Philadelphia woman hears knock, shows she's armed, police confiscate gun

[RamboLiberal]

Philadelphia

-----

On Monday, Sutton said, she was awakened by incessant pounding on her back door about 8 a.m. She looked out of the window and saw two men and a woman at her back door, peering in her window.

Scared, Sutton said she grabbed her gun and held it at her side as she answered the door.

She said that she never left her house and never raised the gun. Although they had no identification tags, Sutton said that the three identified themselves as Wilco workers and again asked permission to work on her property. She granted it, but asked why they continued to knock on her back door, despite her previous requests to use the front door.

Sutton said that the workers went about their business but three hours later, about 11:25 a.m., police came to her door. She said she let them in and they went through her house - with guns drawn - even pointing them at her 14- and 16-year-old children.

She said that she was taken into custody, held for 12 hours - from 2 p.m. to 2 a.m. - and that her gun and her license to carry it were taken away from her.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100903_Philadelphia_woman_hears_knock__shows_she_s_armed__police_confiscate_gun.html


ALEJANDRO A. ALVAREZ / Staff photographer
Sherderian Sutton says she's "defenseless" after cops took her gun.

Wonder how much race (and in this case probably muslim religion) figures in Philly cops confiscating legal guns. I wonder if she pointed the gun at the cable workers, as she said why would they work in her back yard afterward if she had pointed a gun at them?

[Taverner]

1. CWB - Carrying While Black

Something I don't think the hypocritical NRA gives a rats ass about...

[Glassunion]

8. Um... No. They do care.

You should read up on what the did for the folks down in NO who had their firearms confiscated during Katrina.

[Hangingon]

9. I don't see the NRA in this at all

I get stuff from them all the time and there is nothing about the race or creed of legall eligible gun owners. I am so glad I don't live in Philly.

[Taverner]

12. They aren't in this at all - I was just making a statement

[AtheistCrusader]

37. "I was just making a statement unsupported by facts"

Hope you don't mind I finished your sentence for you.

[Taverner]

40. No - the NRA has never made minorities part of their tent

There was the Katrina stuff, but when Chicago Cops in the 80's and 90's did all the gun sweeps - many in minority neighborhoods - where were they? Sitting on their asses.

[one-eyed fat man]

43. You seem to have mis-remembered.

Gun sweeps brush off civil rights - Chicago, Illinois police raid of homes in housing projects

Oddly enough, the NRA and ACLU both joined to sue Vince Lane and the Chicago Housing Authority.

Clinton Lets Police Raid Projects; Warrantless Searches Said to Be Needed For Tenant Safety

What WAS notable was the outrage exhibited by President Clinton when he publicly ordered Attorney General Reno and HUD secretary Henry Cisneros to find a way to circumvent Judge Anderson's ruling calling it an "impediment to effective government action."

Makes you wonder just what exactly did he think the Bill of Rights was intended to be besides a brake on the power of the government?

Re-writing the leases on government housing so that tenants waived their Fourth Amendment rights was the Clinton Administration's answer and that was shot down as unconstitutional as well.

So while you seem to have forgotten what happened in the Nineties in Chicago, these are more recent:

NRA sues S.F. over guns in public housing

Yep the NRA's side won that one, defending Muslims too!

NRA sues Wilmington Housing Authority

Last reports indicate the Wilmington Housing Authority will settle and follow the Constitution.

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. Another gun control untruth is uncovered- This is what the NRA said in 1999:

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=16


....Until blocked by a federal court in 1994, the police in Chicago would enter public housing apartments without a warrant and conduct room-to-room metal detector sweeps for guns. The searchers rummaged through drawers, refrigerators, cabinets, and personal effects, confiscating even lawfully purchased rifles and shotguns. LeRoy Martin, then the Chicago police chief, declared his admiration for Nazi and Communist Chinese police practices.

President Clinton praised the Chicago searches, and pushed for a complete ban on gun possession in all public housing units, in which residents would have been forced to "consent" to warrantless searches of their homes.

