Is open carry gaining acceptance in California?

[spin]

Guns didn’t take the fun out of Hometown Fair for most
ByAndrea Ruse | October 6th, 2010 |



By the time local band Thin Ice took the stage at the Manhattan Beach Hometown Fair last Saturday, fair-goers were enjoying themselves too much to notice the two dozen people proudly carrying unloaded guns.

But that didn’t stop lead singer and longtime resident Russ Lesser from belting out his latest song, “Packin,” which he wrote especially for the event.

“Now we are not here to debate their second amendment rights,” Lesser said before the song. “However, we are here to exercise our first amendment rights of free speech to ridicule this group for incredible bad taste and stupidity.”

***snip***

“Members of SBOC were cooperative and did not cause any issues for the police at the fair,” said MBPD Police Chief Rod Uyeda. “Nor did we receive any calls from anyone asking us to check their weapons. For the most part, I think SBOC were ignored by fair goers.”

***snip***

Many attendees complained more about the couple hours of hardcore metal music played by local band Allura than they did about the guns.
http://www.easyreadernews.com/2010/10/news/manhattan-beach/guns-didnt-fun-hometown-fair-2

[slackmaster]

1. I've lived here since 1962, and in my opinion it's not gaining acceptance

It's too rare, and probably always will be.

The last time I saw a person in plain clothes openly carrying a firearm, he turned out to be an undercover San Diego PD officer working on a bust. I have to admit the sight of a guy in jeans and a T-shirt with a holstered Glock on his belt took me by surprise. It didn't frighten me at all, but I can see how some people would find that threatening.

[Glassunion]

2. Then just get concealed carry...

That's it. Problem solved.

[slackmaster]

5. We've been working on it for several years

Sooner or later it will happen, I think.

[Glassunion]

8. Ha!

Sorry... That just slipped out... As much as I hope that CA does go to shall issue, I shall not hold my breath...

Hey! We should all start a pool as to who will go Shall-Issue next...

[slackmaster]

16. It may require incorporation of 2A at the federal level, or a discrimination case of some kind

I'm keeping my optimism intact.

[Glassunion]

21. I'm an optimist too...

My cup is always half full...

Of course it tastes like shit and will probably poison me.

[PavePusher]

22. Wash that damn thing...

with soap, this time. :silly:

[SteveM]

37. Maybe pot will be legalized before concealed-carry!

[PavePusher]

3. Sorry, but peaceful, lawful exercise of a Civil Right...

should never be deemed "threatening".

[slackmaster]

4. Lawful exercise of civil rights often has consequences

In some places, you'd get in a lot of social grief for publicly saying certain things or dressing a particular way that people in the area find offensive.

People parading around with unloaded firearms is not going to win many people over to the idea of accepting OC. I wish that was not so, but I believe that's the way people are.

I'd like to see shall-issue CCW here.

[PavePusher]

7. You are missing some important distinctions.

Threatening=/=offensive(=/=civil rights...on edit)

Parading around=/=going about daily life while visibly armed

Do not let the Mrs. Grudy's frame the debate or redefine words.

[Caliman73]

19. Whether it should or not, it is.

I completely understand what you are saying and I agree. Seeing people carrying is not threatening to me, unless I see them doing something they shouldn't be. We are however, talking about an emotional reaction. I get startled when I see a spider on the wall next to me until I recognize that it is not poisonous. People have been conditioned to be afraid of guns. They should not be but they are. Slackmaster, from his history of posting, was most definitely not saying that guns are threatening, just that he, like me, understands that the general public will feel threatened by the sight of a gun not in the possession of a uniformed officer. It is a product of conditioning.

[slackmaster]

20. Funny how just about any kind of uniform makes people think it's OK for you to carry a gun

Any kind of uniform at all, unless it includes white shoes.

[Caliman73]

27. It's a behaviorist's dream.

Conditioning at its finest.

[slackmaster]

32. I have a degree in Psychology. Haven't used it professionally, but I did learn a lot.

People are so much like pigeons in cages sometimes.

[spin]

6. Living in Florida where open carry is illegal ...

I can remember only one time when I saw a person carrying openly.

My wife and I were at a grocery store stocking up on essentials such as beer as a hurricane was predicted to strike Tampa Bay.

Everybody was in panic mode and people were running around filling their grocery carts with frozen goods which makes no sense as the power usually goes out in a hurricane. All the water and toilet paper were gone, but strangely the aisle with canned goods had plenty of choices left.

But I digress ...

I noticed this overweight individual in fatigues with a full sized 1911 .45 auto in a holster on his side. He was strutting around the store acting important but not buying anything. He said he was part of the Florida Militia and had been activated because of the storm.

He didn't scare me but he definitely surprised me.

I have noticed people carrying concealed who have accidentally flashed their weapon while I was watching. Most people probably would have never noticed.

[chibajoe]

9. I wish people who insist on wearing drop leg holsters would

learn how to wear them properly. It's bad enough that most of the time when you OC people already think you're an idiot, but there's no reason to confirm their suspicions by a) wearing a drop leg and b) wearing it wrong.
:eyes:

[spin]

11. I think people wear them because they look " tacticool" ..

I've never owned one because open carry is not allowed in my state and also because I am not a mall ninja.

