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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:29 AM
Original message
Misfire: Federal officials block import of old Army rifles ...

FAIRBANKS - Perhaps it was the easiest letter ever presented to two Alaska senators, but it was still worth signing. Sens. Mark Begich and Lisa Murkowski joined 14 of their colleagues Wednesday in a protest of the Obama administration’s decision to block the importation of some old Army rifles from South Korea.

Actually, the importation was approved last year, but the State Department reversed course.

The rifles, M1 Garands and carbines, are semi-automatic military rifles built in the United States. The South Korean government has had them warehoused for decades. But now South Korea wants to sell them back into this country. The rifles not only are collectables but also are fully functional for hunting and recreational shooting.

The State Department said the rifles could be used for illicit purposes. No kidding. So could every firearm in America. But that doesn’t automatically mean they should be banned.

***snip***

The administration’s stalling on this program only serves to confirm suspicions about the veracity of the president’s avowed support for Second Amendment rights. When questions of this nature arise, the administration’s actions say more than its leader’s words.
http://newsminer.com/view/full_story/9829844/article-Misfire--Federal-officials-block-import-of-old-Army-rifles?instance=home_opinion_editorial



Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles
By Maxim Lot Published September 01, 2010FoxNews.com

The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

***snip***

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/01/obama-administration-reverses-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/



M1 Garands and Carbines Return from South Korea
September 25th, 2009

Here’s good news for collectors of classic American military rifles. Over 100,000 M1 Garands and M1 Carbines are “returning home” from South Korea. The South Korean Defense Ministry recently announced plans to ship 86,000 Garands and 22,000 Carbines back to the United States for sale to American collectors. Originally made in the USA, these weapons were supplied by the US during the Korean and Vietnam war years.





Most of the arms have been in storage at military warehouses, only occasionally used for drills by reserve forces. While South Korea plans to send back most of its M1 Garands, it intends to retain another 640,000 carbines for reserve units. The 108,000 rifles set for return to America are collectively valued at over $108,000,000 (based on $1000.00 retail price per gun). Realistically, given the fact that CMP rack grade and service grade Garands sell for much less, we would hope many of these Korean returns would sell for quite a bit less than $1000.00. But, ultimately, supply and demand in the United States will dictate selling prices.

UPDATE: On August 12, 2010, the Korea Times reported that the U.S. Government is now opposing the return to the USA of the 108,000 Garands and Carbines. A Korean Defense Ministry source revealed that American officials were now claiming the weapons could cause accidents or “be smuggled to terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions”.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/09/m1-garands-and-carbines-return-from-south-korea/



M1 Garand



The M1 Garand (officially the United States Rifle, Caliber .30, M1) was the first semi-automatic rifle to be generally issued to the infantry of any nation. Called "The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised" by General George S. Patton, the Garand officially replaced the bolt-action M1903 Springfield as the standard service rifle of the United States Armed Forces in 1936 and was subsequently replaced by the selective fire M14 in 1957. However, the M1 continued to be used in large numbers until 1963 and to a lesser degree until 1966.

The M1 was used heavily by U.S. forces in World War II, the Korean War, and, to a limited extent, the Vietnam War. Most M1 rifles were issued to Army and Marine troops, though many thousands were also lent or provided as foreign aid to America's allies. The Garand is still used by drill teams and military honor guards. It is also widely sought by the civilian population as a hunting rifle, target rifle, and military collectible. The name "Garand" is pronounced variously as /ɡəˈrænd/ or /ˈɡærənd/. According to experts and people who knew John Garand, the weapon's designer, the latter version is preferred.<4><5> It is now available to civilians in the original .30-06 chambering, as well as in .308 Winchester.