The NRA brought suit against a public housing gun ban in Portland, Maine. The Maine Supreme Court ruled that the Portland housing authority had no power to impose the gun ban, since Maine has a preemption statute which specifies that gun laws must be made by the state legislature, not by local governments.

Every family in this country deserves to be able to protect themselves, whether they are rich, poor, or in-between, and regardless of their skin color or ethnic origins. That's what Dr. Ossian Sweet fought for seven decades ago, and that's what the gun control fight is still about today.....

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. What a blatant attempt at rewriting history! Read this report from 2001:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,157262,00.html

Time Magazine, June 24, 2001

....Now that struggle is being made even more difficult by the National Rifle Association. Last month the N.R.A.'s deputy general counsel, Robert Dowlut, charged that the C.H.A.'s gun ban infringes on residents' constitutional right to bear arms. The N.R.A. maintains that law-abiding residents need guns to protect themselves from criminals. Furthermore, it says, because most of Chicago's public-housing residents are black, a ban on guns would have a "disproportionate impact on persons of African heritage".....

While the N.R.A. has yet to sue the housing authority, Richard Gardiner, director of the gun lobby's state government-relations division, says a future lawsuit is possible. Among other possibilities, he adds, is "using legislation to prohibit housing authorities from putting such ((antigun)) provisions in place.".....

....The Chicago dispute is not the first time the N.R.A. has attacked such gun bans. A similar measure in Portland, Ore., was defeated in 1988 when both the state attorney general and the N.R.A. objected. When a federal judge upheld a Richmond ban on guns in public housing last December, N.R.A. lobbyists swung into action; in April the state legislature outlawed such restrictions....

Note: The residents of public housing in Richmond were (and are) overwhelmingly African-American.

Get started on that retraction, hmm?

[Taverner]

48. How much money did they pour into this?

Yeah, they said something or another about how unfair it is - but did they pour the same amount of money they poured into other decisions?

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. What does it matter? They did something *you* claimed they did not do.

And they did it more than once, I might add - note the Portland and Richmond cases.


For that matter, look downthread at the references to Robert F. Williams, African-American civil rights activist and author

of "Negroes With Guns". He obtained an NRA charter for his rifle club, which he used to organize and train armed defense

against the Klu Klux Klan. That was the early 1960's. No "sitting on their asses", as you claimed.


Just goes to show the truth of the old saying:

"It's not what you don't know, it's what you think you know that ain't so..."

[PavePusher]

51. You look tired...

maybe you should put those goal posts down for a while, eh?

[Glassunion]

57. *snort*

[SteveM]

70. After being sacked for 20 yards, you wanna talk money? nt

[backwoodsbob]

72. you got your ass handed to you in this

noticed you ran when beat

[pipoman]

61. Do you ever tire of being wrong about this?

What a joke. Maybe study the subject before masquerading as someone who knows what they are talking about..

[Glassunion]

13. Philly does suck for legal gun owners.

I'm glad I live out in the sticks north of Philly.

Our county Sherriff and DA encourage legal carry.

[Callisto32]

54. The sticks of PA are an excellent place to live.

The government mostly leaves you alone if you don't hurt people.

[Glassunion]

59. Yeah. We love it here

There are a few weird laws. Can't buy a 6-pack of beer. They make you buy the whole case. A 6 pack can last me more than a week why do I have to buy a month's worth of beer? I have to go to a bar to buy a smaller amount.

But overall, it is the greatest state I have lived in.

[Callisto32]

63. Yeah, the liquor laws are pretty crappy.

Though I have heard rumblings of selling it off for a big ol' infusion of cash to the state budget.

[X_Digger]

19. Yes, they do. Google Robert F. Williams + NRA n/t

[onehandle]

24. Only when pretending to care about 'them' supports their lobbyist's cause.

Just like when the GOP sticks black people behind dubya.

[Glassunion]

27. Oh please!

If they don't agree with you, they must be racist.
If they have differing political viewpoints, they must be racists.
If that lady at McDonald's put onions on your burger when you specifically asked for no onions, she must be racist.

