Wilmette Village Board Gets Barrage Of Criticism For Handgun Ban

[RoeBear]

http://www.wbbm780.com/asp/ViewMoreDetails.asp?ID=32912

"If we hear someone screaming, may we then come out of our locked rooms and, brandishing our phones, confront the perpetrator?" asked an incredulous Henry Koslowski."

"Gun advocates chuckled as Conceal Carry, Inc., President John Birch mocked the ban. "Anything that attracts criminals to your town and away from mine, is a good thing," Birch said. "I want to assure you I support your law. Keep your law and I request that you also ban knives, crowbars and maybe automobiles."

"Two Chicago radio talk show hosts even spoke against the ban, claiming listeners identifying themselves as being from Wilmette told them overwhelmingly that they were upset by the ban and the charges filed against 54-year-old Hale DeMar."

[damnraddem]

1. Despite the nonsense from the gunloons, the ban does likely go too far.

A better approach is to outlaw concealed carry, regulate other transport and use of guns outside the home, and require safety devices and safe storage of handguns in the home. The ban might even actually infringe on the 2nd Amendment, depending on what judges interpret it. The police chief is right, however, that guns in the house are far more likely to hurt or kill innocent citizens than any evil-doers who break into houses. Still, there is the question of how much autonomy one needs to make decisions about one's own home -- a difficult question, because guns can kill those outside the home or outsiders who enter, legally, into the home.

[Emoto]

4. Think about your logic for a minute

Who will obey your laws banning CCW, etc., etc., etc.? Who? Will the criminals obey those laws? No, of course not. Then, who will obey them? Honest, law-abiding folks, that's who. How much of a problem are decent, honest, law-abiding people? Not much of a problem at all. They're the good guys, remember? So, all you succeed in doing is a sort of OSHA for criminals, assuring them that their prey will be unable to defend themselves. Good going.

[alwynsw]

6. Excellent post!

Well stated! Bravo!

[Paladin]

9. Those Honest, Law -Abiding Folks....

...aren't running afoul of laws prohibiting bank robbery and rape, either. Shall we just do away with such laws on that basis?

[beevul]

10. Nothing like Comparing...

thievery and violation of the worst most evil nature

with

being allowed the tools with which to defend ones self

for the purpose of argueing against CCW.

To argue against CCW is an insult to victims of those that don't obey the laws prohibiting bank robbery and rape.

[Columbia]

12. Not the same at all

Those laws have to do with true crime and violence, the act of taking another's property or rights. Those laws exist to deter and punish those who have the audacity to commit those atrocious crimes.

Gun control laws, however are prior restraint laws that have nothing to do with crime prevention and exist only to punish law-abiding citizens who have the audacity to keep and bear arms that they feel are most effective in defending their lives and property.

A more apt comparison between gun control laws would be if a law existed to gag all persons watching a movie to stop a person from yelling fire. Ridiculous right? So is the notion that gun control laws will magically reduce crime.

[MrSandman]

15. Well said

[Paladin]

23. No Sale

There is proof in the news every single day that there are far too many guns in the hands of far too many sick and criminal individuals in this country, and the RKBA crowd seems pridefully intent on preventing anything being done about it. If you want to suspend reality and pretend like only good people possess guns for only good purposes, be my guest. Just don't expect me or any other thinking individual to join in such delusional fantasies. And as for the notion that such gun laws constitute some sort of prior restraint---show me the case law....

[Columbia]

24. Prior restraint

It's quite simple if you think about it. Gun control laws restrict firearms in the hope of preventing use of said firearms in commissions of future crimes. Who follows these laws? Why law-abiding folks who aren't likely to commit these crimes in the first place of course.

The so-called proof in the media of crime commimtted with guns is a fallacy. The media does not show the 800,000 - 2.5 million defensive uses of firearms a year simply because to them they are not newsworthy. What is in the news is not representative of reality.

[Paladin]

31. Pathetic Response---Even By RKBA Standards

If you have to resort to gratuitous media-bashing like that, you might as well put on a Dittohead T-shirt and exhibit a little honesty; you're not fooling anybody around here. The militant RKBA movement is overwhelmingly a right-wing, Republican, Democrat-hating enterprise; thanks for supplying further proof......

