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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:50 AM
Original message
Canada: Pupils Told to Cool It on Snowball Fights
Link

<snip>

A snowball fight is almost a rite of passage for students in Canada but Toronto schools are moving to strengthen a ban on the practice they say is violent and dangerous.
As the first big snowfall greeted Canada's most populous city this week, schools encouraged students to engage in kinder, gentler activities, such as building snow forts or riding sleds.

"We don't encourage people to throw things at other people - rocks, sticks or snow," Maureen Kaukinen, system superintendent for the Toronto District School Board, told Reuters on Tuesday.

While snowball fights are expected to continue to rage off the schoolyard, Kaukinen said schools cannot condone acts of violence.

<snip>

Schools have had problems with snowballs in the past. In December, a child was mistakenly trapped in a giant snowball his friends were rolling in their school yard in nearby Niagara Falls. Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation was required to revive him. (What in the holy hell?)

Kaukinen said that to avoid such dangers students are reminded that snow should stay on the ground and not become an instrument of violence.

<snip>

-----------

Yes, snow is now an *instrument of violence*!

We can add these activities to the list of violent activities, not to be condoned:

1) Playing cowboys and Indians
2) Playing cops and robbers
3) Snowball fights

Anybody have any more?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. well
"We can add these activities to the list of violent activities, not to be condoned:

1) Playing cowboys and Indians ..."


If someone is aiming projectiles at someone else, I suppose so.

"... 2) Playing cops and robbers ..."

If someone is aiming projectiles at someone else, I suppose so.

"... 3) Snowball fights"

Since by definition someone is aiming projectiles at someone else, I suppose so.

It strikes me that schools might have some liability issues here. Allowing activities on school property in which someone aims a projectile at someone else -- a projectile that may be quite dense and be travelling at a pretty high speed -- could result in injuries that the school board might be regarded as having had a duty to attempt to prevent.

A well-made, well-thrown snowball can easily break a window. Consider the possible result if the same snowball were thrown with the same speed and accuracy at someone's face. I guess snowballs are kinda like firearms ... they can be used for good or evil, and the intention of the person using them can be a determining factor. I'm sure that kids could play with guns in the schoolyard quite safely too, as long as none of them aimed a gun at another kid's head and pulled the trigger. Most schools seem to consider it wisest just to prohibit kids from playing with guns in the schoolyard.

"In December, a child was mistakenly trapped in a giant snowball his friends were rolling in their school yard in nearby Niagara Falls. Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation was required to revive him." (What in the holy hell?)

Yeah ... I never heard about that one. Wonder whether someone was planning to roll him all the way to the Falls and over ...? But remember, people who die in avalanches (and there are a few every year in Canada -- Pierre Trudeau's son died that way a few years ago) die of suffocation, the same way I hear people were dying in Bam after the earthquake -- the snow (dust, in Bam) fills in the spaces around them, leaving no room for air.

I was a model child, myself. Never threw naughty snowballs. And then, in my second year university, I was out late at night in the first snowfall of the year, walking to Dirty Jimmy's with some of the guys from my house for chili, and an evil spirit descended on me and I scooped up some snow, balled it up and threw it at a car. Much to my surprise, I hit the windshield. And the car stopped, and the driver got out and began shouting and gesticulating at me ... and all my big strong male friends moved away from me on the sidewalk and sidled off down the street ... and I grovelled and apologized and promised never to do it again.

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We never got to throw snowballs in school when I was a kid
No snow, no snowballs.

:evilgrin:
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Here in the states
at least when I was just a spud, everyone knew if you hit a car with a snowball you ran like the wind.
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Look out...
Next thing you know they will ban dodge-ball...and civilization will come to a crashing end...
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Watch out for ...
...gun shaped chicken fingers, too.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sounds reasonable to me
Snowballs can cause eye injuries. Snow can contain dangerous sharp or hard objects. Undisciplined fighting can escalate into dangerous fisticuffs among groups of kids. While kids are at school order must be maintained, and rough physical activity confined to controlled athletic activities done with adequate safety precautions.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Kind of makes you wonder
how we all survived as kids.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I often wonder about that, but times are changing even in Canada
I used to go to high school with a folding Buck knife - Model 110, the famous Folding Hunter with a 4-inch very sharp blade - in a sheath hanging visibly from my belt. There was no school rule against carrying knives at that time. It was seen as a tool. Nobody ever questioned my motivation for carrying it or my right to do so.

