GUNS IN THE NEWS--January 12, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
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4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[demsrule4life]

1. Robbers run into problems trying to hold-up Missouri liquor store

Independence, Missouri) Jan. 10, 2004 - Two robbers ran into a major complication when they tried to rob a Missouri liquor store

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1595548

[MrBenchley]

2. No Interest in Primary at New Hampshire Gun Show

"Still, it is immensely entertaining for me to be a ‘slave’ to such a fetish, particularly as I am dominant in all other areas, and not known to lose control in such ways."

http://www.londonfetishscene.com/newsdesk/ViewArticle.asp?ArticleID=1144

"It was a lot harder, however, to find someone interested in the state's upcoming Democratic presidential primary -- let alone someone planning to vote in it.
Setterlund said none of the Democrats running for president interests him -- not even Howard Dean (news - web sites), who earned high marks from the National Rifle Association during his past tenure as governor of Vermont.
"What I don't like about Dean is his relationship to the whole gay situation," he said, referring to the landmark legislation Dean signed in 2000 allowing gay and lesbian couples to form civil unions. "By opening up his state to that, he's opened a Pandora's Box."
Joe Goss, who brought grandsons Douglas and Cameron to the gun show where he bought them paper shooting targets, chuckled when asked if he would be voting in the Democratic primary.
"My father would roll over in his grave. I'd never vote Democrat," said Goss, 45, who then added: "Well, only if the Republican was a real ass." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040111/pl_nm/campaign_gunshow_dc_1

One wonders how much worse than pResident Turd someone would have to be, for that "enthusiast".....

[demsrule4life]

3. Man opens fire on attempted armed robbers after work

DURHAM -- The table was turned on a pair of armed robbers when one of their would-be victims opened fire on them Thursday night at the Oxford Commons shopping center.

http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-433637.html

I will concede that this man needs to learn how to shoot under stress.

[MrBenchley]

4. Victim of shooting dies; getaway car is recovered (AZ)

"Tucsonan James Quezada died Saturday morning of gunshot wounds he suffered Friday when he got out of his car on the South Side and had a confrontation with two teen-agers in another vehicle, police said.
Quezada, 26, died about 11 a.m. at University Medical Center, said Sgt. Judy Altieri, a Tucson Police Department public-information officer. Police are investigating his death as gang-related because he had a gang affiliation and the two teens also may have had them, she said.
At about 11:30 a.m. Friday, Quezada was driving east with a passenger when he had an altercation with the two in the other car. Quezada stopped and got out of his car to approach the other vehicle when he was shot, police have said. The incident occurred in the 1400 block of East Valencia Road near South Park Avenue, within Tucson city limits. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/azstar/20040111/lo_azstar/victimofshootingdiesgetawaycarisrecovered

[MrBenchley]

5. Man dead after shooting in Concord's downtown (CA)

"CONCORD - A man was shot and killed while driving in downtown Concord early Sunday, and his car crashed into the steps of the sprawling Brenden Theatres movie multiplex, police said.
Max Antonio Cruz-Garcia, 23, of San Francisco, died at the scene, police said in a written release.
So far, witnesses have given conflicting accounts of what happened and descriptions of those involved, police said.
People riding in at least two vehicles seem to have been arguing as they drove on Galindo Street about 2:30 a.m., police said. It wasn't clear whether Cruz-Garcia was involved in the argument, police said, but someone from one of those vehicles apparently fired into his 1999 Lexus sedan."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/7690070.htm

[demsrule4life]

6. Hays man will not be tried for killing intruder

Resident shot man when he attacked officers, sheriff's office says
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/metro_state_f3ef068bd1b151f90069.html

[demsrule4life]

7. Police say man fatally shoots would-be carjacker

01/11/04 - HOUSTON) — A man who says he was being carjacked shot and killed the person trying to rob him.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/011104_local_carjacker.html

[MrBenchley]

