Arms and the Airport

[mgc1961]

“Do you support allowing people to carry loaded guns into an American airport?” Senator Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey asked the attorney general at a recent Appropriations Committee hearing.

The proper answer to this question would seem to be: “Huh?” However, Eric Holder is a dignified guy, so he settled for “very worrisome.”

Lautenberg has a knack for proposing laws against things that most people would presume were illegal already. You may remember him from such past hits as “Let’s Not Let Convicted Felons Buy Weapons at Gun Shows” and “Don’t Sell Assault Rifles to People on the Terrorist Watch List.”

Neither is anywhere near being passed. Or even coming up for a vote.

Now he’s got a bill making it illegal to carry a firearm into an airport. It was inspired by the Georgia State Legislature, which recently passed a bill requiring the Atlanta airport to let people with gun permits take their weapons into the lobby, baggage claim, food courts — everywhere short of the point where you take off your shoes.


Read the rest of the article at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/15/opinion/15collins.html?hp

[HillbillyBob]

1. I don't know if it is already law..but airport security has

taken my pepperspray from me as has a local police force when Joe Biden was visiting for a stump speech just prior to his election.

I keep it for aggressive stray dogs and muggers..I hope I have the presence of mind to use it at my next mugging.
Though where I live now stray mean dogs are more likely.

Lautenburg is another reason I think candidates for office should have a psych eval prior to running the first ad..

[onehandle]

2. 'laws against things that most people would presume were illegal already'

Some things are naturally sensible sounding.

'You cannot take a gun into an airport.'

Of course.

[shadowrider]

10. Sure you can. It isn't illegal. You just can't go through security with it.

[aikoaiko]

27. Its coming to Hartsfield, Onehandle.

most likely, IMHO, although Perdue may veto. Won't that cause you cognitive dissonance if he does veto?

[Euromutt]

34. It actually is already illegal to sell a firearm to a felon, even at a gun show

So the NYT editorial writer slipped up there.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Typical disengenuous pol

The area he is whining about is outside the security zone, like where you pickup and drop off passengers. Its legal in just about all states today.

He is just as bad about the non-existent gun show loophole and continues to bush the fraudulent assault rifle crap

[PavePusher]

16. Most awesome typo ever. I bow to you, sir. n/t

[mgc1961]

4. I'm definitely not pro-carry at the airport.

The way some people's heads explode over the smallest of traveling inconveniences or go at one another over such things as possession of the ashes of their recently cremated mother strongly suggests to me that the airport will be considerably more stressful for everyone if the doors are open to guns.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Does that include in the car when you pick up or drop off passengers?

What about those in properly marked in luggage? The current line is the screening into the secure area which is fine for me.

[Abq_Sarah]

38. The City of Atlanta

Doesn't believe you should be able to have a firearm on your person even if you're dropping someone off on the sidewalk.

[shadowrider]

11. Listen carefully

FLYERS are NOT allowed to carry weapons past security. They MAY have them, unloaded, in their check-in bags. An inconvenience will NOT result in THEM opening fire.

99.9% of CCW holders will NOT shoot some poor clerk and wind up in jail for the rest of their lives because the coke was warm.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. How come this hasn't already happened. Several states allow carry in airports.

The blood-running-in-the-lobbies hasn't happened yet. What make you think that it will suddenly start?

[X_Digger]

5. Doesn't seem to be a problem in the states that allow it now..

[mgc1961]

6. "Allow" is not really the same as "not statutorily prohibited."

Whether there's a statute or not, the airport police rightly take a dim view of gun or bomb talk in the terminal. A seemingly empty threat is enough to get someone ejected, as my fiance will attest.

[X_Digger]

7. nulla poena sine lege

No punishment without law.

As private property, airport owners / managers can set whatever policy they like within reason. Funnily enough, most don't prohibit firearms. Any as you can see from the map above, most states don't restrict it, either.

Frank has a hard-on for gun control. This is a non-starter.

[PavePusher]

17. I can open carry in airports in...

Arizona, Utah, New Hampshire and Vermont.

Why is it not an issue there, but would be elsewhere?

[GreenStormCloud]

26. CCW permit holders don't go around threaten people with their guns.

Doing so would be a crime. I would simply enter the airport, pick up or drop off whomever I had to, and leave. No one would know I was packing. I would not attempt to enter the secured area.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Washington State statutorialy ALLOWS it.

RCW 9.41.300


(e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

Has not been a problem. I have recently utilized this, since I normally carry, and have been called by friends and relatives for a pickup at the airport when prior arrangements have fallen through. Otherwise, I'd have to drive home, lock up the gun, and then go to the airport to pick them up.

