Don’t shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

[Ian David]

"North Carolina State law prohibits the carrying of firearms in the Charlotte Convention Center, and the Time Warner Cable Arena," the sign outside the convention hall reads. "In addition, the Rules and Regulations of the Charlotte Convention Center prohibit the carrying of firearms in the Center. Pursuant to Time Warner Cable Arena policy, all individuals entering the Arena will be subject to a magnetometer security check."

Sound like the entryway into this years' Netroots Nation, a convention of liberal bloggers?

Well, it isn't: it's the sign outside the door to the convention for the country's largest gun rights organization, the NRA.



While the National Rifle Association is pushing for looser rules governing concealed weapons, they've agreed to restrictions opposing to the weapons appearing on their own convention floor. The national gun lobby held their event in Charlotte, NC this past weekend.

More:
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0517/nra-bans-guns-annual-meeting/

Hat-tip to: http://twitter.com/SandiBehrns/status/14170948228

[tekisui]

1. !

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That is too fucking funny. I just love it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. Venues have the right to restrict carry on site... just like homeowners in their homes.

IIRC, carry was prohibited at the last convention as well.
I don't see the big fuss.

[AlinPA]

5. To me it just seems odd that they would hold their convention at a gun-controlled place. Someone

said they got it rent free. With money tight everywhere they probably figured they would drop their principles to save some money.

[benEzra]

8. The entire state of NC is a "gun controlled place." (n/t)

[damntexdem]

17. LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

And, oh yes, LOL!

[rrneck]

3. Courtesy of X-Digger

It's not the NRA setting this policy.. it's the state of NC..
§ 14‑269.3.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x536281#536287

[Ian David]

4. But nobody put a gun to their head and made them choose NC or that venue. n/t

[benEzra]

7. They hold a meeting every year, and try to hold it in a different place

since, after all, it is a membership organization with 4+ million members in all 50 states. I doubt they'll ever hold it in California unless the laws change (half the exhibitors would be banned) and Hawaii and Alaska are out for obvious geographical reasons, but it was NC's turn, so we got it.

The NC law is pretty dumb, IMO, and there is a grassroots effort to change it to match that of most states, but it's a slow process.

[Ian David]

10. If I was going to hold a wine festival, I'd hold it someplace that would let us drink wine.

If I was going to hold a gun festival, I'd hold it someplace that would let us have guns.

Unless The NRA is afraid their members are dangerous whackjobs who cannot be trusted with guns.

Then, I'd hold it someplace that wouldn't let them have guns.

And IIRC, this is NOT the first time they've done this.

[shadowrider]

12. The NRA had nothing to do with whether or not their members could carry

It's the law, not the NRA.

[Ian David]

13. And the NRA chose to hold their convention in a venue that bans guns in a state that bans guns

There are 49 other states The NRA could have chosen to hold their fetish convention.

[shadowrider]

14. What's your point?

[Ian David]

15. My point is that if the NRA wanted guns at their convention, they could have had guns.

They could have just chose someplace else to hold the convention.

So obviously, the NRA doesn't want guns at their gun convention.

[shadowrider]

19. Not everyone boycotts states or cities for some ridiculous cause

The NRA held their convention there knowing full well what the laws are.

I fail to see a problem.

[Ian David]

20. Exactly. They intentionally chose a gun-free site to hold their gun convention. Again. n/t

[X_Digger]

23. "Again"? Try 2009 - Phoenix & Louisville.

You really should research something before making yourself look silly.

[Ian David]

24. I didn't say anything about Phoeniz or Louisville. Just that this wasn't the first time. n/t

[X_Digger]

22. Logic fail.

There's no 'obviously' about your assertion.

The claim that NRA does not want members to carry is flat out wrong. Both Phoenix and Louisville allowed concealed and open carry in the convention center. In fact, NRA fought to make sure attendees could carry at those locations.

In Charlotte, just like in every city that we have held our annual meeting, NRA is bound by legal and contractual obligations. We were unable to remove the prohibition due to state, city and convention center regulations.

Some people have mentioned an exception under the law for “A person participating in the event, if a person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.” This exception has two prongs. First, the person must be a participant. Second, the person must have permission.

While some may suggest that NRA could be the one giving permission, the reality is that NRA would not be the one who would determine whether or not someone is a participant. A prosecutor, judge, and jury would be ultimately making that determination.

Even if NRA declared all attendees participants, a prosecutor could argue that he/she was an attendee, spectator, guest of a member or a ticket holder, so that could not be relied on for a legal defense. And, in the end, it is the person with the gun who would be prosecuted. This is indeed a gray area, but without a clear exception there is a serious risk of arrest and prosecution, and NRA does not want our members risking prosecution.

