, just a working guy with long hair.

SHALL ISSUE is the only way that makes sense and the only way that gives people their rights. May issue should be found unconstitutional.
The Law Enforcement people have no business making that decision because too often it is based on personal prejudice.

mark