[Walk away]

9. I think Frank Lautenberg is correct on all accounts.

There should be laws keeping guns out of airports. I would vote for and support anyone who proposed one. I am guessing that most of the people in my state would feel the same if asked.

[shadowrider]

12. You give up your first amendment right to voice an opinion on this forum

but you can post anywhere else, and I'll give up my 2nd and quit carrying into airports but carry everywhere else. You first.

See how selective denial of rights works?

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Your "first amendment right to voice an opinion on this forum"

does not exist. You have no right to post on this forum at all, as it is private property. The government is restrained from censoring the forum, but that restraint protects the first amendment rights of the owners of the forum, not you.

[shadowrider]

18. You take things too literally

Let's do it this way.

Give up your first amendment right to criticize anyone you disagree with in real life, and I'll give up my 2A right to carry in an UNsecured area of an airport.

Better?

[Warren Stupidity]

19. You have no 2nd amendment right to carry a gun in an airport.

Or a courthouse, or a school, or any government building, or any private establishment. I see why you do not wish to 'take things too literally'.

[shadowrider]

20. It isn't illegal in an airport unsecured area, they're restricted in some government buildings

and some private establishments. I honor their request and leave my firearm in the truck if I have business in a government building. I walk by any private establishment that bars them and go elsewhere. It's the 2A that gives me that right.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. legal and 'right': not the same.

If you had a constitutional right to carry a bazooka into an airport, then a law could not be written that would be constitutional that would prohibit you from doing so.

But again, I am taking you too literally.

[shadowrider]

22. When people say something, it's ok to infer certain things

It's illegal in some government buildings so I don't carry there. It's not illegal in bars/restaurants and other establishments but if the owner has a sign posted banning firearms, I honor that and spend my money where they don't.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. When gun rights absolutists get fuzzy about what is a right and what is legal

they are being disingenuous at best.

I agree that you have a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. That is quite clear in the constitution. That right does not in any way render unconstitutional laws prohibiting carrying of weapons in airports. You either understand that or you don't. You are either being deliberately unclear in your postings or you are seriously uninformed about a subject that you appear to be obsessed with.

[shadowrider]

29. I never said laws against carrying in an airport were unconstitutional

READ AGAIN: If a sign is up prohibiting firearms, even where legal, I honor that sign.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. I give up. You win.

"You give up your first amendment right to voice an opinion on this forum
but you can post anywhere else, and I'll give up my 2nd and quit carrying into airports but carry everywhere else."

[shadowrider]

33. You missed the attempt at humor (and admittedly, it was a poor one)

You have NO first amendment right to post on this board. It's privately owned and their word is final on acceptable speech.

That said, you DO have the right elsewhere, taking into account the norms (No shouting fire in a theater, etc.).

I have a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. I have NO 2A right to carry anywhere I want if it's illegal to do so, or if the owner of private property has a sign posted prohibiting them.

I think we both kinda got caught up in defending positions without bothering to see what the other person was saying. No harm, no foul.

[PavePusher]

35. "...to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed...

...except at airports."

How precient the founders were....

[Warren Stupidity]

36. If you think that means you can carry a weapon anywhere you please

you are delusional.

[PavePusher]

37. Private property owners can set any rules they want.

That is obvious.

Public property, not so much.

Sensitive/secure areas? Where do we draw the line?

What is wrong with carrying in the non-secure portions of airports? I do it all the time in four states. Utah has not had serious issues with legal carriers at schools. New Hampshire had no problems with firearms in the capitol building, until some pols had a chicken-little hissy-fit.

My general rule-o-thumb is that any politician that does not trust the People as a body, and proves it with proposed laws, should be immediately removed from office and barred from any further public service of any stripe.

[cowman]

13. Frank Lautenberg

is an ass who should have retired years ago. And what's wrong with carrying in unsecured areas of the airports? Is it because of the numerous shootouts in the airports? Oh wait, hasn't happened.
Like every other Lautenberg anti gun bill, this is going nowhere.

[X_Digger]

14. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Any state moronic enough to ban bullets that are actually safer than full metal jacketed ones deserves the politicians it gets.

[aikoaiko]

24. If that's the way you want things in Newark fine, but theFed shouldn't concern itself

with GA gun laws in non-Fed controlled areas.

This law is dead on arrival, but it will inflame anti-Democratic sentiment and hurt Democrats in the South - especially GA.

[aikoaiko]

23. Lautenberg glossing over a few things like only people with GA Firearms Licenses could carry

a firearm on airport grounds, and the areas of carry would be restricted to those areas not secured by TSA or any other LEO.

This is a good example of a Senator pandering to his anti-gun constituency by pushing around another state because of their decision about gun laws and it will hurt Democrats in the South.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Lautenberg will get nowhere with this. Oh, hey, dredging up an old thread of mine...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=263202&mesg_id=263202