The fact is if NRA only went to places that allowed CCW in convention centers, we would be limited to 2 or 3 choices. Because of the size of NRA’s conventions, we already are limited with our choices of cities that can accommodate us. We also strive to have regional balance to allow members from all over the country to attend. People should also be mindful that NRA has worked to change laws all over the country. With incremental wins, those who may not be able to carry in a certain location today may be able to do so down the road. After all, Arizona’s gun laws have come long way since we were there last year.

http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2010/03/18/a-perennial-issue/

[Ian David]

25. You've made my point for me. The NRA did the same thing there as well.

They raised a hew and cry about the injustice of not being able to have guns there... yet still chose those venues to hold their conventions, falsely declaring, "See, there was nothing we could do."

Yes, there was.

They COULD have gone somewhere else.

Like the article says, there were 2 or 3 other choices.

The fact is if NRA only went to places that allowed CCW in convention centers, we would be limited to 2 or 3 choices. http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2010/03/18/a-perennial-issue/

I wouldn't have been able to make this point without your help. Thanks!

Those "2 or 3 places" should be happy to get The NRA's business every year from now on, if the NRA was actually willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Guns in Columbine are good.

Guns at The NRA Convention is bad.

From my cold, hypocritical hands!

Set. Point. Match. Thanks for playing.

And for the record, I like guns. It's The NRA that I find insufferable.

[X_Digger]

28. "Guns at The NRA Convention is bad." -- logic fail again

The NRA has to balance the interests of its members- all of their interests. Having a convention in different locations allows a larger number of members to be able to attend a convention.

The interest of having a convention in a different place, so that a different group of attendees that might not otherwise be able to travel to the convention could attend- that is more important to the members who, after all, pay their due to the NRA.

Balancing two interests and taking one that benefits more members is somehow hypocritical?? In what world?

"Guns at The NRA Convention is bad." --- says who, you? The NRA allows guns in conventions that are held in locations where that isn't prohibited. The only way you could make that case is if it were legal in a venue and the NRA chose to deny entry to those carrying concealed.

Nice try, though. Don't let me stop you from getting your LOL on with actual facts.

[Ian David]

33. I already won. I don't have to listen to you anymore. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

35. Translation: You lost and are running away. N/T

[X_Digger]

36. Riiiight.. here, have a cookie

[jazzhound]

46. Sorry, you didn't win at all.

If you're not bright enough to understand that national organizations move the location of their annual convention from city to city across the U.S. in order to give the maximum number of their members access to that convention, you're not bright enough to engage in any aspect of the gun control debate.

[aikoaiko]

43. Priorities.

Yes, they could hold the meetings elsewhere, but bringing it to NC may have been important.

Even though I advocate for the right to carry a firearm in most places I still go to and abide by the law where its prohibited.

I don't feel very conflicted about it and I'm sure the NRA doesn't either.

[one-eyed fat man]

27. ....and they do. A different city every year.

Plain and simple, they move the convention to different cities around the country to allow as much of the membership that can to attend. I have been to past conventions in Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Louisville and Nashville, but I am not old enough to remember one in New York, where the NRA was founded in 1871, or Washington, DC, where it was headquartered until the move to Fairfax, Virginia. This year's attendance was on the order of 70,000 people, roughly 17% of the NRA's membership. As the NRA noted:

The Charlotte Convention Center does not allow the carrying of firearms, both open and concealed.

The large size of our event and the fact that many of the largest convention centers are in some of the most restrictive cities leaves us with relatively few convention centers large enough to accommodate the Annual Meetings. In an effort to provide all NRA members a better opportunity to attend the Annual Meetings, it is important that we move the event around the country as much as possible. While we will not consider bringing the Annual Meetings to a city with gun laws we feel are restrictive, we must however deal with convention centers that have restrictions simply because there are so few convention centers that both allow conceal carry and are large enough to host all of the events that comprise the Annual Meetings.

Thank you for your support!

Best Regards,

NRA Member Communications

Here in Kentucky there is a lot of whiskey made, and some of the best of it comes from 'dry' counties. You can tour the distillery, but you can't buy any whiskey in there. There is no great secret significance to that either except the local law applies "locally". You know, like that old saying about, "When in Rome, do like the Romans do."

[X_Digger]

29. And the NRA didn't prohibit guns from the convention in Louisville, either. n/t

[divideandconquer]

51. The NRA leadership is scared of a crowd full of their followers

I don't blame them!

[S_B_Jackson]

59. I attended the 2005 NRA National Convention in Houston...

held at the George R. Brown Convention Center. I have a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License and I LEGALLY carried concealed on both that Friday and Saturday. Met Gunnery Sgt R. Lee Ermey, and several of the competitive shooters from Sig Sauer, CZ, and H&K. Good thing they don't sell firearms at those shows, I'd have maxed out a couple of credit cards on several new toys :headbang:

One reason for the NRA holding their convention in locales which have some overly burdensome CCW regulations is to persuade legislators - by positive demonstration - that their concerns are not justified and that the laws should be relaxed to a more reasonable standard. And, no offense to any here at DU from NC, but some of y'all's laws are - at least to this Texan - a bit "quirky".

[ManiacJoe]

62. How did you jump to that conclusion?!?!???

[PavePusher]

32. The NRA convention is not a "gun festival".

Did you chose that terminology for a specific reason?

