Packing heat: More women training to carry guns ...

[spin]

By Nicole Boone | WBTW News13 Anchor
Published: April 29, 2010
Updated: April 30, 2010

According to a number of different studies, it is estimated that there are at least 15 million female gun owners in the U.S. Recent research also shows more and more of those gun owners are women which includes South Carolina. In South Carolina, the growth rate of gun ownership among women gets higher every year as does the number of women getting a Concealed Weapons Permit.

Many local law enforcement agencies sponsor gun safety training courses specifically geared toward women. That includes the Florence County Sheriff’s Office. Lt. Jeff Johnson heads up the firearms training for Florence County. He says the desire for women to protect themselves is prompting more women to arm themselves. “You need to know the basic principles of the weapon, how it works, how the safety operates on it, how to load it, unload it. A little bit of cleaning in reference to the maintenance of the weapon.“

Audrey Johnson of Effingham is a prime example of a woman who decided to get a gun for protection. She decided to go through training to get her Concealed Weapons Permit after an attempted carjacking. It happened nearly a year ago as Mrs. Johnson was driving home, like she normally did.

“I was driving down the road, actually going home about a mile before I got to the red light, I noticed there was a this car that just kept pulling up beside me and the guys in it were hollering, and screaming and carrying on, so I rolled up the windows on the truck and just kept going acting, ignoring them, not paying them any attention. And we got to the red light, stopped and next think I know they had jumped out of their vehicle and was trying to get the doors on the truck open. Of course the kids in the back of the truck were screaming and hollering and carrying on. I sat there for a few minutes. They started beating on the windows and beating on the windows, I looked both ways and nothing was coming so I ran the red light, I think I actually run over the poor dude’s foot.“

According to Lt. Johnson, it’s important for women to be comfortable using a gun, confident enough to use it, and to train on their weapon of choice. He suggests a 38 hammerless revolver for women and here’s why. “They can access it without the actual hammer getting caught on anything.“

***snip***

As for Mrs. Johnson, if a crisis situation occurs again she says she’s ready. “I don’t think guns in the answer to everything, but I think it it’s a life-death situation, you’ve took the class and you’ve got the knowledge to use it and I think you’d have a better chance of protecting yourself and men are a lot stronger than women and I think advantage wise that’s the only advantage a woman has.“

***snip***

The Florence County Sheriff’s Office Training Division conducts Women’s Firearms Training, Couples Firearms Training, and the Concealed Weapons Course.

The Women’s Firearms training is free of charge. It includes weapons safety, familiarization and firing of the handgun.

The Couples Firearms Training is also free of charge. It also includes weapons safety, familiarization and firing of the handgun.

The Concealed Weapons Course cost $65.00 per person. Sled charges $50.00 to issue the permit. If you plan to attend this course you must bring your weapon with 50 rounds of ammunition.
http://www2.scnow.com/scp/news/local/pee_dee/article/packing_heat_women_and_guns/137260/

[michreject]

1. My wife is confused

She has her CCW and carries but still has to Pee sitting down. No penis effect for her.

[jazzhound]

3. Thanks for making my morning!

:rofl:

[shadowrider]

4. No penis envy here. Mine is a sub-compact, the gun too..:(

[shadowrider]

2. My daughter carries

[proteus_lives]

23. So do my mom and sisters.

Smart women.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Lessons in self defense used to do the trick.

[Pavulon]

6. A 5'5 120 lb female requires lots of training to stand ground

with a 6'1 220 lb man. Now add drugs or alcohol.

Pepper spray is the minimum level of force required for this situation. Lethal force would be preferable for a person who is not doing police work.

[spin]

8. In such a situation, martial arts training ...

enables a small female to use techniques to get away and escape an attacker. The object is not to fight to win but to fight to survive.

[Pavulon]

11. Also agree. The idea is to never engage, situational awareness

is a under taught concept.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. +1. N/T

[RamboLiberal]

21. Good martial arts instructors & good gun instructors

teach the concepts of situational awarness.

I always liked the idea of the color code system.

Code White, Yellow, Orange, Red.

But even being in a condition of yellow in your daily life still cannot guarantee that you'll never be in a SHTF encounter.