[beevul]

32. Since when...

"The so-called proof in the media of crime commimtted with guns is a fallacy. The media does not show the 800,000 - 2.5 million defensive uses of firearms a year simply because to them they are not newsworthy. What is in the news is not representative of reality."-Columbia


is pointing out that "what is in the news is not representative of reality" considered media bashing?


If I point out something that the news media doesn't print because its un-news-worthy, can I be a media basher too?

[Columbia]

33. Geez, getting a little hostile eh?

Sorry, but basing your worldview on anecdotal media reports isn't evidence in my book. Additionally, your hateful attitude towards gun-owners and gun-rights activists are exactly so many Democrats have left the party. I'm here to try to get our party back on track and relevant again by returning to our pro gun-rights roots.

Look here for stats on defensives uses of guns:

http://www.guncite.com/gcdgklec.html

[RoeBear]

36. You could even say that he is...

...acerbic.

[RoeBear]

34. When you characterize it like that...

...you are probably right." The militant RKBA movement" probably is an
"overwhelmingly right-wing, Republican, Democrat-hating enterprise".

On the other hand I (and many like me who post here) am a liberal Democrat in the finest sense.
Liberal in the sense of 1st amendment rights, liberal in the sense of abortion rights and liberal in the sense of gun-rights.

It's the right way to be.

[beevul]

35. I wish I could shake your hand, RoeBear!!

"On the other hand I (and many like me who post here) am a liberal Democrat in the finest sense. Liberal in the sense of 1st amendment rights, liberal in the sense of abortion rights and liberal in the sense of gun-rights."

"It's the right way to be."-RoeBear

Well spoken!! I am all those things too.




You Sir, Rock. :yourock: :toast: :beer:

[RoeBear]

37. Oh gosh thanks

:hug:

[alwynsw]

39. Sorry I missed this when it was posted.

You oughta run for office. I'd move just to vote for that platform.

[Columbia]

40. You'd get my vote to!

Do it! Do it! (Preferably in California please)

:toast:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

19. And I Don't Live In Fear.....

...to the point that I feel I have to have a gun to protect me from my fellow man.

[TyroneStryker]

22. I'm glad that you feel secure.

Unfortunately, you are not as well prepared to deal with a home invasion as I am, but that is your personal choice. I hope you never have such a thing happen to you. Good luck, CO Liberal!

edit to say...I live in a crappy area. My gun comes in handy.

[alwynsw]

29. yea, you do

You gotta deal with all those yankees coming across the river for cheap(er) smokes.

[Columbia]

25. Do you wear seatbelts or have a fire extinguisher?

Those things are akin to the kind of choices people make to prepare for catastrophic happenings however remote. You make your choices and we'll make ours and as long as we don't dictate what each other feels is necessary, we'll both be happoy.

[beevul]

27. If only

that were true.

"You make your choices and we'll make ours and as long as we don't dictate what each other feels is necessary, we'll both be happy."-Columbia

Dont get me wrong, I tend to agree. It is pretty much the same thing.
Its being prepared, or choosing not to - on grounds based on ones fellings, beliefs, and experience. It just doesn't materialize in the real world of others trying to decide in growingly invasive,intrusive
and oppressive ways- whats right for you. I wish it weren't so.

With seatbelts its mandatory just about everywhere now days. I don't and won't wear them. I have reasons for that within MY feeling, beliefs and experience, and I am willing to pay the fine for doing so, as well as face the potential risks. I have pled "guilty with explanation", paid the fine and explained to a judge why I wont wear them, and he didn't blame me one bit, but was happy to collect the money all the same. Fire extinguishers...I believe theres some regulation reguarding them in watercraft beyond a certain size, and apartment buildings, but I do not know if there is anything reguarding a private residence.


Unfortunately, some forms of protection are forced on us, while the verry people doing the forcing are at the verry same time attempting to to deprive us of other forms of protection. Some folks just have an axe to grind with guns, and can't see the hand that pulled the trigger. Again, I really wish it weren't so.

Some folks don't and won't possess a gun or consider possession of a gun as being prepared and are willing to take that potential risk. I can and do respect that.

I just wonder though, how folks would feel if guns were mandatory like seat belts are.

