Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Philly Police "Stealing" Guns from PA residents with Out of State LTCF

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:22 AM
Original message
Philly Police "Stealing" Guns from PA residents with Out of State LTCF
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 10:27 AM by RamboLiberal
In the last two years, Philadelphia police have confiscated guns from at least nine men - including four security guards - who were carrying them legally, and only one of the guns has been returned, according to interviews with the men.

Eight of the men said that they were detained by police - two for 18 hours each. Two were hospitalized for diabetic issues while in custody, one of whom was handcuffed to a bed. Charges were filed against three of the men, only to be withdrawn by the District Attorney's Office.

The civil-rights unit of the City Solicitor's Office confirmed that it is handling eight such cases. Two of the men interviewed by the Daily News said that they rejected settlement offers from the city ranging from $3,500 to $7,500. One accepted a $5,000 offer.

Most of the cases hinge on what local authorities call the "Florida loophole," under which a Pennsylvania resident can obtain a nonresident permit to carry a concealed weapon through the mail from another state, even without a permit in Pennsylvania.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100831_Guns_of_Contention__If_Philadelphia_says_no__Florida_can_say_yes.html?page=1&c=y

If you check the story you'll notice the people are African-American. H'mmm. Is that the preponderance of out-of-state LTCF being ignored?

Philly is notorious with PA legal gun owners for this kind of crap. If at all possible most of us choose to stay out of Philly. Nice Catch-22 there Philly, deny PA LTCF to people who have no record just on your whim - and I wonder if race is a factor in your decision - then if they go out of state to get a LTCF with PA repriocity you just ignore it. And how in the hell when you are offering these people money because of your bad arrest you somehow can't give back their legal firearm?

I hope the attorneys representing those unlawfully detained busts Philly for some big bucks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. a nonresident permit to carry a concealed weapon through the mail?
Yeah, that sounds like a real fucking good idea there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well it's perfectly damn legal
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 10:32 AM by RamboLiberal
And actually I had to go through a class for a Utah LTCF, submit my fingerprints to Utah which has FBI run them. I believe Florida requires the class & range time. Utah I'm told runs their entire database every 24 hours against Feds database. I got a Utah cause it is honored in neighboring state of Ohio.

To get a resident PA LTCF - no class, no fingerprints, $25 at my county sheriff's office.

Philly cops are ignoring the agreements PA attorney generals & state have made through the years. Philly is breaking state law.

Don't like it Philly - get the legislature to change it.

And we wonder why much of PA votes Republican.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HALO141 Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. How else do you expect them to handle it?
It's a NON-RESIDENT license. Even for residents it's handled through the mail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. It's how New Hampshire does it...
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 11:29 AM by PavePusher
for in-state residents. No problems there.

Many states have the permit applications and supporting documentation sent by mail to a central processing office.



Can you describe what you have an issue with, preferably without the profanity, which only reduces your credibility when not supported by facts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Why? I think it's a great idea...
It's not so "No Questions Asked" as you may think...

790.06License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

(1)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

(2)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant:

(a)Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;

(b)Is 21 years of age or older;

(c)Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;

(d)Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;

(e)Has not been committed for the abuse of a controlled substance or been found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893 or similar laws of any other state relating to controlled substances within a 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

(f)Does not chronically and habitually use alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been committed under chapter 397 or under the provisions of former chapter 396 or has been convicted under s. 790.151 or has been deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or has had two or more convictions under s. 316.193 or similar laws of any other state, within the 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

(g)Desires a legal means to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for lawful self-defense;

(h)Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:

1.Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

2.Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3.Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

4.Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5.Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

6.Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

7.Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;

(i)Has not been adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state, unless 5 years have elapsed since the applicant’s restoration to capacity by court order;

(j)Has not been committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state, unless the applicant produces a certificate from a licensed psychiatrist that he or she has not suffered from disability for at least 5 years prior to the date of submission of the application;

(k)Has not had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any felony or misdemeanor crime of domestic violence unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled, or the record has been sealed or expunged;

(l)Has not been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect and that restrains the applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence; and

(m)Is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by any other provision of Florida or federal law.

(3)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall deny a license if the applicant has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor, unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled or the record has been sealed or expunged. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall revoke a license if the licensee has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence within the preceding 3 years. The department shall, upon notification by a law enforcement agency, a court, or the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and subsequent written verification, suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is arrested or formally charged with a crime that would disqualify such person from having a license under this section, until final disposition of the case. The department shall suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is issued an injunction that restrains the licensee or applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence.

(4)The application shall be completed, under oath, on a form promulgated by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and shall include:

(a)The name, address, place and date of birth, race, and occupation of the applicant;

(b)A statement that the applicant is in compliance with criteria contained within subsections (2) and (3);

(c)A statement that the applicant has been furnished a copy of this chapter and is knowledgeable of its provisions;

(d)A conspicuous warning that the application is executed under oath and that a false answer to any question, or the submission of any false document by the applicant, subjects the applicant to criminal prosecution under s. 837.06; and

(e)A statement that the applicant desires a concealed weapon or firearms license as a means of lawful self-defense.