That kind of knife is still legal to carry in public in that manner in California, and it's even legal to carry it in public concealed as long as it's folded. But any kid who got caught with one of those in a California school today would face severe disciplinary action. Things have gotten so tight that teachers are afraid to carry so much as a Swiss Army knife in their pockets for fear of getting caught and fired.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. In October we brought our shotguns to school
and left them in the Deans office (1963).

You would bring them in a car or walk in with them unloaded, with the bolt removed or broken open, and lean them against the designated wall in Mr Callan's office. You left your shells there too.

On the way home we would walk the recently picked cornfields looking for ring necks or an unwary rabbit. Sighted few and shot even fewer, but it was great way to spend a golden autumn afternoon with friends.

As long as it was legal hunting season we were allowed to bring them, no problem. You could walk into Western Tire and and Auto to buy one when you were 18.

I'm still trying to figure out how we had less gun violence with lots more gun availability. Maybe it was worrying about the old man (who had a hand the size of Utah) giving me hell if I even thought about doing something stupid.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Similar thing here.
Except that we used to put them in a designated locker. That was late 60's and early 70's.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah, I'd much rather get cauliflower
ears from wrestling, torn ACLs from football, etc.

ha, ha, ha
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. I got me one of them ears too
Can't use half of the damn earphones they have with cell phones or radios.

I wrestled in the era just before head gear was mandatory. Head gear was optional mat burns came with the territory. (AS long as they weren't on your shoulder blades!)
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Let's put them in a big bubble
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. tsk

Children in bubbles would undoubtedly suffocate. Just like children inadvertently rolled up inside a giant snowball. What a strange thing to propose be done to children. But then, I guess as long as the parents are informed ...

There's a question for you in post #15. I am anxious to know your answer.

.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. There's a question for you...
"Just like children inadvertently rolled up inside a giant snowball."

Was it inadvertent?

"Hey, let's roll this giant snowball over there by that kid-looking statue."

Have you seen Austin Powers? I am reminded of the scene with the steamroller.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. ANd the more I think about it...
How do you *mistakenly* roll somebody INTO a snowball? I can see being run over by a snowball or being hit by a snowball. But, being *assimilated* by a mass of snow that other kids are pushing around?

I don't think that was the case. I think this is more possibly a case of kids trying to make a human snowman.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. well obviously

... they didn't know the snowball was loaded.

Har! har! har!

.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That was immensley baaaaad...
*groan* But, seriously, how can somebody be "mistakenly" rolled into a snowball?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I can hardly answer

... I'm gasping for oxygen and choking on my diet coke ... I have to stop reading my own jokes ...


But nope, can't answer that one. I thought your question was very much to the point. "What the holy hell?" I dunno. I don't recall ever rolling anyone up inside a giant snowball without noticing that s/he was there, myself. Or, as might have been more likely, being rolled up inside one, mistakenly or purposely. (I did once represent the father of a 16-yr-old at the inquest into the son's death inside a snow fort, but I don't think anyone had mistakenly shoved him in there, and he died of non-snow related causes anyhow, very strange and sad case.)

Perhaps it was "mistaken" in the sense of "we didn't realize what an incredibly moronically dunderheaded thing this was to do" ...

.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Similar to kids around here...
...playing in pile of leaves that have been raked to the side of the road. Teens (usually) have then driven through the leaf piles just to scatter the leaves no knowing that kids were in there.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. but

... has anybody ever broken a bone falling off a pile of leaves?

My little sister broke her leg falling off a snowpile when she was in public school. And she isn't even the klutz in the family (that would be me, who broke my foot falling off a sidewalk about 10 years ago, and then broke the same bone falling off her driveway last summer).

I do remember making forts in the ploughed piles on the side of our road. But I think everybody who drove on that road knew there might be kids in the snowpiles, and really, unlike the leaf-pile case, only an idiot deliberately drives into a three-foot snowpile. (Nobody had SUVs or 4-wheel-drive back then, of course.) Nonetheless it's not a wise activity on a busy street, I'd agree.

I posted a clearer report of the snowball kid story down below. Giant-snowball-roll seems to be an approved, organized schoolyard activity these days. Apparently somebody neglected the "ensure that everyone participates in rolling the ball" part of the instructions, since there was at least one kid who wasn't participating, he was underneath the ball.