You really piss me off with comments like that. I have to deal with racism every day of my life and for you to just toss around racism to demonize something you disagree with is truly disgraceful. Racism is no joke, and it is not an ace in the hole for you to pull out every time you want to paint a bad face on something you dislike. It is not some small trivial sticker for you to place on everything you wish to portray as wicked.

You true character shows when you make comments like that.

[jazzhound]

47. +1,000,000 NT

[SteveM]

71. I think it's called "punking." Followed by a cat's leavings in the mausoleum.

[shadowrider]

33. How's your gun/ammo prohibition coming along?

To be followed by a knife prohibition, but, that's in the future.

[spin]

26. Have your ever heard of a civil rights leader named Robert Williams? ...

Robert Franklin Williams was born in Monroe, North Carolina
in 1925. As a young man he worked for the Ford Motor
Company in Detroit until he was drafted into the United
States Army in 1944—where he learned to take up arms.

After the war Williams returned to Monroe and married
Mabel Robinson, a young woman who shared his commitment
to social justice and African American freedom. In
response to the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision,
Klan activity in Monroe skyrocketed, intimidating
African Americans and nearly shutting down the local
chapter of the NAACP. Williams revived it to nearly 200
strong by reaching out to everyday laborers and to fellow
black veterans.

When assaults on local black women were ignored by the
law, Williams filed for a charter from the NRA; the Black
Armed Guard was born. During a 1957 integration campaign
that faced violent white resistance, Williams’ armed
defense guard successfully drove off legions of the Klan.
His acceptance of armed resistance placed Williams at the
center of a debate among advocates for civil rights: follow
the non-violent principles that came to be identified
with Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., or protect black communities
with force when necessary. emphasis added
http://newsreel.org/guides/negroes_discussion.pdf

Meeting "Violence
with Violence"

"The Afro-American militant is a `militant' because he defends himself, his family, his home, and his dignity. He does not introduce violence into a racist social system--the violence is already there, and has always been there. It is precisely this unchallenged violence that allows a racist social system to perpetrate itself. When people say that they are opposed to Negroes `resorting to violence' what they really mean is that they are opposed to Negroes defending themselves and challenging the exclusive monopoly of violence practiced by white racists."

Robert F. Williams in Negroes With Guns

Other struggles in Monroe further convinced Williams that Black people could not get justice under the present system. In one case, a white man named Louis Medlin assaulted and attempted to rape Mary Ruth Reed, a young Black woman who was eight months pregnant. When a jury acquitted Medlin, Williams said he felt guilty because he had persuaded people not to take revenge--saying the matter would be handled legally. Williams said: "The courtroom was full of colored women and when this man was acquitted they turned to me and they said, `Now what are you going to do? You have opened the floodgates on us. Now these people know that they can do anything that they want to us and there is no prospect of punishment under law and it means that we have been exposed to these people and you're responsible for it. Now what are you going to say?'I told them that in a civilized society the law is a deterrent against the strong who would take advantage of the weak, but the South is not a civilized society...I said that in the future we would defend our women and children, our homes and ourselves with our arms. That we would meet violence with violence."

The next day, NAACP head Roy Wilkins called Williams and asked him if he had made such a statement. Williams said, "Yes, and I intend to repeat it over several radio and television programs in the next few days." A few hours later, Williams made a scheduled press appearance and repeated his statement. The next day, Wilkins suspended Williams from the NAACP for six months. emphasis added
http://rwor.org/a/firstvol/882/willms.htm

Strange, It would appear that that NRA was willing to help Williams while the NAACP suspended him.

In his book "Negroes with Guns" Williams has this to say in Chapter 2:

So we started arming ourselves. I wrote to the National Rifle Association in Washington which encourages veterans to keep in shape to defend their native land and asked for a charter, which we got. In a year we had sixty members. We had got some guns too, in stores and later a church in the North raised money and got s better rifles. The Klan discovered we were arming and guarding our community. In the summer of 1957 they made one big attempt to stop us. An armed motorcade attacked Dr. Perry's house, which is situated on the outskirts of the colored community. We shot it out with the Klan and repelled their attack and the Klan didn't have any more stomach for this type of fight...