I would rather wear a good quality belt holster and gun belt or a shoulder holster.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Same here

To me wearing those holsters if you're not a cop or soldier with a vest is being a mall ninja.

[PavePusher]

23. They are actually quite comfortable and practical.

I'll never understand how they got the Mall Ninja rep.

[Pavulon]

24. Compared to a quality IWB holster. Milt sparks stuff , it sucks

unless you are wearing kevlar with a heavy ceramic plate and its your secondary to a select fire weapon, its mall ninja to carry that way.

[PavePusher]

25. It may not look "pretty"...

but it is practical. Even without body armor.

And no IWB will ever be as comfortable as a good, form-fitting external holster.

[Pavulon]

26. To each his own..

I am a fan of quality leather products..

[RSillsbee]

29. I agree

There's just something about good gun leather

[PavePusher]

31. I don't disagree.

Quality leather holsters are a joy, no dispute.

But for straight practicality-per-dollar, I loves me some Blackhawk Serpa, especially for open carry.

[Pavulon]

14. Sig 226 ($900)..

Extra mags ($90), speer gold dot ammo ($120), Belt ($10 wal-mart) holster ($19)...

Seriously, spend the money for a quality belt and holster.

And just to poke fun, you rarely see the older wiser guys who carry Wilson or Les Baer using shitty holsters...

[RamboLiberal]

18. +1

Looks like the holster also has the mag pouch on it. CA my understanding you can't carry loaded those this guy would have to go through all kinds of gyrations to draw the gun and load it with the mag on his strong side.

As I said in another post someone with a drop leg holster not a cop or soldier with a vest screams mall ninja to this CCW holder.

You might be a Mall Ninja if…
Posted on October 5th, 2010 by alan in Snark
If your wardrobe consists entirely of 5.11 then you might be a mall ninja.

If you ever stood downrange while people were firing, you might be a mall ninja.

If you own a drop leg holster, you might be a mall ninja.

More at this link. http://snarkybytes.com/2010/10/05/you-might-be-a-mall-ninja-if/

[pipoman]

30. This could be exactly why CA should have some sort of

licensed carry. The ridiculous rig that guy has on and the way he is carrying is simply ineffective. Most firearms instructors worth their salt could/would demonstrate the ineffectiveness of this get-up promptly...and I agree about the actual danger of the mag position. I carried professionally for 15 years or so and we used to make fun of newbies who came with their Uncle Mike's holster, several times we would bet someone that they couldn't get their gun out of their holster with one hand....hilarity almost always ensued.

[damntexdem]

10. I certainly hope not.

But it's better than concealed carry.

[spin]

12. Why?

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. You're not supposed to ask why, you're supposed to take it on faith.

Belief is more important than factual accuracy for some:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x343302

[Katya Mullethov]

15. From popular music ........." For all the honest world to see"

If you hide your weapons , you are sneaky and not to be trusted . If you wear your pistols on your belt , it is an indication of your honesty and reluctance to skulk about in the shadows like a some thieving reprobate . It's all part of some sort of Lone Ranger Hollywood horse shit .

[mvccd1000]

28. Deterrent value

We've all heard the arguments that criminals will somehow be deterred by some mythical number of citizens with hidden firearms. C'mon... these guys aren't deterred by the possibility of police or the possibility of jail; why would they be deterred by the possibility of 1 in 1,000 citizens with a hidden gun?

Open carry, on the other hand, is a visible and "in your face" deterrent.

If you're a criminal who's desperate to hold up a liquor store or gas station, and you only see one unarmed clerk and maybe one (possibly) unarmed citizen inside, you might be willing to take your chances. If you see an armed citizen inside, however, you're a lot more likely to just drive on down the street to the next gas station that does not have an armed person inside.

I've always thought concealed carriers are hoping to encounter a criminal and use the chance to "surprise" him with a hidden weapon. Open carriers, on the other hand, would rather simply deter the whole situation in the first place.

The only reason I can think of to concealed carry in a place where open carry is legal is to avoid the possible stares or comments you may receive. Since this rarely happens in Arizona, there is almost no reason to carry concealed, other than convenience of your wardrobe (donning a jacket when the evening cools off or wearing protective gear while riding).

Probably why open carry is not at all uncommon in Arizona...

[RamboLiberal]

33. Or if you're a badass criminal you walk in & pop the OC first

Or if there is more than 1 criminal you get the 2nd guy to make a gun grab or otherwise take out the OC.

To me OC can also mean shoot me first.

[PavePusher]

34. Then there should be plenty of reports of it happening, right?

Except... there aren't.

[RamboLiberal]

36. I'd attibute one reason is that OC is still statistically small

And to then have that small sample being actually at the scene of a robbery.

I haven't heard of many instances of an OC stopping a robbery. I remember one or two stories I read, but beyond that point out the stories where that happened.

[mvccd1000]

35. Surely you can find one single example of that happening somewhere, right?

The only ones I can think of are the city council meeting in St. Louis (or thereabouts), but that open carrier was a security guard in a uniform.

Other than that, the unfortunate "Open Carriers are Targets" argument holds about as much water as most of the anti-gun arguments stating that something "could happen." Sure - it could.... it just never actually does.