.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Can't we just...
...outlaw snow and leaf piles?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. It was Snowball of Borg...
put to assimilate everything in it's path!!!

:evilgrin:
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. ah
Then it will match my winter coat, which the clerk in Sears assured me was "genuine Borg". No ma'am, none of that fake fake fur for me!

Dog only knows what powers of attraction the snowball would have if I were the one rolled inside it then, though. The snowball that ate Toronto ...

... with apologies to Norman Greenbaum - The Eggplant that Ate Chicago; hadn't thought about *that* one in about 25 years ...

.
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Liberal Classic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Approved games are as follows:
Egalitarian Chairs with soundtrack by John Tesh and the number of chairs must equal the number of students.

Our new game of Duck, Duck, Duck, Duck, Duck, Duck.
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Snow is good
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 01:42 PM by Baclava
I wish we had some in FL... no - just kidding...
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. What do you expect?
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 02:37 PM by alwynsw
We are talking about the same country wherein a school (one elementary school only) removed the word "gun" from a spelling test because, according to the parents of one of the children there is no need for a child to even know the word because of its violent nature. As I recall, there were plans to avoid the word in all ways wherever possible.

Will someone pass me my caulking thingy?

Now I'm going to go search out the link for that story.

on edit: The link is dead. Sorry. I did save a snip for some odd reason. Here it is:

The Upper Canada District School Board took the action after hearing for the pacifist parents of 7-year-old Chloe Sousa who came home with the offending word on a spelling assignment recently.

"The word gun is synonymous with death. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out why a seven-year-old would need to learn this word," said Chloe’s mom, Amanda Sousa.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I give up
But here's what I can't figger out: how come "parents' rights" are the clarion call of some folks when it comes to some things -- but perhaps not when it comes to other things?

Of course, I would not like to speculate as to the answer to that question. What I'd like is for Muddleoftheroad, who maintains what one might call a firm position on a parent's "right" to be informed of a minor's intention to terminate her pregnancy, to tell us what he thinks about a parent's right to decide what words his/her child will be taught to spell.

Then maybe alwynsw here could tell us exactly what connection he has managed to perceive between
(a) a school board's decision to comply with a parent's wishes regarding the teaching of spelling, and
(b) a school board's decision to discourage children from aiming potentially injury-causing projectiles at one another.
The connection eludes me, but hey, we all know what a dim one I am.

And then perhaps he might enlighten us as to how the latter decision might be to be "expected" from a particular country, whether based on that seemingly unrelated other case or on something else -- i.e. what there is to distinguish that country from, for instance, some other country where dodge-ball, a childhood diversion not dissimilar to snowball-throwing, has in fact, as I understand it, been banned by many schools. (I ask google for dodge-ball banned, and I get 3,560 responses ... none of the first few I glanced at in the list having anything to do with Canada.)

But here's some fun -- ask google for snowball injuries. Number two on my list: http://www.startribune.com/stories/1729/3225709.html

Chuck Foreman has blurred vision as a result of a snowball that hit him in the right eye in the third quarter of Saturday's Minnesota Vikings-Buffalo Bills game.

And some of the same snowball throwers were almost responsible for having the Minnesota defensive team play offense in the final 45 seconds of the game won by the Vikings 35-13 after Coach Bud Grant sent the offensive team and all the reserves to the locker room so nobody would get hurt.

Foreman was chasing a long Tarkenton pass beyond the end zone and was slipping backward on the snow when he was hit in the eye. The Viking running back, who rushed for 85 yards yesterday to pass the 1,000 mark and caught 10 passes for 87 yards while scoring four times, slumped to the ground from the impact.

... Francis Tarkenton was quite concerned that one of the snow balls would seriously injure one of the players.

"Chuck could have had his eye put out," said Tarkenton. "I got hit 10 or 12 times. All of us got hit. It was a most disturbing thing. What bothered me more than anything is that it was mostly adults making the snow balls. We all want to say that the kids aren't like they used to be. Maybe the problem is that the parents aren't like they used to be."
Well, it's all just fun and games until someone has his/her eye put out.

