5-Year-Old Has Surgery After Gun Accident

[onehandle]

A 5-year-old underwent surgery at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital after the boy stuck a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, according to the Cheatham County Sheriff's Department.

At about 6:30 a.m. Monday, kids were playing with a gun at a home on Bryant Road, the Sheriff's Department said. The department said two brothers, ages 5 and 9, climbed into the family's master bedroom closet to get the .22-caliber gun, planning to pose with it for a photo.

"It had two shells in it. One was spent, and there was a large amount of blood leading from that room to the kitchen area and down the hallway," said Cheatham County Lt. Shannon Heflin of the Cheatham County Sheriff's Office. "The child that was holding the gun didn't know the gun was loaded and pulled the trigger, and it of course resulted to injuries to his mouth."

Investigators said the boys had shot the gun with family members in the past.

http://www.wsmv.com/news/25272600/detail.html

[Glassunion]

1. .

http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/3864/publisher_ID/30/

[slackmaster]

2. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

Parents need to be educated about the dangers of leaving firearms unsecured.

[lawodevolution]

4. Absolutely and I think they do teach gun safety in schools in virginia

But gun accidents (Especially involving children) are the bread and butter for the Brady campaign and they in fact are trying to make sure they keep getting new members (who are often people effected or affected by gun accidents)

Here is the brady campaigns position on gun safety concerning the Eddie Eagle program:
http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=2224

"But it would be wise to stop this misguided excuse for gun safety education in its tracks"
Then they go on to quote studies by groups that are unfriendly to gun ownership.

They think it is a bad idea to teach children that when they see a gun to "stop. Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult"
Gun owners have a vested interest in reducing gun accident rates which is why they support the Eddie eagle program

[ileus]

35. 12 hours just a few weeks ago.

[lawodevolution]

3. Gun accident rate graph

[safeinOhio]

10. May have something to do with

the progress we've had in medicine in the last 102 years. Just like the lower death rate from war injuries.

[Pavulon]

11. Maybe, or it is because there are less incidents involving accidental shooting

my wife works in the ER, most people she sees shot are participants in the drug war. The fact they are Black or Latino and not involved in the hysteria grooming spree shooting that makes the news means they dont count.

Not to the people that make law. Doesn't see many gunshot suicide attempts, they go straight to the morgue.

She see shitloads of people involved in DWI accidents where they were minding their own business and critically injured by a drunk. Permenantly disabled by ICP or fall off into coma and die.

Because at the root people made ad choices.

[safeinOhio]

14. The graph has nothing to do

with criminal shootings. It is "deaths from gun ACCIDENTS".
In 1902, if one accidentally shoots himself in the leg while cleaning his rifle, he may have to climb on a horse to travel 5 miles to see a doctor. No ER rooms and no ambulance. In time alone you are talking an hour from accident to medical attention. No antibiotics so a good chance of death from infections. Primitive medicine compared to 21 century care. Even in the last 10 years trauma care has advanced greatly. The same wounds that happened to Viet Nam vets killed way more soldiers than the ones in todays war.
You are talking about root causes for bad choices on social decisions. The graph is about gun safety and accidents. The root causes for those are safe handling of firearms, the safety features of firearms and gun training.
But, thanks for playing, anyway.

[benEzra]

18. Yes, because people still rode horses to the hospital in 1990.

The gun accident rate has continued to decline since the 1990's. Here's a more fine-grained graph of child gun accident fatalities, BTW:



I believe that the rate has continued to decline since 2002, but I don't have a chart handy.

FWIW, on a per-owning-household basis, owning a swimming pool is ten to one hundred times more likely to result in an accidental child fatality than owning a gun is. When I see people ten to a hundred times as concerned about accidental drownings as accidental shootings, I'll believe this is about protecting children rather than political grandstanding.

[russ1943]

41. WISQARS has data through 2007

Ben posted; "I believe that the rate has continued to decline since 2002, but I don't have a chart handy."