***snip***

The M1 rifle is a gas-operated, semi-automatic, clip-fed rifle.<24> By modern standards, the M1's feeding system is archaic, relying on clips to feed ammunition, and is the principal source of criticism of the rifle. Officials in Army Ordnance circles demanded a fixed, non-protruding magazine for the new service rifle. At the time, it was believed that a detachable magazine on a general-issue service rifle would be easily lost by US soldiers (a criticism made of British soldiers and the Lee-Enfield 50 years previously), would render the weapon too susceptible to clogging from dirt and debris (a belief that proved unfounded with the adoption of the M1 Carbine), and that a protruding magazine would complicate existing manual-of-arms drills. As a result, inventor John Garand developed an "en bloc" clip system that allowed ammunition to be inserted from above, clip included, into the fixed magazine. While this design provided the requisite flush-mount magazine, the clip system increased the rifle's weight and complexity, and prevented it from being fired without a clip, such as while reloading.


An M1 Garand en bloc clip loaded with eight .30-06 Springfield rounds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand



M1 carbine



The M1 carbine (formally the United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1) is a lightweight semi-automatic carbine that became a standard firearm in the U.S. military during World War II and the Korean War, and was produced in several variants. It was widely used by U.S. and foreign military and paramilitary forces, and has also been a popular civilian firearm.

***snip***

The M1 carbine with its reduced-power .30 cartridge was not originally intended to serve as a primary weapon for combat infantrymen, nor was it comparable to more powerful assault rifles developed late in the war. Nevertheless, the carbine was soon widely issued to infantry officers, and the American paratroopers,<8> NCOs, ammunition bearers, forward artillery observers, and other frontline troops.<9> Its reputation in front-line combat was mixed. Some soldiers and Marines, especially those who were unable to use a full-size rifle as their primary weapon, preferred the carbine because of the weapon's small size and light weight.<10>

The carbine gained generally high praise from airborne troops in the early stages of the war who were issued the folding-stock M1A1, though negative reports began to surface with airborne operations in Sicily in 1943,<11> and increased during the fall and winter of 1944.<12>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine


Why does our party open itself up to criticism from the right as supporting gun bans on the eve of a election which most experts feel will take away our control of the House of Representatives and a few experts say possibly even the Senate?
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:



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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is incredibly stupid. RW gun owners have been watching this carefully for a year or so
Edited on Fri Oct-08-10 12:14 PM by old mark
while those of us on the left who like guns were hoping common sense would prevail.
It obviously did not.
This is assinine, serves absolutely no purpose at all and WILL cost us votes, possibly seats in congress - for no reason.

Fucking Democrats are their own worst enemies at times...this is one of those times.
Let the sale go through!

mark

FWIW, the M-1 rifle is an 8 shot rifle weighing around 8 pounds. I don't know of one EVER being used in a crime, ever. They are very popular with range/target shooters despice the fact that most of them cost around $800 and up, and at lower prices have to be rebuilt for accurate and reliable shooting. They were designed in 1936 or so,and are also highly sought after collectables.

Thanks a lot, you Washington assholes.
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Ryano42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are these Korean built Garands and carbines?
If they are Springfield and Winchester built they would be very collectible.

My Garand has a Springfield receiver produced Autumn 1944. I can only imagine the history that part may have seen, who knows.

Along with the M1911A1 it has a great safety the Garand's safety can actually be padlocked which I like.

I don't consider the Garand especially to be an assault rifle; it's rate of fire, 8 round clips, difficult loading and recoil keep it out of that category.

I just think these are living pieces of history that deserve to be enjoyed and just punch holes in paper targets in peace.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. US Made.. sold to them years ago. n/t
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Nope, all US made
The Garands are probably a mix of Springfield, Winchester and all the other WWII mfrs. The Carbines could be anything from Remington to Rockola.

We probably won't know until the CMP gets their hands on them, assuming that's how they "repatriate" these US Veterans.
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white cloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. PULL BACK THE CURTAIN
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Your two links have absolutely no relation to one another
Welcome to DU.