Of course, we all know what snowball fights can lead to, at least when adults get involved:

Lieutenant Colonel was killed while playing snowball fight

A Lieutenant Colonel Yury Ishlinsky, the head of fire prevention department of nuclear reactors research institute, was shot with a fowling-piece in the Russian city of Dimitrovgrad. He went out for a walk after receiving guests. The grown-ups remembered their childhood and began to play snowball fight. Ishlinsky accidentally hit a passer-by, Vladimir V.. The colonel begged his pardon, however Vladimir V. offended him in response. The quarrel began. N. left and returned with a fowling-piece. He wounded the colonel in the thigh. Ishlinsky died on his way to hospital because of loss of blood.

And I do believe that Benchley may have told us about one of these:

Guns are drawn in snowball incidents

In the first incidents of snow rage reported in the city this winter, Philadelphia police last night were investigating two separate reports of adults pulling guns on children for throwing snowballs.

Although in one of the incidents a 35-year-old man is accused of shooting at a group of children, no injuries were reported in either case, police said yesterday.

... Police said the man, whose name was not released, pulled a handgun on a 10-year-old girl after he was hit in the face during a snowball fight involving children.

... "We already had a tragedy last ," he said. "An innocent little girl was shot in the head over snowballs. It sounds to me that these adults that resort to such actions are the real children who need to grow up and act like adults."

Colarulo was talking about Ebony Smith, the then-10-year-old Overbrook girl hospitalized for months after part of her skull was shattered by a bullet Feb. 23 in a drive-by shooting that was sparked by a snowball fight.

Damn, I'd say I was pretty lucky that I threw that snowball at a Canadian car. At least getting maimed or killed by a bullet wasn't what I needed to expect.

.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Or my glue gun...ooops...I mean my...
...glue thingy.

"how does that glue thingy work?"
"You just pull the trigger...oops...I mean pull the finger powered activator."

Another...flash in the pan.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. the missing link
A quick search turned up this one:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30990

Is Benchley surprised?

And the update:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31087

Last week, the school board reversed the earlier decision, offering instead a policy whereby a parent can have an offending spelling word removed from his or her child's list for testing purposes.

... According to the report, Sousa was satisfied with the new arrangement. She told the Citizen she had no regrets about raising the issue, but has been dismayed by public reaction. In letters to the editor, on websites and on talk-radio shows, response has been malicious, she said.

"I've been called a bad mother, a horrible person. People have been telling Chloe that her mother did a bad thing. One person even said, on a website, 'If she doesn't want her daughter to see a gun, I'll show her a gun.' Is that a threat?"

Chloe's class has moved on from "G" to "H" words now.

"And you know what?" Sousa asked. " 'Hand grenade' wasn't on it. So I'm happy."


Now, maybe Muddleoftheroad will tell us what his reaction will be when his kid comes home from school with a spelling list for his kid to memorize that includes the word "fuck". After all, it's just a word, and people do fuck, don't they? Surely no one's bizarre personal value system should determine whether other people's children learn to spell a word that they hear, and really quite undoubtedly use, regularly.

I remember a grade one class of my own childhood. (WorldNetDaily incorrectly described the child in the story as a "first-grader". There is no such thing as a "first-grader" in Canada, just as there is no such thing as a Cub Scout or Girl Scout, and the courts, outside archaic-English Quebec, are peopled not by attorneys but by lawyers, who address one another as "counsel", not counsellor. Children may be Wolf Cubs or Girl Guides, and they are elevated from "kindergartener" status to be "grade ones" and eventually "niners", and ultimately become "grade twelves" but as of last year no longer grade thirteens, and may go on to be in first, second, third and sometimes fourth year university without ever being a sophomore or junior or any of that silliness.)

Anyhow. The teacher asked my grade one class for an example of a word with a "short e" in it. One helpful but spelling-challenged child raised his hand and offered "shit". Now, you see, if the class had just been taught the correct spelling of "shit", then obviously that poor child would have been spared the embarrassment of being sent out into the hall for making this unfortunate mistake.

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I'm not surprised a bit...
Nor am I surprised there was no link.

Nor am I surprised the Ottawa Citizen's archives, which go back well past the period when this supposedly occured, don't seem to have any story about anyone named "Sousa" over the past two years.

In fact, my only surprise was discovering that World Nut Daily had mentioned a REAL newspaper.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. actually

I'd be quite sure it was in the Citizen (Ottawa being the nearest big city to the scene of the horrifying crime against humanity in question).

