Elderly Woman Shoots 12-Year-Old Boy ...

[spin]

Boy Is Charged With Crime, Woman Is Not
Sep 29, 2010 10:56 am US/Central

CHICAGO (CBS) ―

A shooting on the city's Southeast Side has people telling two entirely different stories.

Neighbors said an elderly woman was fed up with constant harassment from a 12-year-old boy, so she took a gun and shot the child after he and his friends threw bricks into her home.

Now, the boy is charged with a crime, while the 68-year-old woman is not.

The boy who was shot, along with another boy, 13, are cited in juvenile delinquency petitions with one count each of misdemeanor aggravated assault to a senior citizen, according to police.

The woman, identified by neighbors as Margaret Matthews, was released from police custody without being charged, on the grounds that she acted in self defense, police said.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/elderly.woman.shoots.2.1936778.html

12-year-old shot by angry elderly neighbor
?w=300&h=200

Neighbors said an elderly woman was fed up with constant harassment from a 12-year-old boy, so she took a gun and shot the child in the arm after he and his friends threw bricks into her home.

***snip***

The 12-year-old boy and others apparently had thrown bricks at the woman’s house. The woman then chased the boys and fired shots after the children would not put the bricks down, a police source said.

Each child had a brick in their hands, but the boy who was shot in the arm is believed to have been the only one who succeeded in breaking a window at the residence, police said.

***snip***

Residents say a group of boys had been harassing the woman for months. “They lit her barbecue grill on fire last summer. They destroyed her property,” said Tenola McCoy. “She was very emotional; she was an emotional wreck.”

“These boys have been harassing (the woman) for almost a year. It’s bad. You get sick of this,” said Freddie Thompson, who lives next door to the woman.

Thompson and McCoy both say they would have done the same thing. “If someone was breaking into my home, I’d do the same thing. You gotta do what you gotta do,” said Thompson. “I’m very proud of what she done because she protected herself,’ said McCoy. “I pray to God that they learn a lesson from this and don’t target other elderly people.”
http://wbbm.cbslocal.com/2010/09/28/12-year-old-shot-by-angry-elderly-neighbor/

Woman who shot 12-year-old won't face charges, but boy will

Police say no charges will be filed against a 68-year-old woman who shot a 12-year-old boy after he and a 13-year-old friend broke the windows of her South Shore neighborhood home, then shouted obscenities and threw bricks at her.

***snip***

The woman is a widow, works two jobs and lived in the same home for nearly 30 years.

***snip***

Neighbors said the boy was the ringleader of a group of kids, and had been holding his own little reign of terror on the block – especially targeting Matthews.

“I call him the little bad boy,” said another neighbor, Hilda Brunt.

***snip***

But the boy’s own family has a completely different story.

“He and his friend were walking down the street, and they saw a window broken at a woman’s house, and as they passed by, they said she came out shooting,” said the boy’s grandmother, Donna Virges.
http://wbbm.cbslocal.com/2010/09/28/12-year-old-shot-by-angry-elderly-neighbor/

[Bold Lib]

1. Sounds like one very messed up kid. He is fast on his way to being

a career criminal of violent crime. Maybe this will be a wake up call for him but I doubt it. What is interesting is how the entire neighborhood has had incidents with that kid and the kids family . . . well, we've all heard it, over and over.

[Katya Mullethov]

2. Dead

What value a life ?

[baldguy]

4. For the old lady, his life is worth one broken window.

Depending on the size, about $2/sq ft at the local hardware store.

[slackmaster]

5. And that POOR DEAD KID is now facing criminal charges!

How many indignities must the young man suffer?

Where is the justice?

[stray cat]

13. What dead kid are you talking about?

[slackmaster]

21. The same dead kid that baldguy is talking about

;-)

[baldguy]

29. Only morons don't understand that firing a gun is using deadly force.

The old lady wanted to kill the kid. Because somehow her $2 window was broken. (And which nobody - as far as I can see - has connected to the kid in any way.)

The fact the the kid is still alive has nothing to do with the old lady's intent. She made the determination, all by herself, full of prejudice, without any evidence or any immediate danger to her from her victim, that the kid's life should be forfeit. For a $2 window.

If he hadn't happened to be walking by, would she have gone hunting for him? Is that really how you want our society to be?