[Columbia]

28. Daddy knows best

Unfortunately, some forms of protection are forced on us, while the verry people doing the forcing are at the verry same time attempting to to deprive us of other forms of protection. Some folks just have an axe to grind with guns, and can't see the hand that pulled the trigger. Again, I really wish it weren't so.

I agree, it's truly a sad state of affairs when we are not trusted to make our own decisions and are forced to do what the gov't thinks is best for us. The erosion of personal freedom is steady and constant with few exceptions (ex: the rising CCW states).

[CO Liberal]

41. Can You Kill Someone With a Seat Belt or a Fire Extinguisher

Sounds like another apples-and-oranges argument to me...

[beevul]

43. No more or less than you can...

defend yourself With a Seat Belt or a Fire Extinguisher. A crafty person could do iether with a seatbelt or a fire extinguisher.


Its only apples and oranges if you try to look at it outside the context of being prepared.

[RoeBear]

26. Which is contradicted by...

...your statement: "CCW Takes Away MY Right to feel safe. Now I never know whether or not the assholes I come into contact with every day are packing heat."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=32036&mesg_id=32216&page=

So which is it? Do you live in fear or not live in fear?

[beevul]

30. Do you live in fear to the point of...

prohibiting those who DO feel that they might need a gun to protect themselves or thier family from thier fellow man?

[beevul]

2. Folks are angry

about this.

"Two former trustees who voted to approve the ordinance reaffirmed their support. Former trustee Mary S. Ryan even called it her "proudest moment." But 23 of the next 25 speakers spoke against it, although fewer than half said they lived in Wilmette."

"But many of the gun advocates who spoke were far angrier with trustee Bernard Michna. Michna said he had also been the victim of a break-in when he lived in Chicago, but said he believed the board was "unanimous in that there will be no change in the handgun ordinance.""

"Brent Hansen of Wheeling pulled out a wad of money, waved it at the trustees and said, "I'm going to give all my money in my wallet to the defendant who is being abused by your ordinance.""

And certainly, they have every right to be.

[alwynsw]

3. I'm happy I don't live there

or anywhere else in Illinois for that matter. The state laws for firearms ownership are oppressive enough to keep me in another state.

[DonP]

5. He is being prosecuted for having a gun in the city limits

My friend Mary Jo, who lives in Evanston next door to Wilmette, went to the meeting.

She has always been very anti gun, under any circumstances, but went when she heard that the man had his two children in the bedroom behind him when he confronted the criminal, she wanted to hear about it first hand.

She said the Wilmette board was very arrogant and angry that anyone would question them or their regulations. She heard one of the board members tell one speaker; This is Wilmette, take that second amendment nonsense somewhere else.

I wonder if he feels the same way about the first too?

I foresee a major change in the board make up in the next election.

[alwynsw]

7. One can hope so, for the safety of the residents of Wilmette

I'll never live anywhere that denies me the right to defend my family and home with a Constitutionally allowed weapon.

[beevul]

8. I'll second that...

"I'll never live anywhere that denies me the right to defend my family and home with a Constitutionally allowed weapon."-alwynsw

I could not have said it better myself!!


:toast:

[alwynsw]

11. Damn! I feel special now!

[Columbia]

13. One more beer for that gem!

:toast:

[CO Liberal]

14. What An Interesting Name for a Pro-RKBA Person

Underlining mine.

"Gun advocates chuckled as Conceal Carry, Inc., President John Birch mocked the ban. "Anything that attracts criminals to your town and away from mine, is a good thing," Birch said. "I want to assure you I support your law. Keep your law and I request that you also ban knives, crowbars and maybe automobiles."

As someone who has been opposed to the John Birch Society for 40 years now (ever since some John Birchers caused trouble at the Democratic Party booth at the County Fair when my mother was working at it), I don't trust anyone who goes by that name. If he wasn't going for the connection, he's call himself "Jack".

[CO Liberal]

16. Yeah, Right!!!

"Two Chicago radio talk show hosts even spoke against the ban, claiming listeners identifying themselves as being from Wilmette told them overwhelmingly that they were upset by the ban and the charges filed against 54-year-old Hale DeMar."

The listeners claimed they were from Wilmette. And we all know that EVERYBODY always tells the truth and gives 100-percent factual information when they phone in to talk radio shows anonymously.....