8. Off-Duty Officer Shot (TX)

"An off-duty officer in street clothes was shot inside his own vehicle outside a southwest Houston gas station Monday morning.
Officials told News2Houston the officer was shot at a Texaco gas station on South Gessner at 6:22 a.m. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_kprc/1953106

[MrBenchley]

9. Teens Shot Outside Auto Show (MI)

"Two teenagers were reportedly shot outside Cobo Hall Saturday as the North American International Auto Show was ending for the night.
Witnesses said a black Ford drove up near Washington and Congress and someone inside started shooting. This reportedly happened just after 10 p.m. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_wdiv/1953104

[MrBenchley]

10. Man, 29, shot dead in chest (NC)

"One man is dead and another charged with murder after a shooting in Gaston County early Sunday.
Police were called to a house near Dallas in rural Gaston County just after midnight. They found Glenn Allen Brown II, 29, dead of a gunshot to the chest.
Investigators said the shooting occurred outside Brown's parents' home on Dallas Spencer Mountain Road. Police said it wasn't clear late Sunday whether Brown, who was married, also lived there."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/7689101.htm

[MrBenchley]

11. Police: Children Witness Mother's Shooting (MI)

"Three children witnessed their mother being shot by her husband on the city's east side Sunday evening, according to police.
Jumeeli Moore, 31, was shot in the head at the home on Marlborough Street following an argument with her husband, Wanta Moore, 28, police said.
"We have no information on what the argument was about," Detroit police Officer Derek Jones said. "This was between the husband and his wife."
Police said Wanta Moore pulled out a handgun and shot his wife in the head, then chased her children outside into the cold. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_wdiv/1953190

[MrBenchley]

12. Police Investigate Arlington Shooting (FL)

"Police are at the scene of a shooting in Arlington where a victim was found in a car at the corner of University Boulevard North and Lake Lucina Drive.
Investigators believe the shooting occurred at an apartment complex on Fort Caroline Road, but the victim had apparently driven south of Jacksonville University before stopping.
While there's no name of the victim released, the injuries were considered life-threatening and homicide detectives were called."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_wjxt/1953302

[MrBenchley]

13. Police: Man Pointed Gun at Driver on I-4 (FL)

"Deputies arrested a man they say pointed a handgun at a passing driver on Interstate 4 and led law enforcement on a vehicle pursuit Saturday night, the Polk Sheriff's Office said.
Robert Lee Johnson, 22, of Pahokee, faces numerous charges, including aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer and drug possession. He was held Sunday at the Polk County Jail with no bail.
A driver on I-4 called 911 about 11:45 p.m. and said a westbound driver pointed a handgun at him. When deputies tried to pull over Johnson's car, he drove in the median before a deputy eventually was able to maneuver his patrol car into the path of Johnson's vehicle to stop it, a report said."

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040112/NEWS/401120385/1004

[MrBenchley]

14. Man Dies In Shooting Outside Neighborhood Bar (OH)

"Friends of a man who was shot and killed over the weekend said he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Michael Royels, 25, of Evanston, was shot in the face as he stepped out of Perkins Bar at the intersection of Montgomery Road and Clarion Avenue just before 11 p.m. Saturday, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Witnesses said a robbery victim entered the bar a short time before the shooting, but it's not clear if the reported robbery was related to the shooting. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_wlwt/1953012

[MrBenchley]

15. Two Shot As Cars Exchange Gunfire (FL)

"Police are looking for the gunmen in a drive-along shooting that killed one man.
Officers say two cars were heading west on Sunrise Boulevard and Northwest 27th Avenue Saturday night when the people in one car started shooting at the other. The driver and passenger were hit.
The driver, Christopher Lockett, 19, of Pompano Beach died Sunday. His passenger, 21-year-old Jared Sapp, of Fort Lauderdale was treated and released from the hospital. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040112/lo_wplg/1953103

[MrBenchley]