Situations like this are exactly why laws are enacted - properly - against general gun ownership.

[X_Digger]

30. I think your knee must have struck your monitor when it jerked..

.. cause you certainly didn't finish reading the story.

Little shit breaks windows with bricks. Cops come. Shits run away. Cops leave. Shits come back, start chucking bricks.

[slackmaster]

31. If the police believed she had shot the boy out of anger, they would have arrested her for murder

:hi:

[spin]

46. Chicago police don't arrest the woman for using a firearm????

Chicago is the most predominate anti-gun city in the country today. Sounds to me that the locals were totally fed up with this little asshole.

[slackmaster]

48. She was arrested, briefly detained, and released without being charged

Presumably without her weapon.

[PavePusher]

52. Throwing bricks is not deadly force?

Please stand against this wall. Don't flinch now....

[Kolesar]

93. Sick...eom

[PavePusher]

94. I merely offer the poster the opportunity to remedy obvious ignorance.

Education is not an illness of body or of mind. ;-)

[pipoman]

56. You must really like the fuckers who

bullied the gay kid recently until he committed suicide, huh?

This woman had been TERRORIZED for over a year by this idiot. Do you always side with terrorist monsters, or only when their victims finally fight back?

[Euromutt]

73. Similarly, only morons don't understand that a thrown brick also constitutes deadly force

If you happen to be standing on the other side of that $2 window when a 40₵ brick comes sailing through it, you're at risk of some major blunt trauma, and very possibly lacerations from the shattered glass.

[Remmah2]

6. Apparently the harassment was an on going occurance.

Where were the parents on previous occurances?

What efforts did the police make after the previous occurances?

Actions have consequences, in the previous attacks the elderly woman did nothing and no one came to her assistance. Proabaly not a good idea to piss off old ladies during hot flashes.

[slackmaster]

8. I'm going to take a wild guess here...

I'll bet that boy doesn't even know who his father is.

[jdlh8894]

15. Would LOVE to reply!

But can't. Something about mass confusion?

[baldguy]

16. So his life is worthless?

[Glassunion]

19. So the woman's life is worthless?

"she acted in self defense, police said."
"Neighbors said the boy was the ringleader of a group of kids, and had been holding his own little reign of terror on the block – especially targeting Matthews."
"McCoy said the boy had been breaking windows, breaking items on Matthews' shed house, and setting her garbage on fire."
"I would say they were bullying her," added neighbor Frenchie Johnson. "She was an older lady. She stayed there by herself. They know that. And she's one of the ladies that, she stands up for herself."
"I think she gave them as much warning as I think she could."
"Still, the incident struck a nerve with some, as a desk officer at the South Chicago police district where the shooting happened said at about 11 p.m. Tuesday, he fielded a call from a concerned citizen who does not know Matthews.
The woman caller wanted to let police know that if needed, she would raise bail money for the woman involved because she "should not go to jail," the officer said.
The caller explained she had also been "terrorized" in a similar way, she "knows what she feels like," and the woman "did the right thing," according to the officer"
"They lit her barbecue grill on fire last summer."

So it's ok to set a fire on someone's property, throw a deadly weapon(brick) into her house?

[slackmaster]

22. You mean the dead kid who isn't dead, or his deadbeat dad who may or may not be dead?

I'm getting confused.

[Remmah2]

25. Is there a difference between breaking a window w/a brick or bullet?

Had young brickmonger busted the ladies window with a Glock instead of a rock we'd be hearing a grand stand audience singing the praises of the availability of handguns on the street. But noooo.... not one uttered word about concealed brick control.

[slackmaster]

27. Legally there is no difference - Both are acts of trespassing, both involve projecting deadly force

Both can lawfully be responded to with deadly force, if a person inside of the building feels reasonably that he or she is facing a threat of serious injury or death.

[one-eyed fat man]

32. YES

"There are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -- Ambrose Gwinett Bierce

He didn't die, but dollar to a donut the little miscreant dies committing a holdup, or or his story will be like this!

Maybe not, it does not appear his momma gives a shit.

[one-eyed fat man]

83. Don't start..............

From what his mother remembers about that party he lucky he doesn't bark.