[paulsby]

19. as a martial artist myself, competitive strength athlete, and one who has a seen and investigated

a fair %age of these cases

1) it takes a fair bit of training to get psychologically confident and physically capable enough to stand much of a chance
2) martial arts gives a woman some tools. they are hardly foolproof. and if the person SHE is going up against has some good training ( i have jiu jitsu , tae kwan do, aikido training etc.) unless she has VASTLY superior technique, the stronger person (almost always the man) will win
3) why should a woman have to go through all that crap to protect herself fromn predatory scum? she doesn't have to "fight fair". if she is attacked, she can use... a gun

[RamboLiberal]

20. Bullcrap - I'm female and I trained for 27 years in MA

And am under no illusion that is all I need to keep myself safe. I've read of women trained in the MA who have been raped and/or murdered. Men are physically stronger, may have a weapon, and usually can even run faster.

And even if you momentarily escape if you have nowhere to escape to and summon help you can well be caught again and overcome.

A handgun gives a women a better chance IMHO.

I think women should train in self-defense if at all possible but realize it is no magic elixir.

I'd advise all women if they think they have the mindset & it is legal to do so to think about carrying a firearm or at least have one in their house. And of course if they have children to take the proper precautions to secure it.

[spin]

7. My daughter had ten years of training in judo and Jiu Jitsu ...

and she carries.

Shooting is also a martial art.

Hojutsu Ryu

Hojutsu Ryu or "The Art of Gunnery” is the martial art dedicated to firearms usage. It is the modern rendition of hōjutsu and is based on the Modern Technique of the pistol that was developed by Col. Jeff Cooper <1>

The founder of modern Hojutsu is Soke Jeffrey Hall who was inducted into the United States Martial Arts Hall of Fame in June 2005 as the founder and head of Modern Hojutsu Ryu.<2> The US Martial Arts Hall of Fame determined after long evaluation and interviews with Soke Hall that Hojutsu Ryu was in fact a martial art and have recognized it as such.

Hojutsu Ryu fuses the teaching of the modern technique of firearms with the tradition and structure of martial arts. Students of the art must pass written exams on the history of the art, write essays on related topics, show a high degree of skill in firearms “kata” as well as demonstrate different degrees of proficiency in shooting for the different ranks earned.<3>

Unlike traditional martial arts, skill is easily quantifiable and is not subjective. Students must be able to make hits on their targets within very specifically defined time limits and distances. As the student progresses to higher ranks, time limits decrease, making tests much more difficult. At the highest level testing is so difficult that it can not be passed with out attaining a level of mental skill known as “Mushin” or no-mind. Movements must be reflexive and instinctive or the tests can not be passed.

Hojutsu Ryu is also an integrated fighting system that incorporates empty hand self-defense, impact weapons as well as edged weapons. It is the philosophy of the founder that the Hojutsu Ryu practitioner must be an effective fighting force from grappling distance out to 300 meters.

Hojutsu Ryu now has several instructors teaching in Alaska, Colorado, California, Washington State, Idaho, and Nevada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hojutsu_Ryu

[Pavulon]

9. Agree. Owning a gun no makes a person capable of using it

than owning a guitar makes me jimi hendrix. Generally good firearms training can take 2 weeks (blackwater, gunsite) and monthly practice. Even a person with physical disability can operate a sidearm to defend themselves.

The best courses teach situational awareness and moving an d thinking while shooting. Not blasting away at a paper target on a range.

[RamboLiberal]

22. I highly recommend a good shooting school

But also a way of getting comfortable with moving & shooting is to do some competition shooting like IDPA or USPSA. The former stresses self-defense scenarios and shooting with a carry gun & holster from concealment. Most areas of the country probably have a match or two close by. You can find clubs in your area at either organizations websites.

It's not training per se but for the price of a couple boxes of target ammo and a match fee usually in the 10-20 dollar range you get try out your handgun and test your skills at not just plink standing in one position at the range.

[GreenStormCloud]

10. No, such lessons didn't do the trick. They gave a false sense of confidence.

It is a favorite Hollywood fantasy that a woman with martial arts training can defeat a man. I remember one silly movie in which a policewoman with karate got into a fight with four mafia enforcers and beat them up. Mafia enforcers, who beat people up for a living, in a four on one fight against a smaller woman and they lose? Give me a break. In real life, even male black belts get their clocks cleaned by experienced street fighters.

A gun is much easier to learn than any of the unarmed martial arts, and works a lot better.

[slackmaster]

33. Firearm training IS self-defense training

HTH

[HippieCowgirl]

13. The woman in this story didn't need a gun

She did exactly the right thing - the minute the guys were out of the truck and banging on her windows, hit the gas and drive away - preferably directly to police or fire station, or at least a populated area. If she'd gotten out of the truck and tried to shoot the group of men around her car, she would have been quickly overwhelmed and the situation would have gone from an anecdote to a headline news story.

One of the things a great firearms instructor will teach you is when NOT to use a gun. The best weapon you have is your brain.

[spin]

14. I agree with your evaluation of the situation ...

However, the encounter taught her a valuable lesson.

If she finds herself in a different situation where escape from attack is impossible, she has a firearm for self defense.

I remember an incident that happened to a co-worker of mine. He was on his way to work on the late shift. For some reason he irritated another driver. They pulled up to an intersection and my co-worker had cars in front and beside him. The angry individual got out of his car and approached my co-workers car with a tire iron.

My friend told me that if could have just drove away, he would have - even if it meant running a red light. Unfortunately he was boxed in.

But he had a concealed carry license so he drew his weapon and laid his arm on the steering wheel. When the road raged individual noticed the 9mm pistol, he stopped his attack and returned to his car. The situation ended peacefully with no shots fired.

[Pavulon]

15. Yep. Had she been outside her car

the gun would have been nice to have. It is not bad to have in any situation, especially if not needed. Your assumption about being overwhelmed assumes the other people continued an attack after the closest threat was shot. Gunfire trends to discourage people.

Most video you see where a person is shot in a robbery attempt his help scatters like roaches. If they dont, well thats why carrying spare mags is a great idea.

Glock 22, 15+1 rounds of 40 and a 17 round spare. If you have shot through that you have bigger problems.

[GreenStormCloud]

27. She would not have been overwhelmed.

First, let me agree that she did the right thing by driving off. Escape is almost always better than confrontation.

However, if she had been unable to escape, merely showing the gun would likely have ended the problem. These guys were bullies who were having their sick idea of fun. They were wanting a helpless victim to terrorize. Learning that the intended victim could suddenly end their lives would have put things in an entirely new light for them. They would have ran like Hell.

I once knew a woman who had been the subject of an attempted car-jacking. She was in a parking lot late at night and had just gotten into her car when another car pulled in sideways behind her, blocking her in. Her doors were always locked so he wasn't able to yank the door open. He brought up a brick that he had with him to smash the window in. She brought up her gun. He went pale and dropped the brick as he ran for the open door of his buddy's car. His buddy wasn't waiting for him but had already started to drive off. He grabbed the open door and was scrambling to climb into the door of an accelerating car. She then drove to the police station and reported the incident.

[Euromutt]

30. True; good instructors will tell "don't draw if you can drive"

Big names like Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith will tell you that hitting the gas and getting out of the area is much preferable to trying to shoot it out. And if anyone tries to block you, as a comment attributed to Ayoob puts it, "a Honda Civic has more stopping power than a .45."

That said, however...

If she'd gotten out of the truck and tried to shoot the group of men around her car, she would have been quickly overwhelmed and the situation would have gone from an anecdote to a headline news story.

Maybe. In a group of aggressors who do so purely for the purpose of self-gratification, few if any of the members will be prepared to be the ones who get shot so that the others can achieve the objective. Displaying a weapon and a convincing preparedness to use it might well have caused the aggressors to back off. Still, driving away was definitely the better option all round.

[jazzhound]

16. When my sister was young and living in Tahoe she was sexually assaulted

while in the community laundry room of her condo complex. Luckily (in this instance) her tendency to freeze in tense situations served her. When the perp ordered her to take off her clothes, she couldn't --- and since rape isn't about sex he ended up leaving a protein deposit on her clothes and then split. My sister is the last person who should own a firearm for the aforementioned reason, but to this day the memory of her recounting the story saddens and infuriates me. (I'm typing this with tears rolling down my face)

There will always be a very special place in my heart for women firearm owners..........women who haven't fallen for the filthy misogynistic lie that they don't have what it takes to become proficient or expert in firearms use.