And in Chapter 6:

We had a rifle club with a charter from the National Rifle Association since 1957. We were authorized to have rifles. We did target practice. There were three other gun clubs in Monroe, three white gun clubs. The white people even have two segregated professional rifle ranges. But not a single newspaper mentioned any of these facts.

from Negroes with Guns by Robert F. Williams

[Callisto32]

53. Otis McDonald

Just sayin'.

[Glassunion]

60. I hear they spent a few bucks on that guy.

Like 2 or 3 hundred bucks at least. :sarcasm:

[rrneck]

2. I guess police response time

is about three hours when someone brandishes a deadly weapon. Philly's finest indeed.

[Ian David]

5. "Hi, we're so worried about you, that we're taking your gun-- three hours later." n/t

[Ian David]

3. Is she a Muslim or a Ninja? n/t

[NoNothing]

4. Why can't she be both?

[Ian David]

6. If there are Muslim Ninjas, then we don't stand a chance. Not even Chuck Norris can save us now! n/t

[Glassunion]

30. I disagree... The Spartans had 300 to face the 600,000 Persians...

We only need 1 Chuck...

[Ian David]

32. The Persians had shields made of wicker. n/t

[Glassunion]

39. Yeah, and Chuck's beard is made out of adumantium.

[Katya Mullethov]

58. If you look closely

It is comprised of thousands of tiny fists .

[Glassunion]

62. Would that be a fisted beard, or a bearded fist?

From: http://petticoatsandpistols.com/2008/06/11/one-ranger-one-riot/

1.     If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more money than you.
2.      Apple pays Chuck Norris 99 cents every time he listens to a song.  
3.      Chuck Norris can eat just one Lay’s potato chip.
4.      Chuck Norris destroyed the periodic table, because he only recognizes the element of surprise.
5.      When Chuck Norris jumps in a pool he doesn’t get wet water gets Chuck Norris.  
6.      What is the quickest way to mans heart?
Chuck Norris’s fist.   
7.      The Great Wall of China was originally created to keep Chuck Norris out. It failed miserably.
8.      The opening scene of the movie “Saving Private Ryan” is loosely based on games of dodgeball Chuck Norris played in second grade.
9 . In an average living room there are 1,242 objects Chuck Norris could use to kill you.
10. Chuck Norris once visited the Virgin Islands. They are now The Islands. 
11.  Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits.
12. Chuck Norris puts the “laughter” in “manslaughter”.
13. On a high school math test, Chuck Norris put down “Violence” as every one of the answers. He got an A+ on the test because Chuck Norris solves all his problems with Violence.

14. The picture on the left? Chuck Norris Toilet Paper.
15. If you spell Chuck Norris wrong on Google it doesn’t say, “Did you mean Chuck Norris?” It simply replies, “Run while you still have the chance.” 
16. Chuck Norris died ten years ago, but the Grim Reaper can’t get up the courage to tell him. 
17. Chuck Norris was originally cast as the main character in 24, but was replaced by the producers when he managed to kill every terrorist and save the day in 12 minutes and 37 seconds.  
18. The best part of waking up is not Folgers in your cup, but knowing that Chuck Norris didn’t kill you in your sleep.
19. Bill Gates lives in constant fear that Chuck Norris’ PC will crash.
20. Chuck Norris was once charged with three attempted murders, but the Judge quickly dropped the charges because Chuck Norris does not “attempt” murder.
21. Ghosts are actually caused by Chuck Norris killing people faster than Death can process them.
22. Chuck Norris has to maintain a concealed weapon license in all 50 states in order to legally wear pants.
23. Chuck Norris is 1/8th Cherokee. This has nothing to do with ancestry, the man ate a Jeep.
24. Chuck Norris likes to knit sweaters in his free time. And by “knit”, I mean “kick”, and by “sweaters”, I mean “babies”.
25. Pinatas were made in an attempt to get Chuck Norris to stop kicking the people of Mexico. Sadly this backfired, as all it has resulted in is Chuck Norris now looking for candy after he kicks his victims.
26. When an episode of Walker Texas Ranger was aired in France, the French surrendered to Chuck Norris just to be on the safe side.
27. Chuck Norris once ate a whole cake before his friends could tell him there was a stripper in it.  
28. There is no such thing as tornados. Chuck Norris just hates trailer parks.
29. Chuck Norris frequently donates blood to the Red Cross. Never his own.