[stray cat]

12. Throwing bricks is assault with a deadly weapon if there is someone inside

[Deep13]

17. That's really not the point.

This was a constant campaign of harassment. The brick throwing make this a home invasion that could put someone in fear for her life. I'm not saying whether or not this was legally justified or not. Nevertheless, the feeling of having no safety and no freedom in ones own home creates a powerful fear and panic in a person. It invokes the fight-or-flight dilemma and if she is already home, there is no place to go. The only response is to fight and for an old woman there are not too many alternatives to firearms. As a statement of phsychological fact, people can only be pushed so far. This kid asked for it.

[PavePusher]

51. Thrown bricks can kill.

I hope this is not news to you.

[hendo]

77. I'm not sure how you can find a window for that cheap

I myself want at least a double pane window.

[stray cat]

14. Who died?

[Bold Lib]

18. Nobody, The poster obviously did not read the article and as such is not worth responding to.

If (s)he had then maybe they'd realize what a little criminal the old lady was having to deal with.

[slackmaster]

23. I think Katya Mullethov's response of "Dead" was a continuation of the subject of reply #1

As in that's where the kid is headed.

Mmmmmmmkay?

[Katya Mullethov]

75. There are many posters here that require no response

They scalp themselves .

[baldguy]

3. 21st century Chicago, and some people want to turn it into the wild west.

[jdlh8894]

7. Guess you have never been hit by a brick.

Or had someone attack your home and/or family members that are there?

[Glassunion]

10. Not to mention set fire to your property... nt

[SteveM]

9. Uh, excuse me, Chicago already has a crime legacy: Capone, et al. nt

[Callisto32]

26. It's also the gun control Mecca.

Antis can't help but to worship there...

[Glassunion]

11. It would be an improvement over what they have there now.

[oneshooter]

42. The "Wild West" was safer than Chicago has been for 30 years. n/t

[divideandconquer]

67. But nearby gun friendly Gary Indiana is worse than Chicago for murder

Gun friendly Richmond Virginia worse than Washington D.C. and gun crazed New Orleans the worst, but then don't let facts get in the way of your truthiness!
<]http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/06/2006_murder_rate_tops_in_natio.html>

[safeinOhio]

71. Very good article, thanks

Most murders/population are in NO and Gary. Yet all we hear is about Chicago. Bring up facts and numbers and it's crickets around here from the hate Chicago folks. Hell, Chicago didn't even make the top 10.:wtf:

[slackmaster]

80. Yes, poverty rates are usually positively correlated with all types of crime

Gun law, not so much unless you insist on cherry-picking through old data.

[divideandconquer]

84. That's why India has a lower murder rate than USA?

:crazy: <http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>

[Glassunion]

91. Do they?

where does that site get the info for the muder data in India?

[SteveM]

97. I believe India now has a strong movement in favor of civilians arming themselves.

[divideandconquer]

105. I believe there's life on Mars and Europa

:think:

[PavePusher]

54. It has been the "wild west" for some time due to the actions of criminals.

Perhaps it is time to let the Citizens start shooting back at the goblins and see if the equation changes, eh?

[merqz]

107. You mean the mythological Wild West?

The one that actually had a much LOWER homicide rate than present day Chicago?

Do you get all your perceptions of reality from Hollywood?

[Bold Lib]

20. Spin, it is a real shame that we have people responding to

and un recommending this post based only on the headline and not the content of the articles. I was a bit shocked at the title also and then actually read one of the articles you linked to.

By informing myself of how this "child" was terrorizing the ENTIRE neighborhood I quickly realized that the old lady probably did the last thing she could with this hoodlum. The cops were called, kids run away. Cops leave, kids come back and escalate their attacks. I'm glad the police realize who the real criminal is in this case. What's more is that this particular hoodlum has a history of arson as well.

I've read of similar situations as this in the U.K. The difference there is the home owner is arrested and the kids are left to ransack the home.

[slackmaster]

24. There's actually a very active thread in GD about this story

Lots of people there have responded without reading the article too.

[RamboLiberal]

33. It's now been moved here to Guns

I was kind of torn where to post but I thought there was more to this one than just using a gun in self-defense.

[slackmaster]

34. If she'd hit him with a baseball bat, would it have ended up in the Sports forum?

Along with all of the Michael Vick threads?