The Ottawa Citizen, after all, is an ex-Conrad Black paper.

The on-line edition recently became accessible by subscription only. The Aspers (purchasers of Black's papers ... actually, Asper senior recently died, so there's just sonny now) are haemorrhaging money. Who they think is going to pay to read that fishwrap on line, I have no idea.

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Might be something
they'd put in but not archive, just in case someone tried to check.

Amazing how pretty much every source the RKBA crowd reaches for is a right wing load of utter crap, isn't it?
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't see the point of including...
...this...

"Schools have had problems with snowballs in the past. In December, a child was mistakenly trapped in a giant snowball his friends were rolling in their school yard in nearby Niagara Falls. Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation was required to revive him."

...in the article. That has as much to do with a snowball fight as being pushed in a kiddy pool has to do with being thrown over Niagara Falls.

But one thing I would agree with is that a snow ball fight has to be mutually agreed on. If a big kid is pummelling a smaller kid with snowballs that isn't a snowball fight it's a snowball beating. But if a bunch of kids want to gather in an area of the playground and go at it with snowballs, I say it's ok.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. volenti non fit injuria
"No injury is done to a consenting party."

If you enter a prizefight, you don't get to sue for a broken jaw.

But hmm, children don't get to complain about injuries they consented to?

We'd better ask Muddleoftheroad about this one too. I don't think children are capable of consenting to being injured.

"But if a bunch of kids want to gather in an area
of the playground and go at it with snowballs, I say it's ok."


I can think of a number of other things that a bunch of kids might want to gather in an area of a playground and, er, "go at". Shall we fit the area up with water beds?

Really. Seriously. A consensual snowball fight between kids not bent on injuring one another -- good clean fun. A schoolyard where there can be expected to be a mix of very small and very large kids, nice normal kids and very violent nasty kids -- quite possibly the stage for some bad things to be done intentionally. A violent nasty kid who hit another kid in the eye with a three-inch rock wouldn't get too far claiming that "it was just a rock-fight!" but might be more likely to try his/her luck with "it was just a snowball-fight!" And who would be to say it wasn't just good clean fun gone awry, if the school had no policy against snow-ball fights? The kid who was essentially subjected to a "snowball beating"? About as likely as any other beaten-up kid might be to point an accusing finger at any other bully/attacker maybe.

Schools might just sensibly decide to avoid the whole hassle and ban snowball fights on school grounds. That doesn't mean that the grade threes on my block and I can't still lob balls o' snow across the street at each other ... if we ever actually get any real snow this year.

.

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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. But once this happens...
..."Schools might just sensibly decide to avoid the whole hassle and ban snowball fights on school grounds" on the grounds of avoiding injury; what is next? No more games of 'tag' because someone might fall down and skin a knee?

Where does it end?
Back in the, properly ventilated, bubble?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. better analogy
"No more games of 'tag' because someone might fall down and skin a knee?"

No more games of tag because someone might shove someone else hard enough to knock him/her unconscious on the pavement.

But shoving people hard enough to knock them over is not an inherent part of the game of tag. Throwing projectiles at people's heads is an inherent part of a snowball fight. Anyone who tackled someone and knocked him/her unconscious while playing tag would pretty obviously have been intending to cause harm, not to play a game. It would be a lot harder to say what someone who put someone else's eye out with a snowball was trying to do.

Snowball fights really are more analogous to boxing matches. The whole purpose is to hit somebody, harder than s/he hit you. In either case, schools that allowed the activity in the schoolyard would pretty much be in the position of saying "off you go, see who can hit the other one the hardest", and I can see where their lawyers just might not advise that.

And hey, if enough parents don't like the rule, they just have to find some pro-snowball-fight candidates for trustee next time around, and vote 'em in. The next municipal elections in Ontario will be in 2006.

.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. So just how common are...
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 04:58 PM by RoeBear
...snowball related injuries for children?

Weren't your examples of injuries about adults in far off places, like Russia... or... or... or California?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. well ...
The internet does specialize in the bizarre.


Apparently organized snowball fights are becoming popular in NYC:
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/30036

Just like hockey, I suppose. They gotta do it bigger and better in the USA.


http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/almanac/diaryfeb.htm

4 February 1887, San Francisco, California: A rare snowfall dumps four inches (10 cm) on downtown San Francisco, with the city's western hills receiving seven inches (17.5 cm). Reportedly, excited crowds went on a snowball-throwing rampage.


http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/1996/112196/snow112196.html

A violent fraternity tradition was curtailed Tuesday night.