[spin]

36. Ninjas were Japanese mercenaries , the Muslim equivalent would be ...

Hashshashin or assassin.

The Hashshashin (Arabic: حشّاشي, also Hashishin, Hashashiyyin or Assassins) was a pejorative name given to the Nizari Ismailis, particularly those of Syria and Persia, by their adversaries during the Middle Ages. Preserved within European sources, such as the writings of Marco Polo, the term was used deprecatorily to describe the Nizaris as trained killers, responsible for the systematic elimination of opposing figures. Posing a strong military threat to Sunni Saljuq authority within the Persian territories, the Nizari Ismailis captured and inhabited many mountain fortresses under the leadership of Hassan-i Sabbah. Used figuratively, the term hashish connoted meanings such as “outcast” or “rabble”. <1> Taken literally, however, various orientalist scholars came to view the Nizaris as having consumed this substance before carrying out political killings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin

[Euromutt]

45. She's with the People's Front of Judea

Or possibly the Campaign for Free Galilee.

[DissedByBush]

79. Judean People's Front, you splinter! n/t

[DissedByBush]

77. The picture behind her is the Masjid al-Haram

It's the most famous site of the Muslim Hajj, or pilgrimage.

Very likely Muslim.

[Glassunion]

78. Good... Then she's a teruhist and they should have taken away her gunz...

Seething with :sarcasm:

[crim son]

7. Great. This is exactly the kind of shit that the rethugs love to

blame on Obama.

[Katya Mullethov]

35. Which is most unfortunate

Since this was obviously George Bushes fault .

[crim son]

68. I'm not a gun person

so I don't know who I'd blame besides the police department. You'd know better.

[old mark]

10. Philadelphia believes it is above the law in PA when it comes to guns.

There is NO legal status for a city to be exempt from state gun laws, yet Philly insists on doing shit like this to LEGAL gun owners. It is extremely difficult to get a State License to Carry a Firearm in the City/County of Philadelphia, much more so than anywhere else in the state, and despite the state's "shall issue" law.

Former Philly district attorney Lynn Abraham told the mayor that she would refuse to enforce any of the "special" gun laws he put in place because they were unconstitutional in PA. Philadelphia now has a new DA, who obviously has no such scruples about violating citizens rights and state constitutional law.

FWIW, the PA State Police are also in violation of the State Constitution because they keep records of all legal handgun transactions despite the fact that it is illegal to do so in PA. They say their records are "temporary sales records"...but the records go back to the 1930's...


mark

[MichaelHarris]

11. you guys

always leave out something, I quote the article, "Lt. Frank Vanore, police spokesman, said that according to the police report, the cable workers alleged that Sutton was pointing a gun at them when she opened the back door."

You weren't there nor was I. Those workers were and they made an allegation. Did she point it or not? Why do you guys leave out important facts like this? Do you have an agenda?

You get a huge unrec for leaving out important facts.

[slackmaster]

14. If the police didn't see her doing it, they had no business arresting her for it

When it's one person's word against another person's word, and there is no visible sign of injury, the police have no legitimate authority to arrest a person.

[MichaelHarris]

16. really?

So if someone steals your car and you pick them out of a lineup it doesn't count because the police didn't see them? You've said some crazy shit but this is without a doubt the craziest.

[slackmaster]

25. If someone steals your car, the police can clearly see that the car isn't there

:dunce:

So if someone steals your car and you pick them out of a lineup it doesn't count because the police didn't see them?

How the fuck would you be able to pick out of a lineup someone who stole your car?

If you saw them, you would have shot them for trying to steal your car.

[cleanhippie]

28. In the scenaroi you created, a CRIME WAS COMMITTED!!!!!

A car was stolen, hence a crime was committed, a police report filed, a suspect picked up and chosen in a line up. Jeesh, sometimes you can be so dense, Mike, even when you think you are being clever.