WTF are you talking about?
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Is there a point of any kind anywhere in your post?
Or are you just trying to get the old post count up a little?
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
18.  True they are all US made.
According to the State dept. the problem is that the Koreans do not have the proper paperwork.
If they are Lend-lease rifles then they can be returned to the US Army. Who will give them to the CMP.
If they are not L-L rifles then they can be sold to importers, who will import and sell in the US.

The Koreans want to make some money from these rifles. They can not provide the needed documentation of these rifles being bought from the US for the Korean Army.

It is a simple case of lack of documentation.

Ve must haf yor papers!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did previous threads about this
cover the some questions about the ownership of these guns due to possible lend-lease status?
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Straw Man Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Where to begin?
"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Don't these people do their homework? An eight-round en bloc clip is a "high-capacity magazine"? No, it's not. It's not even a magazine. It's late-19th-century technology that had its last gasp in WWII. Even the Bradys' cherished AWB defined "high-capacity" as more than 10 rounds.

And this on the eve of the mid-term elections? Way to self-destruct...
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. As typical of the Brady Bunch, Henigan is flat out LYING:
Henigan disagrees.

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.


What a dishonest sack of shit he is. Garands (or any other gun with an internal clip or magazine) can't accept a high-cap magazine -

or any external magazine at all, for that matter.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I got plenty of high cap mags
I make an extra effort to go out of my way to get the highest capacity mags for my guns because I know it pisses off the gun control crowd. Yet they go after the garands that probably can't even have a clip with more than 8 rounds. I think they are scared of the semi auto 30.06 so I know now what to buy but I'll probably get ab M14 3.08
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-10 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. With M1 Carbines in the mix or guns from Korea ...
yes, those can accept external magazines. "High-capacity" is up for interpretation. I think 15 or 20 rounds is about normal.

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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. And yet I can still walk down the street to Big 5 and buy
a Russian Mosin Negant for less than $100.00. Go figure. I guess it's that whole Washington politicians thing where they don't want us to buy American. Not that I would pay $1,000.00 for one of them anyway.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. $545 or so is the CMP price + $17 for shipping to your door.
I think that's what they were asking for Service Grade Garands last time I looked. The Carbines were about the same price, if they even have any left.

Based on my own experience (3 Garands and 2 Carbines - so far), worth every cent. Retail on them generally runs from $850 for a pretty beat up Garand or Carbine to $1,000+ for one in better condition. Of course I saw an '03 last week with a "Bubba'd" DIY sporterized stock, a cracked wrist on the stock with actual brown duct tape on it and a dark bore on sale at a local Gander Mountain for "only" $995. So maybe prices are changing, ... or probably just getting stupider.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. why would you do that when you can buy superrior arms for less
at the store today? Sorry, I just don't get it.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. 1. Historical collection purposes.
Edited on Sat Oct-09-10 05:22 PM by PavePusher
2. M-1's are still excellent for their originally intended purpose as a weapon. Fairly robust construction, accurate, powerful round. When (Patton?) proclaimed it "the finest implement of battle ever devised", he had a very good claim and wasn't just flapping his gums.

3. Good hunting weapon, for the same reasons as mentioned above.

4. Variations on the M-1 have been used for military purposes for over 70 years and no sign of stopping. I think the only other two firearms that have been used longer are the M-2 machine gun, and the 1911 pistol. Longevity is its own testimony.


P.S. I have several M-N's. Also a Yugo Mauser, an Enfield IIA and a bastardized Eddystone. Enjoy the heck out of them all. I'm still saving for an M-1 or M1A however.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Superior in what context?
You can't walk into any gun store and buy a "new" piece of history to not only own, but compete with in High Power competitions. Most competitive events around here are restricted to surplus service rifles.

For some of us, the idea of owning, holding and shooting actual history is important. It's not a rilfe "like" the ones they used. It's one of the rifles that somebody actually carried in either the European theater or the Pacific or Korea.