[spin]

35. It was interesting to note that your post in GD ...

garnered far more Recs than mine which started in the Gudgeon.

This situation is complicated and interesting. I find myself torn on which side to agree with. I am very sympathetic to the lady, but initially her shooting at the children sounded extreme. A later story reported that the children ere throwing rocks at her when she came out of her house onto her porch. http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-chicago/report-elderly-woman-shoots-12-year-old-boy-during-rock-throwing-incident

Still, I would be very hesitant to shoot at a 12 year old kid unless they were attacking me with a lethal weapon and I had no other choice, such as leaving the porch and going back inside to call the police once more.

I was surprised with how many people agree with the lady. I thought the story would attract a lot more anti-gun posts.

[RamboLiberal]

36. Well I think in this case a lot here could identify with elderly woman

and how a failure of police and parents put her in this situation where she felt she had no other recourse. The fact that this kid & his bunch of friends continually harassed this woman and committed potentially lethal crimes against her without someone putting a stop to it.

[slackmaster]

38. I think people understand that a 68-year-old woman's perception of threat level...

...would differ from that of someone like me - 200 pounds, male, age 52, in decent health.

I would not have grabbed a firearm in that situation. I'm thinking I would probably have donned a bicycle rider's helmet and a pair of safety goggles, fired up my Echo weed wacker and run at the assailants with that so as to scare the crap out of them. Or maybe the Louisville Slugger that I keep by the door. Or maybe a sword. But no gun.

[Bold Lib]

41. I hear what you're saying. I too would not have come out with a gun in hand BUT

it is not unheard of for a 12 year old, especially one with this reputation, to get ahold of a firearm. I most definitely would have hand a firearm on my person while dealing with this little terrorist.

[spin]

44. I'm sitting here laughing at your description ...

I can see you with your helmet on the safety glasses and the weed wacker running and yelling at the top of your voice.

If I was a 12 year old, I would piss my pants.

[slackmaster]

47. I do own a chainsaw, but it's electric

:hi:

[jdlh8894]

40. How would you know

that he is 12? No facial hair? Not close enough to see.6 foot tall? Could be 60. Make a split second decision on that.

[spin]

43. In this case, since the kid had been bothering the lady ...

for a long period of time, she would have know he was a preteen.

[benEzra]

53. Well, if you're 68, a brick to the head could easily be fatal.

Heck, a brick to the hip could ultimately be fatal, just slower. I don't know the circumstances, but I could see how it could be justifiable depending on how it played out, and the fact that the police didn't charge her but did charge her attackers suggests that it was, in fact, more of an attack than the initial media report may have let on.

[Glassunion]

63. At any age a brick to the head could be fatal.

Hell almost anything if moving fast enough at your head could be fatal.

[spin]

28. The only person who appears to be making excuses for the kid ...

is his grandmother.

That's not surprising.

I should point out that I am glad the boy wasn't serious hurt. However, this many not be the end of the story. He may eventually come back to make the woman's life miserable again.

I can only hope that he learned his lesson.

[Glassunion]

37. Reminds me of something my father told me.

Never pick a fight with an old person. If they are too old to fight you... They will just kill you. ;)

[slackmaster]

39. There's strong and then there's old person strong

You don't mess with old people, ever.

[spin]

45. I'm reaching that point ...

I'm going on 65, I need one hip replaced and I have fairly severe degenerative disk disease.

I finally bought myself a shotgun for self defense. A 12 gauge coach gun.

[divideandconquer]

49. Some day the kid will have his own 2nd amendment remedy

Yeah, he go down to the gun show pick out a fine weapon and he'll just do the "old monkey see, monkey do". Violence begets violence, it's the American way.

[slackmaster]

50. IMO he's not likely to live long enough

At least as a free person.

[PavePusher]

55. That has no legitimacy under the Second Amendment, as you know very well.

You realy should retract that asinine statement.

[divideandconquer]

57. The 2nd amendment as misinterpreted by the Extreme court puts guns in the hands of anyone

Gun pushers will even put guns in the hands of those on terror watch lists. These people can't fly on planes or buy a car but the NRA fights to get them a gun. This punk will soon be armed with firearms and you gunguys will fight for his right to have the best gun possible.