Are you going to ask AGAIN for a CWP holder stopping a shooting, mass shooting, or robbery???

[Glassunion]

15. you are ignoring

She said that she never left her house and never raised the gun. Although they had no identification tags, Sutton said that the three identified themselves as Wilco workers and again asked permission to work on her property. She granted it, but asked why they continued to knock on her back door, despite her previous requests to use the front door.

and

Sutton insists she never pointed the gun and wonders why, if the workers were scared, they continued to work on her property after she answered the door.

[MichaelHarris]

17. not ignoring at all

One side made a claim, the other disputes that claim. What happens next? An investigation. Are you assuming the gun owner was telling the truth just because she was a gun owner?

[Glassunion]

20. no I am not assuming that.

However, the side I would take is that the police in Philly handled it improperly. There have been times in Philly where the police have shown to abuse their powers, over and over again. So I guess that I'm not on her side, or the worker's side. I'm just not on the side of the police.

[MichaelHarris]

actually

you're on the gun's side but that's another debate.

[Callisto32]

56. Firearms are inanimate, and thus have no side in an argument.

Huge unrec #2 for MichealHarris for making ridiculous statements.

[X_Digger]

21. You elidided past the point..

If they thought they were in danger, why didn't the workers a) call the cops immediately, and / or b) pack up their shit and leave.

It's called the facts not matching the statements.

[cleanhippie]

29. You are right.

And that investigation requires police to enter a home with weapons drawn and to confiscate the legal property of a citizen without due process?


You are losing this one badly, my friend.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. If she brandished the weapon, why isn't anyone pressing charges?

Lacking charges, what fucking right do the police have to take her firearm away?

[slackmaster]

42. I checked PA law, and there is actually no statute that defines brandishing

What is often referred to as brandishing in other states gets billed as one form or another of "assault" in PA.

Despite MichaelHarris' poo-pooing of my previous post, I must repeat that because there was no physical evidence of a crime or injury, and all the police had to go on was a disputed verbal account of what transpired, they really didn't have enough evidence to arrest someone.

I'll give you an example from my own recent experience. One of my best friends and his wife have been harassed for about two years by a neighborhood bully who is as mean old dumbass. Last Sunday as my friend was riding his bicycle, the bully, driving a pickup, insulted him ("Bitch!"). My friend responded in kind ("Fool!"). The bully gave chase, tried to hit my friend repeatedly, and ended up driving his pickup onto a sidewalk where he was boxed in by two neighbors who saw the whole incident. One of them even took pictures of the pickup illegally stopped on the sidewalk.

San Diego PD was called, came promptly, but declined to even make a written report because they hadn't observed the incident, and there was no physical evidence. They advised my friend and his wife to get a restraining order for civil harassment, which they did two days later. Both of the witnesses were kind enough to give written statements in support of the RO. If the police had seen the incident, it could have been billed as attempted murder.

I'm not saying that things work the same way everywhere, but I think it's very unusual for the police to arrest someone with an allegation of what probably would amount to a misdemeanor at worst, without having any actual evidence other than a disputed statement by a person who presented a rather questionable story.

This story sounds to me like harassment by the police.

[MichaelHarris]

50. right about one thing

that post was poo poo

[slackmaster]

64. Thank you for your deeply thoughtful, constructive contribution

:hi:

[SteveM]

74. Looks like you stepped into it. nt

[SteveM]

73. Pretty lame: "...telling the truth just because she was a gun owner?"

Pretty weak fall-back, buddy. You fell WAY back.

[RamboLiberal]

18. Woman points gun at me

And then I continue to work in her backyard? Uh huh. Sorry but I'd be out of that yard calling 911.

BTW, you know we can only post a limited number of paragraphs from an article? Tough to pick & choose to try to make sure some copyright troll like Righthaven doesn't sue DU.

Getting back to the story, I don't have a clue if she had the gun at her side or if she pointed it at them. But is sure is she said they said situation. And I'd like to know why they felt safe to work in her back yard after she supposedly pointed the gun at them.

[MichaelHarris]

22. did the police

show up? Yup, they did. Wonder if one of those workers you just mentioned called? You did do some picking and choosing, that's for sure.