Actually what you, and apparently a lot of others believe, doesn’t quite align with reality. The rate of “US Fatal Accidents Involving A Firearm (Ages 0 – 14)” is higher for the most recent statistics available (2007) than it was in 2002. Number & Rate in 2002; 60 & .10 vs 65 & .11 in 2007.

The number of fatalities and the rate did decrease from 2002 to 2003 but since 2003 both the number of fatalities and the rates have increased in three of those four years.
http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

[Pavulon]

22. I know what you sell. The treatment in 1902 for a GSW to the head

or heart is the same as right now in the middle of the ER. You bleed to death on the spot. Femoral bleeds kill people too, before emt even gets there.

Now education and safety improve gun stats but you will never fix stupid.

My wife is a trauma surgeon at a large hospital in Raleigh. Lots of stupid involves alcohol, hey maybe you should ban it.

[RSillsbee]

33. You are aware that your statement is a very broad generalization right?

Patients can and have survived GSW to both the head and heart. it isn't that uncommon. Blood expanders were unheard of in 1902 as were quick clot agents or any number of trauma techniques that are considered common practice today.

[Pavulon]

34. IF you put a 357 in your mouth and pull the trigger in the OR in J Hopkins

you will still be dead before you hit the floor. You may MAY be able to survive a GSW to the heart if there is a surgical team standing by to crack your chest and repair the damage. That assumes the organ is repairable.

The VAST majority of GSW to the head is lethal. Quick clot does no work on femoral, aorta, or other major circulatory system bleeds.

My wife works in E med. some shit still kills you. Getting hit by a train or transfer truck is generally one of those things as well.

[RSillsbee]

37. Ordinarily I wouldn’t chase this rabbit

Ordinarily I wouldn’t chase this rabbit but, you’re making absolute statements that the anti rights crowd can turn back on us.

As with all traumatic injuries, lethality depends largely on location and severity of the wound. While I agree that a .357 to the brain pan at point blank range would be almost uniformly fatal most GSWs don’t involve a .357 at point blank range.

I will speculate that far more GSWs involve .22LR rounds that .357s and there are any number of anecdotal incidents of people taking rounds to the head or heart and surviving.
In fact there was a woman on Oprah the other day that had her entire face blown off with a shotgun and survived and went on to live a productive life.

Also, if severing the Femoral artery was the automatic death sentence you proclaim it to be every person on the face of the planet who had ever lost a leg would be dead.

In general I agree with most of your posts but it does us no good if you incorrectly make firearms out to be the magic death rays that the antis seem to think they are already.

[jazzhound]

38. Along these lines, I was surprised to learn of the

relatively low percentage of home intruders who perished from gunshot wounds inflicted by the inhabitants of the dwelling.

Maybe someone can refresh my memory ------ I wish I could recall the %.

[RSillsbee]

12. The lower death rate from war injuries also has to do w/ improved transportation

of casualties

[safeinOhio]

15. Same factors

apply to civilian gun accidents.

[RSillsbee]

20. No, not really

Flight for life gets called for only the most critical cases (despite what you might have seen on Trauma)In a combat zone areomedical evacuation is far more routine

[lawodevolution]

27. In the last 20 years there has been little progress in trauma medicine compared to other areas

[SteveM]

5. Increasingly, the exception rather than the rule, no?

[proteus_lives]

6. Ban 5-year-olds. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[divideandconquer]

7. Just more fun and games from the 2nd amendment folks

Maybe we could teach Russian roulette strategies in schools?

[proteus_lives]

8. Please outline your plan for outlawing accidents.

[RSillsbee]

13. I'm all for restricting the rights

of persons convicted of criminal misuse of a firearm but the OP seems to want to restrict my rights based on someone else's misdeed

[safeinOhio]

16. Because, you being a non criminal and

sane gun owner, I would guess you might consider a law that would require background checks for all private sales of handguns? Just like the ones you have to have to purchase from any store ore FFL dealer? I don't think that background check restricts any of your rights when you buy a handgun at BassPros.