My late Uncle was one of the few and lucky "Jarheads" that carried a Garand in the Pacific instead of an 03A3. I had another that was a Jeep driver in Bastogne on Christmas of 1944, that wound up parking the jeep and picking up an M-1 Carbine along with a bunch of cooks for the next two weeks.

The stains on the stock from dirty hands and sweaty cheeks on the stock are something to cherish and honor for some of us.

I know, for just one example, that one of my M1 Garands was issued to the 1st Fleet Marine Force in July of 1942 where my Uncle served. It may or may not be his rifle, but it's definitely part of the same family. The stock has dings and scratches from what islands and which battles? It's a piece of history that even I can still hit the bull at 200 yards with iron sights or bring down pretty much any deer or elk in North America if I had a mind to.

There's nothing obsolete about the 30-06 cartridge either. Even the M-1 Carbine, with just a little handloading magic and some modern bullet technology, isn't that bad at up to 150 or 200 yards either.

I do have new guns that are exceedingly accurate and fun to shoot. But nothing touches me more closely than shooting with a veteran.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. True, but the Mosin–Nagant is a bolt action weapon....
while the M1 carbine and the M1 Garand are semi-auto firearms.

Some politicians love to hate semi-auto firearms.

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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. They can't block them forever but like all anti gun attempts
They'll only succeed in making these guns more popular and getting a lot more of them sold. So they think M1 garands are evil and dangerous, guess I'll be buying one when they do end up coming over. In fact, could someone post up a list of guns the Brady campaign thinks are the most dangerous so I'll know which guns to buy?
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. "could someone post up a list of guns the Brady campaign thinks are the most dangerous"
If you start with this...


And end with this...


Everything between the two would fit in their description of most dangerous...
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Hey uhhhhhhh
You uh ....gonna want the rest of that sammich ?
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Grandpa had one hanging on the wall for years. I'm ok with gun control, but don't get this at all.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Senator Tester questions State Dept rejecting sale of antique guns
Senator Jon Tester pushed the U.S. State Department to reconsider a decision denying the proposed sale of surplus firearms from South Korea to qualified buyers in the United States.

According to a news report, the State Department rejected South Korea's proposal to sell its surplus of American-made M1 Carbines and M1 Garand rifles to the U.S. over concerns that they "could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes."

Tester said that reasoning "doesn't add up."

"I count myself among many gun rights advocates who fundamentally disagree with the State Department's reasoning," Tester wrote to Clinton. "Rejecting the responsible sale of legal firearms over hypothetical concerns that they could be used for ‘illicit purposes' sets a dangerous precedent and it is contrary to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans."

http://www.kxlf.com/news/senator-tester-questions-state-dept-rejecting-sale-of-antique-guns/
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. How does the State Department even get to make that call, anyway?
Whether these rifles "might be used for illicit purposes" isn't something the State Dept. is supposed to concern itself with; that's Justice or DHS's job. The only legitimate reason State could oppose this sale is if it felt that it would be detrimental to US-South Korean relations if South Korea sold the rifles back, or that South Korea's security situation would be better served if it retained the rifles.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Jimmy Carter Cold War relic
The Neutrality Act of 1935 empowered the Secretary of State to set up an Office of Arms and Munitions Controls, with authority to register and issue export licenses to all US entities engaged in defense-related trade.

The AECA and ITAR were enacted in 1976 during the Cold War and were intended to implement unilateral arms export controls that reflected those imposed on Eastern Bloc countries by the multilateral Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls.

The State Department Office of Defense Trade Controls while setup to ostensibly control EXPORTS has also used its authority to block IMPORTS of materiel by US entities. Some of the things are listed funny. A belt filling machine for a World War One Vickers machine gun is right up there with storage batteries for submarines.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. And therin lies the absurdity of the whole thing.
Lets face it, I don't care how sophisticated your armaments are, you are really just throwing rocks. Maybe you are throwing them better but you are still throwing rocks in the long run.