You can hold a gun rights convention without people actually carrying guns. Exhibitors are still allowed, as I understand, so there are guns there.

On the gripping hand, this really puts the spotlight on some of NC's silly gun laws.

For the record, I would have preferred if the NRA had held the convention just across the nearest state border, and sent the NC state government an estimate of all the revenue they lost... But I'm bitter and clingy like that.


Edit: I can't remember what South Carolinas laws are like, been years since I was last there. Virginia would have worked well...

[GreenStormCloud]

37. Another Larry Niven - Jerry Pournelle fan!

Their books rock!

[PavePusher]

57. Bien sur, mon ami! n/t

[michreject]

48. Good luck

NC has some really stupid laws. I'm about 12 miles over the TN/NC boarder.

[rrneck]

9. Why did they choose it? nt

[benEzra]

6. NC state law. AFAIK the NRA convention usually allows carry in states where it's legal.

NC's gun laws are ranked 13th strictest in the nation by the Brady Campaign, largely a legacy of Jim Crow.

[Ian David]

11. They should urge their members to DEFY the ban. Like if President Obama were speaking nearby. n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

38. Banner Idea !

Spinning a pistol on each finger perhaps ?


Look at me , look in my eyes ............ are you high ?

[Ian David]

45. LOL! I wish! n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

63. It would make it so much easier to forget

The thorough and oft repeated digital spankings .

[benEzra]

39. Why would they cater to your cartoon-villain caricature?

The NRA represents gun owners who live in states with relatively free gun laws (Vermont, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Florida, Nevada) and some with relatively strict gun laws (California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Maryland, North Carolina). There hasn't been an NRA convention here in NC in like forever, so it's about damn time we got one. And at least my state doesn't outlaw the most popular lawfully owned civilian guns in the country like a couple do. The city of Charlotte was happy to have them, but the city (and the venue) can't override state law.

FWIW, it's not illegal to carry, licensed, if a public speaker (President or not) is in your town, as long as you're not at the venue or the controlled area surrounding, and that's as true of Massachusetts as it is in Arizona. If you're blocks away and outside the secured zone, normal state and local laws apply.

[michreject]

49. What laws were broken?

Or are you trying to sound knowledgeable again?

[damntexdem]

16. LOL!

[slackmaster]

18. Unrec for deceptive subject line

:nuke:

[Ian David]

26. You're right. It should be, "NRA Again Chooses Gun-Free site for Gun Convention." n/t

[X_Digger]

30. Really, did guns travel there by themselves?

It's a convention of members. How dare they choose a place where state laws need changing. Fuck those members in NC, right?

:sarcasm:

[AlinPA]

31. "NRA Chooses Gun-Controlled site for Gun Convention" nt

[Ian David]

34. That works, too. n/t

[Glassunion]

21. Headline fail! (nt)

[proteus_lives]

40. Unrec, the OP is a liar.

[shadowrider]

41. Come on, we all know an anti would never, ever manipulate a headline

to fit their agenda. :sarcasm:

[benEzra]

42. Wow, a gun ban lobbyist says jump, and the media says "how high?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/nra-annual-meeting-no-gun_b_576680.html

That meme sure didn't take long to get from the VPC to the trenches, did it? Sugarmann posted that on Friday.

[Callisto32]

44. Your title is HIGHLY misleading.

While it is a stupid move, it is hardly the NRA saying "we don't want our own members armed here." They made a poor choice of venue.

Unrecommended for being intentionally or negligently misleading.

[jazzhound]

47. A member of the pro-"control" movement attempting to mislead?

I simply cannot abide that sir! Take it back IMMEDIATELY!

:sarcasm:

[divideandconquer]

50. The gun lobby astroturfers are scared of their own followers!

Imagine a gun fight breaking out at an NRA convention or an assassination! You can sure bet there are good reasons the NRA picks gun free zones for these hatefests.

[PavePusher]

52. Be careful there...

You are Open Carrying your ignorance.

And everyone can see it...

[divideandconquer]

53. Yea< I listened to the NRA spokesman this morning on NPR bragging about teabagger support

NRA and teabaggers, a marriage made in heaven.

[PavePusher]

55. And that has what? to do with your claim?

Nice avoidance, by the way.

[jazzhound]

60. Looks like post #46 applies to you as well. n/t

[east texas lib]

54. Well then, had the attendees all been packing heat what would be your headline?

"NRA meeting described as 'armed camp'."
"Armed NRA meeting attendees roam convention center 'intimidating' fellow conventioneers, described as 'poor tippers'."
"They look just like Teabaggers and the parking lot's full of trucks!"

Yes, what would you be clucking about then?

[PavePusher]

56. Probably the same things that made the headlines during the Phoenix convention...

Whole lotta nuttin'.

[east texas lib]

58. Hey what's up!

How's the windage and elevation out your way?;-)

[PavePusher]

61. Haven't had time to check yet.

Been juggling change of duties, blown head gasket on truck and upcoming inspection.

I've got some range time scheduled for Saturday/Sunday, I'll be sure to post an update... :headbang: