Why do you need a gun in a safe neighborhood?

[mvccd1000]

Noticed this story in the paper today and thought it was a bit atypical of most criminal assaults. Rather than either a domestic situation or (apparently) drug situation, this guy was out for a walk with his family. It doesn't sound like he was looking for trouble, but trouble found him.

The bad news is that the criminal got away. I hope he doesn't decide to try this trick again with more successful results next time.

Would this have happened if the man had been openly carrying a pistol?

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/central/story/PD-Man-stabbed-walking-down-Phoenix-street-with/gK9guEs2kESLvcg4vobwxw.cspx

"PHOENIX -- Police are on the hunt for a suspect after a man was stabbed while walking with his family in Phoenix, according to officials.

Phoenix Police Department spokeswoman Paula Veach said the victim was walking down Thomas Road near 32nd Street with his family when they were approached by the suspect around 9 p.m.

The male suspect reportedly stabbed the man four times in the neck, shoulder and abdomen.

Veach said the victim was transported to an area hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

The suspect fled on foot into the area of 34th Street and Virginia and remains at large, according to officials.

Police said the two men did not know each other and no words were exchanged during the attack."


(Side note: why do they use the term "suspect" when describing the assailant? SOMEBODY stabbed the guy; there's no suspicion about that. Once they make an arrest, they can say "so and so is suspected of this crime," but right now it's a fact, not a suspicion - the man was stabbed.)

[shadowrider]

1. You never, never, ever know when the threat to your life will come

I carry for that reason.

[Glassunion]

2. Ditto. (nt)

[The Magistrate]

19. Helluva Way To Live, Sir....

"No one here gets out alive."

[shadowrider]

20. Prepared. Nothing more, nothing less

[The Magistrate]

21. Prepared For What, Sir?

What threat do you actually experience in your daily life?

[shadowrider]

22. You're funny

In the 20+ years I've carried, I've NOT had to use it, nor have I been tempted to use it. All it takes, however, is one time for someone to be a threat to my life, the lives of my loved ones, or perhaps, a stranger, maybe you, for me to pull it and defend my/their/your life.

[The Magistrate]

23. So Indeed, Sir, You Encounter No Particular Pressing Danger In Your Daily Life

Yet you are ready and alert to spring into armed action the moment any appears....

Good luck with that....

[shadowrider]

24. Look, SIR, I've had enough of your condescending attitude

I live the way I want to live, you find fault with that. Not my problem. I'll continue to carry and I'll continue to be prepared just in case.

Please do not respond to any of my posts in the future SIR.

[The Magistrate]

25. You Mean, Sir, My Manifest Lack Of Awe At The Way You Confront Danger Every Day, Pistol On Hip?

The experience of real danger, Sir, for prolonged periods, is a very wearing thing.

Pretending to be in danger, though, is great fun....

[mvccd1000]

27. Answer:

You asked, "What threat do you actually experience in your daily life?"
Answer: Probably the same threat this guy encountered in his daily life with his family. None.

Until he did.


Bet the victim in the article wishes he'd been a little better prepared.

[The Magistrate]

28. As A Matter Of Curiousity, Sir

How much time in the course of an ordinary day do you spend imagining yourself attacked by some stranger, and vividly picturing and rehearsing in your mind your decisive and succesful reponse to his attack?

[mvccd1000]

29. Zero, on most days.

About the same amount of time I spend planning to use my fire extinguisher, first aid kit, or homeowner's insurance (which is to say, I generally think about those things when I buy them or place them, or when I remember to check on them, and don't think about them a bit the rest of the time).

Fortunately, I've never had to use a gun or my insurance. The fire extinguisher and first aid kits have certainly proven their worth, but to be frank... I would be happier if the situation that required the use of my first aid kit had never happened.

I'll bet most people who use a gun defensively are of the same mindset. Glad they had it, but wish they'd never had to use it.

I agree that there are "cowboys" out there who hope they get a chance to use their gun. I don't understand them, though, and I don't think I know any of them.

[mvccd1000]

30. And now, to be fair...

... would you answer the same question regarding your smoke alarms?

How much time in the course of an ordinary day do you spend imagining yourself awakening in a dark, smoke-filled house to the blaring sound of your smoke detector, and vividly picturing and rehearsing in your mind your decisive and successful escape from the structure (or rescue of your family and subsequent escape from the structure)?

Probably not a lot. Hopefully you keep the batteries charged, and have at least thought of (and discussed with family) the ways out of the house if the smoke detector alerts you, but that's probably the extent of it. It doesn't occupy a lot of your conscious thought.

As difficult as the mindset may be for you to understand, I believe that is the mindset of most people I know who carry firearms. Some open carry, simply for deterrent value or to make a political statement, and some concealed carry, just so they have that tool available should the need arise.

With any luck in life (and a little attention to the environments they put themselves in), they'll never need to use one. If they do, though, they'll probably be just as relieved to have had it as you would be to have changed the dead batteries in your smoke detector before your Christmas tree caught fire.

[mvccd1000]

31. No response?

I answered your questions and posted one in return. I would be interested in your response, if you can spare the time to post one.