[beevul]

17. No more or less so than..

"And we all know that EVERYBODY always tells the truth and gives 100-percent factual information when they phone in to talk radio shows anonymously....."


on the internet.

[MrBenchley]

42. Wonder how many of them

also claimed to be from Wisconsin recently....

[CO Liberal]

44. Or How Many Of Them...

...also claimed to be named "Mary Rosh".

:-)

[MrBenchley]

45. LOL!

[DonP]

20. From the man himself

This letter appeared today in both the Tribune and the Sun Times rhis morning 1/22/04.

A few points to note:

• He had a 90 pound German Shepherd
• He had an alarm system
• The police were notified by the alarm company in 3 minutes (again, it should be noted, because they had been called the night before when the criminal first broke in)
• They didn't respond until DeMar called them 10 minutes later on 911 a second time.
(This is the department run by the chief that tells us how we are all safer trusting them to protect us and out family)

In keeping with board rules I have snipped it here and there but the whole letter is worth reading.

Gun owner: I, not cops, got bad guy

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news...s-letter22.html

Headline:
Village Trustees ... Stick to Parade Schedules & Planting our Parks

From Hale DeMar, Wilmetter homeowner:

Many of us have experienced a sense of violation upon returning to our homes, only to find that someone else has been there. Someone else has trespassed in our bedrooms, looting and stealing that which is readily replaced. Many of us, still haunted by that violation, will never again have a sense of security in our own homes. Few, however, have awakened to realize that they had been violated as they slept in their beds, doors locked, as family dogs patrolled their homes. For me, the seconds until I found my children still safely tucked in their beds were horrifying. The thought that a young child may have been hurt or abducted was incomprehensible.

<snip>

What is one to do when a criminal proceeds, undeterred by a 90-pound German shepherd, an alarm system and a property ... lit up like an outdoor stadium? And now, he had my house keys and an inventory of things he'd like to call his own. Would the police patrol my dead-end street as effectively the second time as they had the first? Would my small children be unharmed the next time? Would the career criminal be satisfied with another automobile, another television or would he feel the need, once again, to climb the staircase up to the bedrooms, perhaps for a watch or a ring or a wallet, again risking little?

Would my children wake to find a masked figure, clad in black, in their bedroom doorway, a vision that might haunt them for years? Would the police come again and fill out yet another report, and at what point should I feel comfortable that the 'bad guy' got everything he wanted and wouldn't return again, a third time?

<snip>

'Little did I imagine that this brazen animal was waiting in the backyard bushes as I tucked my children into bed.

Fifteen minutes after bedtime, the alarm went off. Three minutes after the alarm was triggered, the alarm company alerted the police to the situation and 10 minutes later the first police car pulled up to my home, but only after another call was made to 911, by a trembling, half-naked father.

<snip>

Until you are shocked by a piercing alarm in the middle of the night and met in your kitchen by a masked invader as your children shudder in their beds, until you confront that very real nightmare, please don't suggest that some village trustee knows better and he/she can effectively task the police to protect your family from the miscreants that this society has produced.

This career criminal had been arrested thirty times. He was wanted in Georgia and for parole violations in Minnesota. How many family homes had he violated, how many innocent lives were affected, how many police reports went into some back office file cabinet, only to become some abstract statistic? How is it that rabid animals like this are free to roam the streets, violating our homes and threatening the safety of our children?

<snip>

Hale DeMar, Wilmette

Yeah, this guy is a real gun loon that should be prosecuted for laying in wait to ambush the next poor soul that accidentally wandered into the house trying to sell subscriptions to Grit. (That's my age showing)

[alwynsw]

21. Completely OT here

I liked Grit. (here comes the bragging) My photo was once on the front page, sometime in 1964 I think.

[Logansquare]

38. I do have one question that I didn't see addressed

If someone stole your house keys during a burglary, wouldn't you have the locks changed? I was mystified as to why he didn't do this.

[slackmaster]

46. The two break-ins happened about 24 hours apart

"...Billings had allegedly broken into the DeMar home, at 35 Linden Av., in Wilmette, for the second time in two nights....

Do your work schedule and other factors in your life provide enough flexibility to drop everything and spend a half-day waiting for a locksmith to show up and change all of your doorlocks the very next day after you have had your house broken into? Maybe Mr. DeMar didn't have that option.