(5)The applicant shall submit to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services:

(a)A completed application as described in subsection (4).

(b)A nonrefundable license fee not to exceed $85, if he or she has not previously been issued a statewide license, or a nonrefundable license fee not to exceed $70 for renewal of a statewide license. Costs for processing the set of fingerprints as required in paragraph (c) shall be borne by the applicant. However, an individual holding an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a “law enforcement officer,” “correctional officer,” or “correctional probation officer” as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9) is exempt from the licensing requirements of this section. If any individual holding an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a “law enforcement officer,” a “correctional officer,” or a “correctional probation officer” as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9) wishes to receive a concealed weapons or firearms license, such person is exempt from the background investigation and all background investigation fees, but shall pay the current license fees regularly required to be paid by nonexempt applicants. Further, a law enforcement officer, a correctional officer, or a correctional probation officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), or (3) is exempt from the required fees and background investigation for a period of 1 year subsequent to the date of retirement of said officer as a law enforcement officer, a correctional officer, or a correctional probation officer.

(c)A full set of fingerprints of the applicant administered by a law enforcement agency.

(d)A photocopy of a certificate or an affidavit or document as described in paragraph (2)(h).

(e)A full frontal view color photograph of the applicant taken within the preceding 30 days, in which the head, including hair, measures 7/8 of an inch wide and 11/8 inches high.

(6)
(a)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, upon receipt of the items listed in subsection (5), shall forward the full set of fingerprints of the applicant to the Department of Law Enforcement for state and federal processing, provided the federal service is available, to be processed for any criminal justice information as defined in s. 943.045. The cost of processing such fingerprints shall be payable to the Department of Law Enforcement by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.

(b)The sheriff’s office shall provide fingerprinting service if requested by the applicant and may charge a fee not to exceed $5 for this service.

(c)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall, within 90 days after the date of receipt of the items listed in subsection (5):

1.Issue the license; or

2.Deny the application based solely on the ground that the applicant fails to qualify under the criteria listed in subsection (2) or subsection (3). If the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services denies the application, it shall notify the applicant in writing, stating the ground for denial and informing the applicant of any right to a hearing pursuant to chapter 120.

3.In the event the department receives criminal history information with no final disposition on a crime which may disqualify the applicant, the time limitation prescribed by this paragraph may be suspended until receipt of the final disposition or proof of restoration of civil and firearm rights.

(d)In the event a legible set of fingerprints, as determined by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or the Federal Bureau of Investigation, cannot be obtained after two attempts, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall determine eligibility based upon the name checks conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

(e)A consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country must be issued a license within 20 days after the date of the receipt of a completed application, certification document, color photograph as specified in paragraph (5)(e), and a nonrefundable license fee of $300. Consular security official licenses shall be valid for 1 year and may be renewed upon completion of the application process as provided in this section.

(7)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall maintain an automated listing of licenseholders and pertinent information, and such information shall be available online, upon request, at all times to all law enforcement agencies through the Florida Crime Information Center.

(8)Within 30 days after the changing of a permanent address, or within 30 days after having a license lost or destroyed, the licensee shall notify the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services of such change. Failure to notify the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services pursuant to the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25.

(9)In the event that a concealed weapon or firearm license is lost or destroyed, the license shall be automatically invalid, and the person to whom the same was issued may, upon payment of $15 to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, obtain a duplicate, or substitute thereof, upon furnishing a notarized statement to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services that such license has been lost or destroyed.

(10)A license issued under this section shall be suspended or revoked pursuant to chapter 120 if the licensee:

(a)Is found to be ineligible under the criteria set forth in subsection (2);

(b)Develops or sustains a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;

(c)Is convicted of a felony which would make the licensee ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23;

(d)Is found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893, or similar laws of any other state, relating to controlled substances;

(e)Is committed as a substance abuser under chapter 397, or is deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or similar laws of any other state;

(f)Is convicted of a second violation of s. 316.193, or a similar law of another state, within 3 years of a previous conviction of such section, or similar law of another state, even though the first violation may have occurred prior to the date on which the application was submitted;

(g)Is adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state; or

(h)Is committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state.

(11)
(a)No less than 90 days before the expiration date of the license, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall mail to each licensee a written notice of the expiration and a renewal form prescribed by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. The licensee must renew his or her license on or before the expiration date by filing with the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services the renewal form containing a notarized affidavit stating that the licensee remains qualified pursuant to the criteria specified in subsections (2) and (3), a color photograph as specified in paragraph (5)(e), and the required renewal fee. Out-of-state residents must also submit a completed fingerprint card and fingerprint processing fee. The license shall be renewed upon receipt of the completed renewal form, color photograph, appropriate payment of fees, and, if applicable, a completed fingerprint card. Additionally, a licensee who fails to file a renewal application on or before its expiration date must renew his or her license by paying a late fee of $15. A license may not be renewed 180 days or more after its expiration date, and such a license is deemed to be permanently expired. A person whose license has been permanently expired may reapply for licensure; however, an application for licensure and fees under subsection (5) must be submitted, and a background investigation shall be conducted pursuant to this section. A person who knowingly files false information under this subsection is subject to criminal prosecution under s. 837.06.