[marcus5aurelius]

33. Reponse

He can't because he has no answer. You're right and he's wrong. Maybe he's just going to another forum and reciting the same bullsh*t in hopes that the person on the other end of the argument will not truly understand the situation and let him win the argument (although I doubt he'll ever find a person that idiotic, but it probably won't stop him from trying)

[gorfle]

37. How often do you think about your car insurance?

How much time in the course of an ordinary day do you spend imagining yourself attacked by some stranger, and vividly picturing and rehearsing in your mind your decisive and succesful reponse to his attack?

How often do you think about having a car accident? How often do you think about needing life insurance? How often do you think about floods? How often do you think about a house fire? How often do you think about having a flat tire? How often do you think about coming upon a car accident with injured people?

There are many rare eventualities that happen to people in this modern world. We have flat tires. We have house fires. We die suddenly and prematurely.

But because of the benefits of living in a modern society, the tools to deal with these rare incidents are readily available to nearly everyone at minimal expense. And so, even though the eventualities for their use are rare, because the cost of preparedness is so cheap compared to the cost of not being prepared, we take advantage of the tools that allow us to be prepared.

I have fire extinguishers in my home, and smoke detectors in every bedroom and the living room of my house. I carry a spare tire. I have a first aid kit in my cars. I have a variety of insurance polices covering my cars, my life, my family's lives, my home, and more.

Just because I have these things doesn't mean I spend a lot of time thinking about actually needing them, though I am reminded, quite frequently via the news, of what a good idea it is to be prepared.

The same applies to firearms.

[old mark]

32. Are you advocating just surrendering to these trash and leaving

the fate of your family to the sense of mercy of criminal idiots?

mark

[aikoaiko]

38. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Like wearing a seat belt.

Do you wear a seat belt?

[elocs]

3. Why do you need a gun in your safe (you think) bathroom?

You never, never, ever know when the threat to your life will come.

Yes, you could be sitting on the throne or washing the soap from your eyes when a thug breaks in.

BE PREPARED!

[GreenStormCloud]

6. My house is hardened enough that the bad guy will have to make enough noise to alert me.

I will have time to do the paperwork, pull up my britches, get the nearest gun, and greet the intruder.

Since my wife is usually at home when I need to tend to that business, (I am very regular.) she will likely take of the bad guy for me. She has used her gun before to save her life, and has a CHL so she will be supremely confident in confronting an idiot burglar.

Although, for the would-be burglar, the sight of a gun pointed directly at him may make him need to do the same paperwork that I will already be doing.

[jeepnstein]

8. No job is completed...

until the paperwork is done.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

12. Well, I usually clean my gun in the bathroom.

:hide:

[shadowrider]

13. I think they're referring to the other gun

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

15. Oh... OOOooohhh.

And here I was confused all this time about "accidental discharges" people have when handling/cleaning thier gun. I was quite sure all the dischrges from my gun have been on purpose.

[Euromutt]

14. Rather an inappropriate picture to illustrate your point

Cato didn't have to break into the house, as--being the domestic--he was already inside the house.

[CreatureFeature]

4. Simple....

Some bad guys know how to drive cars and get around.

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. I was wondering the same thing.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. There was a thread a few weeks ago about a woman who was mugged at an upscale store.

She had come out of the store and was attacked in the parking lot.

Here is a news link to the story. The address is an upscale part of town. http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/North-Dallas-Woman-has-75-carat-Diamond-Stolen-in-Violent-Attack-82752882.html


DALLAS — Blood still satins the ground where a Dallas woman was violently attacked at the Whole Foods Market at Preston Road and Forest Lane in North Dallas.

[jeepnstein]

9. "Need" has nothing to do with it.

It is our right to be armed. I take that, and all my other rights, seriously. Of course there are those people in this world who would stomp on all my rights just so they could be more comfortably in control.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. There are no safe neighborhoods, never really have been

[Euromutt]

34. My neighborhood's pretty safe

But it has the advantage that it's perched on the edge of a plateau, with no through roads, only one road in and out of the immediate neighborhood, and three ways out of the wider neighborhood by motor vehicle. Two of those can be more quickly reached from the sheriff's office substation about a mile from my house than from my house itself, and the third is a long road down to the valley with no side roads, which can probably be blocked by the city PD before any fleeing perp can get down to the valley. All the more so since people tend to speed on the roads in question, which means there are frequently speed traps set up along those routes.

However, on the street just outside my subdivision, there are quite a few assholes who let their dogs run loose in the street (which is illegal within the city limits, but that street was only incorporated a few years ago. Just over a year ago, I was out for an evening stroll with my (then) 2 (almost 3) year-old son when we ran into such a dog, which was under the delusion (as dogs often are) that its territory extended to the public highway about 100 meters to either side of its owner's property. It was acting menacingly toward us, and scaring my kid, so I pulled my flashlight out of my pocket, shined it in the dog's eyes and shouted "Bad dog! Go home!"

That didn't have much effect on the mutt, which I'd suspected it wouldn't, but my more realistic purpose in shouting was to attract attention from the surrounding houses so that there would be witnesses to testify, in the event that I felt the need to draw the M&P40c on my belt and shoot the dog, that I'd tried non-violent conflict resolution first. Then I looked around to see my son was haring it down the road repeating "It's okay, it's okay" like a mantra. Now I'm no expert on dogs, but I do know wolves, and I know that small stuff that runs equals prey. So just to guard against the possibility that this dog might be tempted to listen to its inner Canis lupus, I interposed myself with as broad, tall and generally dominant a posture as I could manage. At this point, I was sorely tempted to draw my handgun, but having tried to attract the attention of the residents of the surrounding houses, I didn't much feel like having to explain to local law enforcement why I'd been brandishing a handgun on the public highway, so instead I drew my pepper spray and kept it pointed at the pooch while I backed away after my kid.

I'll be honest: I was practically hoping for that cur to give me an excuse to kill it. Nobody give me that "guns cloud judgment/promote aggression" garbage; even though I had a gun on my person, I did not even draw it, much less discharge it. The reason I wanted to kill that dog was because it threatened my child. Absent the gun and the pepper spray, I was more than prepared to tackle the mutt, shove my right arm in its mouth and stab it as many times with my Leatherman Wave as it took to disable its ability to hurt my child, and hurt it beyond the ability of any veterinary surgeon to repair the damage. But because my kid went haring down the road, the same parental protective instinct that posed a threat to that canine's life also saved it, because it forced me to disengage in order to protect my kid from, say, cars coming down the road.

And that particular cur is by no means the only overly aggressive dog in my neighborhood. And so I carry; not for my own protection, but for the protection of my child. If you have a problem with that, feel free to go and fuck yourself.

[shadowrider]

35. I live in a remote area on 2.5 acres

People are always dropping off animals who show up at the house. (I live on a 4 mile long dead end). I have no clue if they're friendly or vicious. Yet another reason I have a weapon.

[Katya Mullethov]

11. "I wasn't going to mention it , but since you are compelled to ask "

"Your wife/husband really likes it when I dress up like a cowboy " , which loosely translates to " none of your business" or "Mind your own business " . Quite an abstract concept these days , not unlike self dentistry .

[onehandle]

16. Fear! Fear! Fear!

Terra! Terra! Terra!

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Do you lock your doors and windows at night?

You actually take time every day to perform that ritual? You are living in fear. You are daily devoting more time to locking your home than I do to putting on my gun.

[slackmaster]

17. Same reason I need a fire extinguisher in my kitchen

And one in the garage.

[east texas lib]

26. When the shit hits the fan, it's good to have at least a .45 caliber (or bigger) scoop.

}(

[jazzhound]

36. I was washing dishes one afternoon looking downward into the sink

when a male voice caught my attention and I looked up and out the kitchen window into the backyard, where (what appeared to be) a homeless guy was having a conversation with my lemon tree. Just at that moment, a hummingbird flew up to check him out and he started chatting up the hummingbird. I wasn't scared, but a bit apprehensive because the sliding glass door to the backyard was open. Given that the dude (mostly) had his back to me I closed and locked the door in a relaxed manner, so as not to agitate him, and moved quickly to the master bedroom where I called the police. The bedroom also faces the back yard so I was able to look out at what was happening.

By now my visitor was calmly pacing the yard, now just conversing with himself......not the least bit disturbed by the fact that I had locked the sliding glass door. The police showed up quickly ---- in just a couple of minutes two officers the size of NFL linebackers very professionally approached the man, exchanged a few words while they were cuffing him and led him out the back gate out to the front of the house. Once the gentleman was in the squad car I spoke to the officers for a bit. They told me that the guy was one of the "regulars" that occasionally wanders into yards. They did say, however, that it was exceedingly rare for homeless folks to wander into neighborhoods so far east of their usual locales.

At no time did I feel threatened or think that I was going to need one of my firearms. Part of the reason for this is that the master bedroom is door is ultra-secure. Even if he had busted in through the sliding glass door there is no way he could have busted the door open. (at least not without a breaching device) The other reason is that I sensed the visitor was of the "gentle disturbed" variety rather than the "violent disturbed" type. But it was a big wake-up call for two reasons:

1) I live in a "safe" neighborhood. I had never once seen a homeless or suspicious person in the area in the (approximately) six years I had lived there. On rare occasions, homeless folks walk up the highway past the neighborhood, but they tend to frequent areas at least six miles west.

2) Given the fact that I wasn't paying attention to what was going on around me, he could have easily opened the screen door and walked right in --- which would have most likely trapped me in the kitchen. This is what got to my nerves after the episode. And had the guy been of the more dangerously disturbed variety I would have had quite a problem on my hands, as he looked to be around 6' 4" -- which gave him a distinct reach advantage over me. I imagine I would have had a large kitchen knife to defend myself with.......but if he were to have come at me it would not have ended well.

If you would have asked me what the probability was of an event like this unfolding the day before I probably would have placed it at .5% or less. So you never really know when you are going to be that uncommon statistic. My state (CA) is of course "may issue" -- which means "no issue" -- and I obey the law. But if/when California ever joins the flock of shall-issue states I will carry. Even before this episode happened I never assumed that the "statistically improbable" couldn't possibly happen to me.