[X_Digger]

23. "but three hours later"..

.. so which is it? The Philly police take 3 hours to respond to 'woman with a gun', or the workers called sometime after they did their work, which blows their credibility?

[RamboLiberal]

31. As pointed out numerous times - 3 hours later

You don't stick around working near someone who pointed a gun at you!

You do your share of picking and choosing as well.

And didn't you get the point why we have to pick and choose what we post here from a media site? If you haven't been following do yourself the favor of googling Righthaven.

[one-eyed fat man]

65. Where the cops ride in from took 3 hours?

Chasing the black white supremacists shooting up the jail in Moscow?

[Callisto32]

55. You do know that forum rules prevent posting the whole article, right?

Of course you do.

Huge unrec for MichaelHarris for pretending to not understand what is going on to attempt to make a point.

[shadowrider]

34. Knock knock

Who's there?

City workers

Hang on (opens door, doesn't show gun)

Whatchu want?

We have to do some work

Well, go on then

"Dude, did she have a gun?"
"I think so"
"Wanna call the cops?"
"Nah, we're paid by the hour, we'll call after work"

[spin]

41. When I lived in Tampa, I answered the door many times with a gun ...

in my hand.

Sometimes I concealed it under a magazine or folded newspaper, and if I allowed the person to enter the house, I merely laid the gun which was still under the magazine or newspaper on a table. No one ever knew that I was armed.

When I got my first snub nosed revolver, I changed my tactics. When I heard a knock on the door, I would drop the snubbie into my pants pocket and open the door with my hand casually in my pocket.

If the lady would have used a tactic like this, she would have had no problems. I'm not arguing that she did anything wrong, but often people overreact when they see a firearm. I have little interest in scaring people, but I do like to have a chance in case of a home invasion.

Probably race and religion did play a role in the incident, which is why it took the workers three hours to contact the police.

[Callisto32]

52. Wait, WHAT?

"Even if she's found not guilty or the charges are dropped, Sutton will still have to petition the court to get her weapon back."

How the hell do they get away with THAT, I wonder.

EDIT: Also notice that no mention of a warrant was made. This certainly seems like a time they would need one, unless she gave them permission to search.

[one-eyed fat man]

66. Check the other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=337582&mesg_id=337582

"In the last two years, Philadelphia police have confiscated guns from at least nine men - including four security guards - who were carrying them legally, and only one of the guns has been returned, according to interviews with the men."

The police have been hassling folks with out of state concealed carry permits and confiscating their weapons. This is "business as usual" in Philadelphia. Somehow, the high-grade, high quality guns "vanish" from the evidence locker while the pot-metal crap lingers. Must be a corrosive atmosphere of some kind, maybe they should have the EPA test the air?

[Callisto32]

67. Straight into "Philadelphia's Finest's" safes, one would presume.

[Euromutt]

69. Typical "civil asset seizure," courtesy of the War on Drugs

Even when there's no criminal conviction--hell, even if nobody's charged--government in most states can file a civil suit against property they suspect has been used in a crime. Because it's a civil procedure rather than a criminal one, they only have to show a "preponderance of evidence," rather than guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." Getting your stuff back requires you to actually prove your innocence, and because it usually costs more in legal fees than the stuff's worth, most people don't bother.

And by all accounts, police forces have become overly keen, even dependent, on the extra income generated from auctioning off seized property (talk about conflict of interest). It's a very, very ugly system, though fortunately, a backlash is finally getting underway.

[SteveM]

75. Yep, even some GOPers got tired of hearing from their Republican constituents...

about having their places, property seized because some unknown blow-hole had grown a pot-plant on the back forty. Nearly happened to my Dad when he rented 40 acres to a man who was supposed to be growing vegetables. Fortunately, we hunt & fish the property, and discovered his "all natural" stuff and dug it up.

And the rest is history!

[DissedByBush]

76. Can't have them niggers gettin' all uppity you know

Double that for being a woman, and again for being a religious minority, and you know she can't be allowed to be strong in defense of herself, her family and her home.