[PavePusher]

58. Please post the comment where anyone advocates arming people to enable criminal activity.

I fucking dare you.

[divideandconquer]

59. The teabaggers saying they will use a 2nd amendment remedy against our elected government!

Is that good enough for you?

Here's the NRA fighting for criminals gun rights<http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/may99/051099a.htm>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The NRA likes to talk tough when it comes to criminals. But just last month, the NRA spent over $3.7 million to try to pass a referendum in Missouri, Proposition B, which would have allowed almost anyone, even convicted criminals with misdemeanor records, to carry a concealed weapon almost anywhere in the state. The referendum would have even permitted people convicted of stalking and child molestation the ability to carry a hidden handgun into bars, stadiums, parks, school yards and other public places. Fortunately, Missouri voters rejected Proposition B the NRA’s intense lobbying effort to put more guns on our streets."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rrneck]

61. I don't understand your post.

"The referendum would have even permitted people convicted of stalking and child molestation the ability to carry a hidden handgun into bars, stadiums, parks, school yards and other public places."

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5660000067.htm
Child molestation, first degree, penalties.

566.067. 1. A person commits the crime of child molestation in the first degree if he or she subjects another person who is less than fourteen years of age to sexual contact.

2. Child molestation in the first degree is a class B felony unless:

(1) The actor has previously been convicted of an offense under this chapter or in the course thereof the actor inflicts serious physical injury, displays a deadly weapon or deadly instrument in a threatening manner, or the offense is committed as part of a ritual or ceremony, in which case the crime is a class A felony; or

(2) The victim is a child less than twelve years of age and:

(a) The actor has previously been convicted of an offense under this chapter; or

(b) In the course thereof the actor inflicts serious physical injury, displays a deadly weapon or deadly instrument in a threatening manner, or if the offense is committed as part of a ritual or ceremony, in which case, the crime is a class A felony and such person shall serve his or her term of imprisonment without eligibility for probation or parole.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000070.HTM
Possession of firearm unlawful for certain persons--penalty.

571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

(1) Such person has been convicted of a felony under the laws of this state, or of a crime under the laws of any state or of the United States which, if committed within this state, would be a felony; or

(2) Such person is a fugitive from justice, is habitually in an intoxicated or drugged condition, or is currently adjudged mentally incompetent.

2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony.

It looks like child molestation is a felony in Missouri, thus making it illegal for anyone convicted of such to own a firearm.

Do you have a link to the text of Missouri Proposition B? When I looked for it on Google it only mentions something about pets and puppy mills. I also looked at the NRA website and there were no documents referencing any Proposition B in Missouri. What am I missing?

[Glassunion]

62. To answer your question: "What am I missing"

Proposition B.

Maybe he meant Preparation H?

[rrneck]

64. No doubt.

Considering the probable point of origin of most of his stuff, I bet he buys it by the case.

[friendly_iconoclast]

87. Wake up and smell the decaf. There already ARE more guns on the streets. +/- 40% more in 10 years

And despite your spittle-flecked posts, the crime and murder rates in the US have dropped for the third year running.

The NRA and others are succeeding at breaking your dreams of more gun control, and you don't seem to be handling it very well at all.

Adjust.

[PavePusher]

89. Mods, I object to my posts being deleted.

They were entirely factual.

[SteveM]

103. He does express blatant untruths, trying to lock threads and disrupt...

that is clear and has been clear for some time.

Probably 5CR/3RD -- he seems to have found a warm place to shit.

[Katya Mullethov]

106. LULz

Ideas . They all viral and shit .

[tortoise1956]

90. Are you a complete idiot, or just a basic moron?

Proposition B was brought up for a vote in 1999! And it had to do with allowing concealed weapons permits. ACcording to the bill language, it owuld have allowed certain misdemeanor offenses to not disqualify applicants. (Oh wow, criminals with guns! Quick, run away!)

How about the next time you want to spread propaganda, you do your freakin' homework first?

[SteveM]

101. I'm afraid you continue to express blatant untruths...

hoping to disrupt a thread or have the whole thing locked.

The moderators, so far, have been very tolerant of your punky agenda.

[friendly_iconoclast]

86. You do realize you've just acknowledged that criminals in Chicago can get guns, don't you?

This punk will soon be armed with firearms....

.