UW police officers arrived in front of Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) and prevented a volatile snowball standoff from erupting into complete mayhem.

... "Every minute in America someone is getting raped, killed, carjacked, buttfucked and they're wasting their time with this: kids having fun in the snow," said freshman pre-arts and sciences major Derek Lee.

... "Rivalry between houses is all right," said Brad Virata, a sophomore pre-arts and sciences major and a TKE, "but sometimes it gets taken a bit too far, like when someone gets hit in the face with a cue ball."

In the past two years, cue balls have caused serious injuries. Last year a girl in the TKE dining room was seriously cut on her leg when a cue ball crashed through a window, and the year before that, a TKE fraternity brother was hit on the head when a cue ball crashed through a bedroom window.

... Police feared that the snowball skirmish would again escalate into something bigger and more dangerous and showed up en force. At one point there were six police cars on the narrow street, and officers didn't hesitate to confront those who ignored their warnings not to throw snowballs.

At least two $66 tickets were written for "playing in the street," but no arrests were made.

But Cdn campus types can apparently be as bad:

http://www.umanitoba.ca/manitoban/20020206/news_3.shtml

The University of Manitoba has supposedly disciplined the Bison football athletes involved in an incident that occurred in December, but has refused to comment on what measures have been taken against the students.

In the early hours of December 16, 2001, Ken Vermette, Greg Birza, Ryan Ralston and Jaret St. Andrassy, allegedly assaulted campus security officers who were attempting to break up a snowball fight after Wise Guys On Campus had closed at 2.30 a.m.

According to the Winnipeg Sun, the four have been charged with a number of offenses, including assault, assaulting a peace officer, and obstructing a peace officer, and promised police that they would temporarily stay off campus.

Jim Raftis, director of security services at the university, said one of the security officers involved in the altercation was currently having some dental work done, and had not yet returned to work. The other two officers, one of whom had a black eye, while the other suffered back injuries, have since returned to work performing light duties.
Okay, injuries probably not from snowballs.


I fear I'm getting side-tracked by all this.

Here we go: http://www.rescue.vt.edu/news/12-05-2003.html

Snow began to fall early in the morning on December 4th. It continued to fall throughout the day and well into the evening. Students went outdoors to enjoy the snow between classes and in the evening when the University cancelled classes after 5pm. Many students were found outdoors playing football during the day (one patient was treated for a knee injury when tackled) and participating in various snowball fights once the snow became more wet in the late afternoon.

In the later parts of the day, the snowball fights became more organized as the annual "first-snow snowball fight" between the Corps of Cadets and the Civilians began. The snowball fight produced six patients who were treated and evaluated by Virginia Tech Rescue personnel. Five of the six patients were transported to Montgomery Regional Hospital for further evaluation.

While the snowball fight claimed 6 causualties (1 hand laceration, 1 shoulder injury, 1 knee injury, and 3 eye injuries) ...


Aha, some clarification on that giant-snowball kid:

http://safeontario.org/English/index.cfm/fa/Home.ShowNews/whatType/A/HowLong/60

Boy escapes snowball death trap
Date: 17-Dec-03
Desc: Wed 17 Dec 2003
Condensed from The Hamilton

An 11-year-old boy is recovering in a Niagara Falls hospital after he was trapped under a giant snowball during school recess. The incident happened at St. Gabriel Lalemant Elementary School in Niagara Falls after students built a large snowball in the playground. It rolled on top of the boy, trapping him face down. The school's principal helped free the child.

Police are alerting parents and teachers to talk to children about the danger of smothering if trapped in deep snow.


This school might want to reconsider its recess suggestions ... or just make sure the final instruction is followed:

http://www.mohawkc.on.ca/external/cira/FinalRecessRevival.pdf

Instruct the groups to roll a snowball as large as possible. Ensure that everyone participates in rolling the snowball.
... that way maybe no one will end up underneath it.

http://www.statenews.com/editionsfall96/112096/nw_snow.html

The largest snowball fight in campus history took place on Nov. 13, 1992, when five students were seriously injured and assorted university buildings sustained $2,295 in damage.