[Euromutt]

24. Speaking of "the misogynistic lie that women don't have what it takes"...

"to become proficient or expert in firearms use,"

<Lt. Johnson> suggests a .38 hammerless revolver for women <...>

Argh. I'm instantly reminded of this passage:

Somewhere in America today, a woman is going to operate a doorknob, lock a deadbolt, operate an alarm remote, and operate a door handle. She will then operate an ignition switch and a seatbelt latch, manipulate clutch and gas and brake pedals while simultaneously rowing a gear selector and working a turn indicator switch. Arriving at her destination, she will manipulate all these controls again in reverse order, walk into the gun store, and be told by some bright spark with a barely-room-temperature IQ: "These automatic pistols have too many complicated controls on 'em, honey; whatchoo need's a revolver." (http://www.booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/)

I have yet to meet a woman--including my (at the time) 13 year-old niece--who couldn't understand how to operate a semi-automatic, including a DA/SA 9mm, which is about as complex as handguns get. One of my range buddies is a fairly lightweight lesbian who carries a Glock 27 and whose handgun collection contains (among other things) a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Mag, which she shoots very well. (Mind you, she is from rural Wyoming.) Another female friend of mine used to be a dead-eye shot with a 1911, in .45 ACP (and for all I know, she still is).

[spin]

35. A .38 hammerless revolver is the KISS principle personified...

Just pull the trigger and it makes a LOUD noise. No safety to worry about disengaging in an emergency. The action is enclosed and not prone to failure from pocket or purse debris. It can be fired through a purse or a jacket pocket without fear of jamming.

A weapon such as a S&W Model 642 makes the ultimate pocket or purse revolver. It's very light and very powerful with loaded with good .38+P ammo.

It does have some drawbacks. The double action only trigger pull is hard. It's difficult to shoot at longer range because of the sights and the short sight radius (Which is why some refer to it as a "belly gun"). It has a sharp recoil which intimidates many and makes the weapon a pain to practice with using full power ammo.

I carry one more frequently than any other firearm because of the light weight and the fact that all I have to do is slip the pocket holster and firearm into my front pants pocket and I'm ready to go. I occasionally carry a model S&W Model 60 .357 magnum with a 3" barrel in an inside the pants holster. The Model 60 has a hammer and is much heavier, but to me has less felt recoil with .357 magnum rounds than the Model 642 with 38+P. The sights are better and it's very easy to shoot accurately at longer ranges. You can cock the hammer and shoot single action if you want (which is how many people shoot revolvers).

The Model 642 rests in my front pants pocket and if things look suspicious, I can innocently place my hand in my pocket on the firearm. It's a lot faster to draw than a firearm in an inside the pants holster.


S&W Model 642


S&W Model 60 3" revolver

[Euromutt]

41. Those are valid points, but what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

If you (general "you") give the same advice to men looking to buy their first handgun, fine.

[spin]

42. Yes, that is my advice despite gender ...

At the range I was known as a "wheel gunner". While I own semi-auto pistols, a Ruger .22 cal target pistol, a Model 41 S&W target pistol and several Colt .45 autos, I prefer a revolver for self defense.

I like the simplicity and the fact that a revolver is far less sensitive to different ammo then a semi-auto. I usually practice double action shooting rather than cocking the hammer, so I can fire a revolver almost as fast as a semi-auto.

If I hear a noise in the night I grab a revolver knowing that if I pull the trigger it will make a loud noise. I don't have to fumble with a safety or chamber a round. I also know that if Murphy's Law bites and a round doesn't fire, I can just pull the trigger and new round rotates into position. I don't have to worry about "limp wristing" a revolver.

I know that someone with experience and big balls can grab the slide of a semi-auto and push the weapon out of battery and possibly cause a stovepipe jam. I also once owned a Beretta Centurion .40 cal that a person with practice could grab the slide and remove it from the frame.

The biggest drawback of a revolver is that you don't have the large capacity of a semi auto pistol. However most police gun fights involved only an average of 3 rounds fired when revolvers were widely in use. The average number of shots fired has increased since semi-autos became common. Currently it's around 7 rounds per incident.

If I carried a weapon as part of my job in law enforcement, I would chose a semi-auto. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, I feel confident with a snub nosed revolver and two speed loaders.

[RamboLiberal]

37. While I get mad at the male gun store clerks

Who have a prejudice that a woman should get a revolver or small caliber cause she can't handle the semi-auto or larger caliber. When I was buying my latest a 4th Gen Glock 17 the clerk said to me, "I like your grip - you don't grip like a girl." Grrrr. Should have mentioned I've corrected the grip of a couple of guys who came to the range with the TV's cup and saucer grip.