Since he's under 18, that would be illegal- and doubleplus illegal in Chicago. And here you just told us that the crime rate

wasn't all that bad in Chicago.


Explain to us again why non-criminal Chicagoans shouldn't have guns. Take your time....

[SteveM]

100. Talk about punks: what did you just do to the Fifth Amendment?

You do a lot of punking yourself. As you know VERY WELL, no one here will "fight for his <12-yr-old-punk> to have the best gun possible." So you continue to pump untruths; that is verifiable.

Is that all you have? Punking? I'm afraid there are turdy-nerdys who already are better at it than you.

[friendly_iconoclast]

85. By your standards, Home Depot and Lowes are responsible for the brick throwing.

Easy access to masonry emboldened this criminal, amirite?

[one-eyed fat man]

88. The violent little bastard

has been a hoodlum for quite some time. His parents are apparently powerless to stop him. He has been terrorizing the neighborhood and the one old woman in particular. The police have responded repeatedly but been powerless to intervene.

I am sure his self-esteem has been shattered. He is just a poor at risk youth. It's not his fault, he's a victim of society, anymore lame excuses you have to justify his despicable and criminal behavior? There is no way the cretin does not know his behavior is wrong. He doesn't care. If he's not killed committing a holdup he far more likely to be sentenced to life without parole than he is to finish high school.

Why are you defending the little miscreant? He knows there's not a damn thing the justice system can do to him even if rapes the woman and murders her in broad daylight on the mound in the middle of Wrigley Field. He is 12. Under Illinois law it is impossible to try him as an adult if he nails the doors and windows shut on the poor woman's house and sets it afire with her in it.

[Katya Mullethov]

108. He is in a protected caste and he knows it

The legion of useful idiots that are not dining at that particular rice bowl , but still rush to his defense simply to be " against" is most telling . The fact that he can get away with murder is a subject non grata around these parts . it is a major issue and the root cause of many of the problems pissed and moaned about on this board everyday . But it gets very little play time . It is always what can we do about everyone else , what new behavior modifying law , tax , fee , list , rule , regulation , what new thing can we do to the people with jobs AND MONEY ? After all , someone has to PAY for all of this ! lol


Nuffin , it's what the do .

[ProgressiveProfessor]

109. Not against ninjas

A colleague recently told me of an incident in the mid west where two ninjas stopped some neighborhood miscreants with a long history of intimidation and vandalism. Seems like they disarmed them and then hurt them somewhat seriously. Their firearms, with intact fingerprints were later turned into the local cop shop. There has been no vandalism in the local area since.

I can't document it, so who knows if its true or not.

[Euromutt]

92. If there's a more bliss ninny-ish platitude than "violence begets violence" I don't know what it is

You know what actually begets violence? Letting bullies have what they want, instead of standing up to them.

What happens when you give in to kidnappers' or hostage-takers' demands? You teach them that taking hostages works, and they'll do it again.
What happened when Britain and France let the Nazis take the Sudetenland? It told the Nazis that they could take the rest of Czechoslovakia without fear of intervention, and six months later, that's exactly what they did. The course of events following the "Mukden incident," which Japan seized upon as a pretext for annexing Manchuria, was pretty similar.
No amount of waffling on the part of the UN Security Council stopped the Serbs from conducting their terrain grabs and ethnic cleansing in Croatia and Bosnia; the only reason they finally came to the negotiation table willing to make concessions was because they were getting the shit kicked out of them by the rearmed Croats and Bosniaks (backed by US air power).

Bullies are cowards, and the way to make them reconsider their choices is to stand up to them, with force if necessary. They are the people who need to be taught that "violence begets violence." Appeasement does not work.

[appal_jack]

95. + 1 billion

Excellent, cogent point Euromutt.

-app

[SteveM]

99. If you defend a 12-yr-old thug, he'll become a 21-yr-old thug...

But if you quit providing political succor for sick puppies, he'll end up in jail where he may be a threat to fellow inmates, but he'll be off the street.

So, how's about keeping him locked up instead of wasting more "social programs" on him? Or do you wanna give him a chance to "monkey see, monkey do?" Violence begetting violence is more than just American. It's everywhere.

Really, don't you get tired of servicing the GOP on this issue?