We really have not advanced much!
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Give it a few years. We will have hand held phasers like on Star Trek. (n/t)
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
26. Editorial...Feds make Garand error on gun sales ...

Published: October 11, 2010 3:00 a.m

In 2009, the Obama administration approved the sale of about 850,000 M1 Garand rifles and carbines from the Republic of South Korea to gun collectors in America.

***snip***

This year, however, the State Department reversed itself and banned the sale, stating it could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes.

***snip***

The M1 rifle is large, heavy and old. The low-power carbine, although smaller and lighter, uses special hard-to-find ammunition. Both are expensive, because they are collector items, technically classified as “Curios or Relics” by the BATFE. The M1, essentially, is never used by criminals and is obsolete for combat, law enforcement or other similar applications. It was first employed by the Army in the early 1940s, almost 70 years ago.

Imagine the State Department, in the early 1940s, prohibiting the sale of archaic Custer-era (1876) single-shot Springfield trapdoor rifles, claiming they could be exploited by individuals for illicit purposes. Such a prohibition would have been equally ludicrous as the current one regarding the M1.

People seeking guns for “illicit purposes” wouldn’t even consider the M1. It is obsolete, too big, too heavy and too expensive. The State Department should reverse itself – again – and allow the Republic of South Korea to sell its surplus M1s to American gun collectors and enthusiasts.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101011/EDIT05/310119997/1147/EDIT07
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. This is Hillary's fault, not Obama's.
Damn state department...
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Sometimes I wonder if Hillary has an agenda. (n/t)
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
32. UPDATE: Hillary asked to reconsider ban ...

Congress to Clinton: Revisit Decision on M1 Rifles and M1 Carbines
Tuesday, October 12th, 2010 at 10:20 am



Charlotte, NC --(Ammoland.com)- U.S. senators and representatives from both sides of the aisle are urging Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton to revisit the State Department’s March 2010 decision disallowing the importation of M1 rifles and M1 carbines from South Korea.

In a letter to Secretary Clinton, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) and 15 other senators state that the importation disapproval “amounts to no more than a backdoor gun ban that lacks any basis or justification under current Federal law and policy” and “violates law-abiding citizens’ constitutional right, protected under the Second Amendment, to purchase these firearms for legitimate purposes such as target shooting, hunting, collecting, and self-protection.”

The senators question the department’s opinion that the rifles “could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes,” and request from Secretary Clinton “an explanation of your reasons for blocking the importation and sale of American-made rifles from South Korea.”

In a separate letter to Secretary Clinton, Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) also disagreed with the department’s opinion that importation of the rifles would constitute a public safety risk, saying “The importation of these antique rifles . . . does not pose a security threat to our nation.” Sen. Webb added, “Hundreds of thousands of these firearms are already in the United States, and substantially more advanced and powerful firearms are already available.”

***snip***

In yet another letter to Clinton, Congressman Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) and 44 other members of the House of Representatives noted that “the M1 is one of the two rifles most commonly used at the National Matches, a marksmanship competition authorized by federal law” and that “there are separate competitions dedicated to each of the two rifles” (the M1 rifle and the M1 carbine). Rep. Donnelly’s letter, like Sen. Cornyn’s, noted that NICS checks would be required on any of the rifles sold in the United States, as would be the case with any imported firearm.
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/10/12/revisit-decision-on-m1-rifles-and-m1-carbines/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ammoland+%28AmmoLand.com%29
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Maybe she didnt get the "war on guns is over" memo ?
Could happen to anybody .
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I don't know about "over" but there's definitely a cease-fire in effect (n/t)
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. That's certainly plausible
but I ain't buying it .
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I find that is is suspicious that this issue comes up just before an election ...
it obviously will not gain votes for the Democrats as most will be unaware of it. It will irritate gun owners who will read of it.

Perhaps Hillary has her own agenda? Who knows.
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