But something that was talked about on one of the gun shows got me thinking that one good reason to stick with revolver if you're going to carry in a purse or a jacket pocket is that you can shoot the revolver more than once from either the inside of a pocket or jacket. If you shoot from inside a purse or a pocket that with a semi-auto the slide action will likely jam the gun. Being able to do that is very good option in some SD situations. Think about being able to have your hand on the butt of that gun while in a parking garage or on a darkenend scary street.

I would think that any police agency with female officers know women are perfectly capable of shooting semi-autos. And I personally think since the days I started out with Sig 228 and now have everything from a Ruger LCP, an airweight revolver, a Glock 26(my primary carry) and shoot a S&W M&P and a Glock 17 in competiton that the semi-auto is the easiest to shoot & have accuracy. Most modern semi-autos have slides women can rack. And it's really good that they have come out with grip options that can be sized to various hand sizes.

So I'd advise any woman thinking of getting a gun is try them out and pick what you like and consider how you are going to carry it. And if you really get in to it and can afford it think about more than one for different styles of carry.

[jazzhound]

38. Thanks for the good chuckle, RL!

[spin]

43. Excellent advise. (n/t)

[jazzhound]

17. Which shall it be?

[jazzhound]

18. Portion of gun control theory explained

[GreenStormCloud]

25. The average woman can become a better shot than the average man.

Women have better fine muscle coordination than men do. That is a simple biological fact. That ability, applied to shooting creates an excellent shooter.

[shadowrider]

26. I'll second that

My daughter went to the range with her husband (who was shooting a .44 mag desert eagle) and by the end of the session was outshooting him with it at 15 feet.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Women are also more likely to choose a cartridge that is better balanced for them.

Men have this macho thing where we want the biggest baddest cartridge available. A woman will pay attention to balance. My wife is only 4' 10", is a senior citizen with mild arthritis and she prefers a .380. Of our guns her favorite is the Taurus PT 58 S. The gun is heavy enough that it moderates the recoil to very little. She does quite well with our Bersa Thunder, again in .380.

[shadowrider]

29. My daughter carries a .380

She wanted something small she could put in her purse (In a holster, of course). She's quite adept with it.

[Euromutt]

31. I'll third it

I've taken a variety of women shooting, including my wife, my (then) 13 year-old niece, and a friend from Germany. I started them off on a .22 (my Ruger 22/45 Mk.III), then moved them up to 9mm, and they were putting nice tight groups in the paper by the end of the session. (Though actually my niece really excels with a bolt-action rifle.)

The funny thing is that they all shot better groups than I ever have. I think there are two factors at work: first, I'm a pretty decent instructor, in that I can convey the theory to another person effectively. But I have to give my students due credit, in that they put the theory I taught them into practice better than I've managed to do so myself.

[shadowrider]

32. Another reason is they go into it with no preconceived ideas

on how to shoot. They start from scratch where most guys go in convinced they know what they're doing (stance, etc.). They (guys) must unlearn what they think they know and learn from step 1.

[oneshooter]

34. My Loving Wife carries a Colt Commander 45.

She practices 200-300 rounds a month( Glad I reload!) and shoots IPSC every other month. We both have Texas CHL's.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[spin]

36. In Florida 18% of the Concealed Weapons Permits belong to women ...

source: Concealed Weapon / Firearm License Holder Profile
As of March 31, 2010

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_holders.html

[jody]

39. IMO every time a judge issues a restraining order to protect a woman, the judge should issue a

handgun to her and order the woman to take a handgun course offered free by a local LEO agency.

Then deputize the woman as an agent of the court and order her to use lethal force to defend herself against the man listed in the restraining order.

[spin]

40. It might be a good idea for a woman to get a firearm ...

practice with it and get a concealed carry license just to be on the safe side.

Then if she does have a reason to issue a restraining order, she is armed.

My daughter had a restraining order against a stalker for a year. He violated it on numerous occasions, but he was also aware that she had a carry permit and carried. He never attempted to violently attack her. If he had, she would have shot him without hesitation.

Eventually, he violated the restraining order one time to often. I was a witness. He was arrested and at trial, the judge sentenced him to several weekends in jail.

He appears to have learned his lesson. He has now moved on to stalk one of my daughter's friends who is not armed. He seems to be a person who loves to terrorize women.

It's hard to say what would have happened if my daughter didn't have a concealed carry permit, but the fact that she did, helped her handle his harassment. She just considered him a major pain in the ass.