[proteus_lives]

66. My dad has a coach gun.

Sawed-off, he loves it.

[spin]

68. A coach gun handles well as it is light and short ...

which makes them a good house gun.

They load quickly, but you are limited to two shots before you have to reload again.

A coach gun doesn't make a scary noise like chambering a round in a pump shotgun does. This can have drawbacks but also has some tactical advantages.

[proteus_lives]

70. It's definitely situational useful.

Light and short is right, I prefer double-barreled to pumps. Two shorts but reloading is a simpler thing.

It doesn't make a scary noise but visually I think it's more intimidating. Who would want to stare down double barrels?

Definitely needs to be combined with a pistol.

[spin]

78. I always have a handgun with me in a suspicious situation. (n/t)

[DonP]

81. Worth doing an action job on for HD

My coach gun (Stoeger 12 Ga) was really stiff when I bought it. We put a few hundred rounds through it at a local trap range and it loosened up a little bit. (BTW Shooting trap with one of those is a lot of fun, but can really be bruising)

But I finally took it apart and did an action job on it to slick it up. It is about the simplest firearm I have ever worked on.

Now it's really very easy to break and drop two more shells in.

Ejectors would be nice, but the extractor does just fine. I added a Hi Vis sight to the front end as well and a saddle that holds 5 extra Just in Case rounds.

[spin]

96. I lucked out ...

I knew that the Stoeger coach guns have that reputation. Mine opens easily. I agree that ejectors would be nice, but I can live with extractors.

I like the idea of the Hi Vis sight.

[safeinOhio]

72. You've picked a great home defense weapon

hope you never need to use it. I'm just a couple of years behind you.

I also hope you will google "cheap home security" and find easy cheap ways to lessen the need to ever have to shoot a home invader. You really want to stop them before they get in the house. You can save your retirement money from having to spend a bunch of it on blood clean up and lawyers.

I can't blame this lady one bit. I can blame the community for not helping to protect it's older residents. On my block, everyone watches out for others. An older lady was having problems with money and keeping her house. 5 of us got together on a Saturday and painted her house for her. No one asked, we just did it. 4 of the 5 were over 60 years old. Now, if some kid was messing with her, there would be a bunch of us on him in a second.

[spin]

79. I've always thought your posts on home security were important ...

and well worth reading.

I agree that it is far better to avoid an incident where the use of a firearm is needed. If your home is very secure, in most cases, the professionals will go elsewhere and the amateurs will be thwarted.

It is good to live in a neighborhood where people look out for each other. This also reduces crime.

[SteveM]

98. Looks a lot like my Stevens 311D, only with shorter barrel. nt

[proteus_lives]

65. My father said something similar.

"I'm too old for any fist-fighting bullshit. If someone threatened me or your mom, I'd just shoot the son of a bitch."

[mackerel]

69. How did it even get to the point of shooting?

The woman couldn't call the police or talk to the boys parents or talk to other neighbors?

[Euromutt]

74. Try reading the linked articles

Yeesh.

[Bold Lib]

76. This has been building for about a year. You need to read the multiple

linked articles to get all the details. This was NOT a single incident. This was a band of young teen and pre-teens that was terrorizing a whole neighborhood, and specifically this woman, for long time. And yes, cops were involved, but as is normal, there was very little they could do.

[slackmaster]

82. It was a long build-up. Try reading the linked articles.

:hi:

[SteveM]

104. He is an enabled and protected punk...

when you enable/defend punks, you nurture a nut-hustling thug who looks upon his nurturers as "suckers," and wants to get some REAL juice. You can bet the "parent" will continue to ignore or protect and defend this punk; I mean, it's just the way he rolls.

[spin]

102. UPDATE ..Daley dodges questions about South Side shooting...

Daley dodges questions about South Side shooting

CHICAGO (WLS) - Mayor Daley, who's always happy to condemn guns, doesn't want to talk about the senior who Wednesday shot the boy who was throwing bricks at her and her house.

"No, this is strictly on topic," Daley said.

WLS-AM’s Bill Cameron asked Daley at a Thursday morning news conference, but they mayor only wanted to talk about a new volunteer program.

***snip***

The elderly South Side woman defending herself with a gun is precisely why gun rights groups and the Supreme Court say Americans have a right to bear arms.