16. Police: Greenacres man killed wife, dog, himself inside condo (FL)

"Greenacres · Ensconced inside their chalet-style condos, few neighbors knew much about the husband who police think fatally shot his wife, their dog and himself Saturday night.
James Anthony Settembre, 51, fired two shots at his wife, Debra Lee Settembre, 46, before apparently turning the revolver on himself, according to police. After discovering their German shepherd shot to death on the kitchen floor, police found the couple's bodies in the master bedroom about 6:30 p.m.
Police were called to the home in the 6300 block of Red Pine Lane after James Settembre's sister, who had been trying to reach him Saturday, became alarmed when no one answered the doorbell.
Settembre, who had been licensed as a massage therapist, had a concealed-weapons permit and no criminal history, state records show. His relatives declined comment Sunday."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pmurdersuicide12jan12,0,4466048.story?coll=sfla-news-palm

[iverglas]

17. if you read only one "guns in the news" story ...

Police: Greenacres man killed wife, dog, himself inside condo (FL)
... Settembre, who had been licensed as a massage therapist, had a concealed-weapons permit and no criminal history, state records show.

So ... I guess he musta bin a law-abiding gun owner, eh?

That doorbell-ringer shooter in FL also had a concealed-weapons permit.

Yuppers, neither of them needed that permit to have a firearm lying around with which to shoot someone on their own property ... but who the hell thought it would be a good idea for them to be toting one around the outside world in their pants? just out of curiosity.

They're all law-abiding gun owners ... up until that splitnanosecond before they murder somebody. That's the best I can figure it out. It might make an interesting question for a philosophy exam on that old essence/existence dilemma: law-abiding gun owners, are they born or made? are people law-abiding gun owners because of what they are, or what they do? can their essence change? is any of us ever anything?

(Forgive me, I'm rusty ...
To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Sartre
Do be do be doo -- Sinatra)


I'm afraid that the answer would come too late for the dead woman here, though.

.

[Romulus]

18. good thing he didn't strangle her

and kick the dog, before OD'ing on sleeping pills. :eyes:

That would have been tragic.

[iverglas]

19. but the really damned odd thing is

that he didn't.

I mean, I guess there must be some who'd find that odd. Me, I think it's pretty un-odd that someone with access to a firearm didn't strangle his wife to death, bludgeon his dog to death and kill himself with pills. I mean, just going from the purely statistical basis of the number of people I've ever heard of who did just that. Which would be: zero. (And remember, I once had to read the files containing media reports of *all* homicides in Canada in a 2-year period.)

But surely, and especially with there being so many people without firearms up here (although wouldn't somebody with a firearm be just as likely to strangle his wife, kick his dog and OD on pills?), I should have heard of somebody strangling his wife, kicking the dog and ODing on pills ...

.

[CO Liberal]

20. When a Gun Is Available....

...it would stand to reason that the gun would be the preferred tool to commit such a foul deed.

(Edited to fix typo.)

[slackmaster]

21. Unless noise is an issue

Or you want to make it look like some kind of "accident".

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20040112-1737-ca-husbandpoisoning.html

[CO Liberal]

22. Cases Like That Are The Exception

More often than not, if a gun is available the killer will use a gun.

ON EDIT - I read the story you linked to. Nowhere in there does it say that the murderess had a gun at her disposal, so it really doesn't back up your position. If you can find a story about a gun owner who used something else to kill someone else, that would prove your point, IMHO.

[slackmaster]

23. Anyone who wants a gun can get one

She could have bought one legally or borrowed one. She could have gone to a gun show and bought one from an unlicensed "dealer" - No, wait, this is California so nix on that one. She could have obtained one illegally.

Guns are either "available" or "not available". With the present state of gun laws and enforcement thereof plus the existence of illegal sources (just ask your friendly neighborhood drug dealer), literally anyone who wants a gun can get one.

She wasn't in a hurry to kill her husband. She had plenty of time to get a gun.

More often than not, if a gun is available the killer will use a gun.

That may be true, but it does not provide any assurance that absence of a gun will prevent the killing. Once a person decides to kill for financial gain, that a person's life is worth less than a sum of money, it becomes irrelevant whether or not he or she has a gun at hand.