[benEzra]

17. Speaking for myself, get the gun-control lobby to irrevocably drop their attempts to abuse NICS

via illegal records retention, integrating the Bush blacklists into the system, etc. and I'd certainly be open to the idea, if there were sufficient protections against hassle and privacy breach, and individual criminal penalties for abusing the system.

[RSillsbee]

19. No, I would never support such a law

Because itabsolutely will not work unless it is passed in conjunction w/ nation wide gun registration, that's the Rubicon for me. I do ,however, support the idea of background checks for sale of new weapons by FFLs

[safeinOhio]

25. Why is it important to check criminal background on

new guns and not used? I think you'll find most handguns used in gun crimes do not come from FFL dealers. It doesn't cost any more and it is constitutional.

[RSillsbee]

30. And I think you'll find

That most handguns used in crimes do not come from legal private sales. Such a requirement would IMO only inconvenience the law abiding and have a negligible effect (if any at all) on illegal sales.

I support the idea of NCIS checks on new sale against my better judgment because I can't show that the reason prohibited possessors aren'tbuying from FFLs isn't the NCIS.

[ManiacJoe]

26. Why would it require gun registration?

[RSillsbee]

31. How else would you track sales?

I own a Ruger PC 4 that I bought in a private sale some years ago, I purchased it cash on the barrel head with no paperwork. If I were to sell it today there would be no way to attach that gun to me.

[RSillsbee]

32. Half my post (above) disappeared

The full text should read

I own a Ruger PC 4 that I bought in a private sale some years ago, I purchased it cash on the barrel head with no paperwork. If I were to sell it today there would be no way to attach that gun to me, and no way to prove I didn't comply with the background check law. Without unilateral registration the law is toothless.

[Pavulon]

23. In NC a private sale requires a pistol permit or CCW permit.

basically what you just said is already the law. I have no problem with an INSTANT check.

No friend, here is how this is going to play out. There will be a federal law covering CCW, so I can drive up the east coast without becoming a felon. This will happen soon.

Idiotic laws passed by states and cities (like chicago) will be overturned.

The same laws that make my marriage work in NC (and yes it should apply to gay marriage) makes it work in MD.

The days of using gun control as a bamboozle to fix social problems are over. The KKK disliked brown vs board, the right to lifers hate roe v wade, and the idiot fringe who continue to push gun control hate heller and mcdonald (two cases mind you) no cross burning or pipe bombs ok?

[shadowrider]

24. Wouldn't be any accidents if only evil gunz waz outlawed n/t

[Pavulon]

9. Moving further towards the fringe every day you are..

you position is done. you are standing on a sandbar and the tide is rising.

The lie of gun control as a fix to a deep social problem set has been eclipsed. It was a bad idea, its time is done.

[jazzhound]

21. Better we teach kids how to debate with integrity. NT

[lawodevolution]

29. So they...

Original Message
Better we teach kids how to debate with integrity. NT
Posted by jazzhound

So they don't use anecdotes like in the OP to fake a crisis when there isn't a crisis?

[lawodevolution]

28. Did you just give away the Brady campaign plan to gain more funding

By ramping up the number of kids killed by misuse of firearms?

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. Well, ramping up *reports* of kids killed by misuse of firearms would help them.

Of course, that wouldn't help with people who understand 'tragic anecdote' =/= 'statistical trend'.

But still they try....

[Euromutt]

39. Stretches the definition of "accident," doesn't it?

I know we're talking about a 5 year-old here, but when somebody who knows what guns do (as you would if you'd been shooting, surely?) sticks the muzzle in his mouth and pulls the trigger, I don't see what makes it an "accident" when he consequently suffers injuries. If I put a paper bag over my head and dance in traffic in the center southbound lane on I-5, I wouldn't call it an "accident" if I were to get hit by a car.

[RSillsbee]

40. I would agree IF we were talking about an adult

I don't believe a 4 YO has the cognitive ability to project consequences.

[spin]

42. The bottom line ...

If you own firearms there is a lot of responsibility involved.

I have 15 and 16 year old grandsons in my home and I still lock up my firearms.