MSU police made six arrests during that fight, and Detective Maureen Ramsey of the MSU Department of Police and Public Safety said the department will not hesitate to arrest anyone involved in a fracas this year.

Finally, a Canadian report -- a crime of violence in the trendy Muskoka cottage country north of Toronto; how Canadian, I hear you cry ... the miscreant was even wearing a toque:

CRIMES OF VIOLENCE

Woman struck in face with snowball HUNTSVILLE -- Police are looking for a young man who threw a snowball into the open window of a car, striking a woman in the face. The woman and her husband were in the area of Brunel Road and Lansdowne Street East at 12:15 .m. Monday, Nov. 4, when she was hit and injured. The husband chased the man but was unable to catch him. The woman did not require medical treatment for her injuries. Police are looking for a male believed to be in his teens with short dark hair. He was wearing a toque, a light grey jacket and a black sweater with a red stripe around the bottom. Anyone with information is asked to contact the Huntsville detachment or Crime Stoppers.


And elsewhere in Muskoka, which seems to be a hotbed of snowball crime:

Police Briefs
Enough for snowballs BRACEBRIDGE -- Despite the general lack of snow in Muskoka, there's enough for snowballs, and some of those have been hitting cars on district roads. Police are asking parents to remind their children that a snowball striking a car may startle the driver enough to cause a loss of control of the vehicle, leading to a collision and property damage or worse.


And yes, it's true; snowball throwing is now an expellable offence -- from a school apparently somewhere in the Thames Valley, which would be somewhere in southern Ontario:

http://www.tvdsb.on.ca/wgrove/snowball.htm

We have an ongoing concern for the safety of the students on the playground during our winter season.

Although throwing snow and ice may be fun for the person doing the throwing and it may be considered just another part of enjoying our Canadian winter, it is often dangerous for those on the receiving end. The snow kicked up at someone or scooped and packed into snowballs on the school yard may have bits of sand, vegetation, rock salt or even shards of glass that may have been hidden under the snow. There are numerous cases of eye injuries from snowballs and we do not want this to happen to our students.

It has been made clear to all of the students that throwing or kicking snow or ice anywhere on the playground is strictly prohibited. Snow stays on the ground. Students who fail to abide by this rule may face serious consequences including suspension from school.

Please stress the importance of adhering to this request and to the consequences of ignoring it.

We appreciate your support and assistance in keeping our school safe.


There are lots of statements around that snowball injuries are common, but few actual reports of specific injuries ... perhaps they're just too common to report.


And now, words to live by:

http://www.ucci.com/forms/snowball_safety.pdf

Making and throwing snowballs can be a lot of fun. But it can also be dangerous if you are not careful. Follow these tips to help prevent possible injuries.

1. When making snowballs, use nothing but snow. Using ice, stones or other objects in a snowball can cause serious injury.

2. Eyes, ears and teeth can be hurt when hit with a snowball. When throwing a snowball, never aim at someone's head or face. It is best to aim at trees, fences or other hard, indestructible surfaces instead of people. It is also best to ask an adult for permission to throw snow at something.

... And remember to brush your teeth after eating any snacks or drinking hot cocoa.


.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. You take toques off of a...
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 08:02 PM by RoeBear
... light grey jacket and a black sweater with a red stripe around the bottom?

I guess thats ok if it's woven from hemp.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. Oh, Canada
Oh, come on.

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. Growing Up In NJ Back in the '50s and '60s.....
...we were not allowed to make or throw snowballs on school property. Period.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. now you mention it

Same era, and a dim recollection of the same rule. Not being a rule-breaker, I only ever had to be told once. I didn't become a wild child til I turned 16 and ran away to university ... and started smoking dope and organizing political protests and throwing snowballs at cars ...

.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
42. Evil snowballs...
OK, they say making snow forts and snowmen is OK, then complain about the kid who was trapped in a giant snowball.

What good is a giant snowball except to make a snowman? Were the kids going to throw it?

As for other violent activities that could be banned, I'd suggest "resisting an attacker" would probably qualify. "Don't do that, you might get hurt, or worse yet, hurt your attacker!!!"
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
44. does this mean they're going to ban....
putting a handfull of loose snow down the inside of your friend's shirt?

"No more fun of ANY kind!!!"--Dean Wormer
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
45. More snowball related violence...and they have GUNS!!!!
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