(b)A license issued to a servicemember, as defined in s. 250.01, is subject to paragraph (a); however, such a license does not expire while the servicemember is serving on military orders that have taken him or her over 35 miles from his or her residence and shall be extended, as provided in this paragraph, for up to 180 days after his or her return to such residence. If the license renewal requirements in paragraph (a) are met within the 180-day extension period, the servicemember may not be charged any additional costs, such as, but not limited to, late fees or delinquency fees, above the normal license fees. The servicemember must present to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services a copy of his or her official military orders or a written verification from the member’s commanding officer before the end of the 180-day period in order to qualify for the extension.

(12)No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(13)All moneys collected by the department pursuant to this section shall be deposited in the Division of Licensing Trust Fund, and the Legislature shall appropriate from the fund those amounts deemed necessary to administer the provisions of this section. All revenues collected, less those costs determined by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to be nonrecurring or one-time costs, shall be deferred over the 7-year licensure period. Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 493.6117, all moneys collected pursuant to this section shall not revert to the General Revenue Fund; however, this shall not abrogate the requirement for payment of the service charge imposed pursuant to chapter 215.

(14)All funds received by the sheriff pursuant to the provisions of this section shall be deposited into the general revenue fund of the county and shall be budgeted to the sheriff.

(15)The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing licenses to carry concealed weapons and firearms for self-defense and finds it necessary to occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed weapons or firearms for self-defense to ensure that no honest, law-abiding person who qualifies under the provisions of this section is subjectively or arbitrarily denied his or her rights. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall implement and administer the provisions of this section. The Legislature does not delegate to the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services the authority to regulate or restrict the issuing of licenses provided for in this section, beyond those provisions contained in this section. Subjective or arbitrary actions or rules which encumber the issuing process by placing burdens on the applicant beyond those sworn statements and specified documents detailed in this section or which create restrictions beyond those specified in this section are in conflict with the intent of this section and are prohibited. This section shall be liberally construed to carry out the constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense. This section is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms, and nothing in this section shall impair or diminish such rights.

(16)The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall maintain statistical information on the number of licenses issued, revoked, suspended, and denied.

(17)As amended by chapter 87-24, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the “Jack Hagler Self Defense Act.”



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You do realize that you're spoiling a perfectly good rant with facts?
Takes all the fun out of it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Sorry...
It does not feel right, so I want it to be illegal. I'm scared and I have a RIGHT to not be scared. Make the scary things illegal.

All the supposed "law abiding" citizens should not be allowed to carry, cause it scares me. Make it go away...

There... Is that better?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Almost.. needs a cherry on top..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. A state may issue any license they wish to anyone they wish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. I thought this was pretty SOP for the PPD.
I've heard numerous gun owners say that when the police respond to a situation where either a perfectly legal firearm was used in a perfectly legal manner, or even a situation where the gun was not used, they regularly confiscate the gun and it takes an absolute act of god to get it back.

One of the main reasons I have no interest in owning a gun here is that I know that if I have to use it, I'll basically be donating it to the city, whether I was in the right or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. If you have to use it...
what the police do with it afterwards should be the least of your concerns.

Just get another one if they keep it. Your life is worth more than their ass-hattery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Hello - guns weren't the reason for the police interaction
One guy was pulled over for running a stop sign. None of the cases I read mention they were brandishing the gun. No charges filed in most of these cases.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Oh, I know, these are special cases.
I just meant that Philly evidently has a bad habit of confiscating guns, even if legal, from people almost anytime they make contact with the police. The worst part for these guys is being jailed in the process.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. See this one too...
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20100903_Philadelphia_woman_hears_knock__shows_she_s_armed__police_confiscate_gun.html
After her son was killed in 2008, Sherderian Sutton got a Philadelphia license to carry a concealed weapon and a small Ruger pistol to protect herself and her surviving children.

On Monday, when police knocked on her door, Sutton hoped that they were bringing the news she's waited two years to hear.

"I thought they were coming to my door to tell me they had my son's murderer," she said. "But they were coming to take me and my gun, and now I'm defenseless."


That's why I brought it up before, just thought it was relevant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like the philly cops need to keep their sticky fingers to themselves..
Edited on Tue Aug-31-10 10:57 AM by X_Digger
.. and learn that philly law doesn't trump state law.

eta: Notice they're even 'retaining' guns from folks with a valid philly LTCF.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
8.  Sound to me that a lot of NO cops went to Philly . n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. One more reason for a federal level ccw. Works for marriage
should work for a ccw.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. This kind of crap is why I avoid Philadelphia.
Unfortunately, politicians from there seem to want to turn the rest of the state into Philly-lite.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-04-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I have to go down there on business in two weeks...
Edited on Sat Sep-04-10 12:08 PM by Glassunion
With exception of Morimoto's and Garces' restaurants, I see no other reason for the visit.

We are hitting one of each every night we are there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC