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"Shall issue" concealed carry in New Jersey???

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 11:04 AM
Original message
"Shall issue" concealed carry in New Jersey???

background ...

State senator proposes liberalizing NJ gun-carry law

A South Jersey senator has proposed a new law considerably liberalizing New Jersey's concealed-weapons-carrying laws, but the whopping fee and required proficiency demonstration will not make this new law attractive to libertarians.

Matt Friedman of The Star-Ledger (Newark) Statehouse Bureau reported yesterday on the bill, S2264, which Senator Jeff Van Drew (D-Cape May) actually introduced last Monday. It amends the current concealed-carry law (NJS 2C:58-4) to allow a person to carry a gun for reasons going far beyond the current standard. According to current law, an applicant may receive a concealed-carry permit only if he satisfies his local police chief, and then a judge, that he has a "justifiable need" to carry a handgun. Van Drew's new law, among other things, strikes that.

"You have to fear for your life, that you’re going to be killed, in essence," said Van Drew. "It’s virtually never done." He has a point: New Jersey has issued 1,595 new permits since 2007, far fewer than neighboring States.

***snip***

Van Drew's new law would require a background check, courses in gun safety and when the use of force is lawful, demonstrate proficiency in using the particular gun he proposes to carry, and pay an annual fee of $500. That fee alone is a show-stopper to many, especially because this is an annual fee, not the biennial $20 fee charged at present. Van Drew admits that the chief reason for the fee is to provide yet another source of revenue. The new law provides that of that $500 fee, $50 is to go to the issuing law-enforcement authority, another $50 to the relevant County Clerk's office, and the rest to the state General Fund.
http://www.examiner.com/essex-county-conservative-in-newark/state-senator-proposes-liberalizing-nj-gun-carry-law




Pro...?

Concealed Carry in New Jersey
Posted by:Sebastian on date Sep 29th, 2010

Every once in a while we get a bill to make New Jersey a shall issue state. They never go anywhere. One recently was introduced by State Senator Jeff Van Drew. The requirements to get the license are insane, though it is technically shall-issue. It’s a 500 dollar annual fee, requires semi-annual qualification with a gun of the type you’re carrying, and your qualification will be the same as police. It does not, as best I can tell, have any reciprocity, but New Jersey technically will issue (if it did issue) to non-residents. So it would be possible to get a permit to carry in New Jersey as a Pennsylvania resident, you’d just apply directly to the New Jersey State Police. The media is not happy with this bill:

The idea that New Jersey needs a bunch of paranoid people toting ballistic binkies in public places is ridiculous — regardless of the safeguards. And, of course, the Legislature has more pressing issues, like property tax relief, a pension Armageddon, ethics and others. When did guns jump to the top of the list?

Nothing like a little condescension to start your day! Bryan Miller isn’t happy either. Our side is also not happy because of the insane requirements. Ordinarily I’d say we should support this law as a step in the right direction, and go back and try to correct the problems later, but I think ANJRPC may be setting up a lawsuit, since they’ve been pinging members asking about whether they’ve been denied a permit unfairly. Given that, I’d be reluctant to make the law harder to challenge.
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2010/09/29/concealed-carry-in-new-jersey/



Con...

Opinion: Don’t touch gun-carry permit law

Sunday, October 10, 2010
BY LINDA E. FISHER |AND JENNY-BROOKE CONDON
The Record
Linda E. Fisher is a law professor in the Seton Hall Law School Center for Social Justice, where she heads the Civil Litigation Clinic and works with the Center’s Urban Revitalization Project to develop and promote strategies addressing urban housing issues. Jenny-Brooke Condon is law professor in the Seton Hall Law School Center for Social Justice, where she directs the Equal Justice Clinic.


Despite an endless stream of senseless and horrific gun crimes in our state, some still vehemently oppose New Jersey’s comprehensive handgun permitting scheme — and indeed any handgun regulation at all.


***snip***

Specifically, the state has wisely limited issuance of handgun carrying permits to individuals employed in security work and to other limited persons with an urgent need for self-protection.

If enacted, the proposed law would be an unfortunate and dangerous departure from this policy of limited handgun access. It would also represent a misguided break from New Jersey’s admirable commitment to gun safety, which the Legislature itself has described as “unrivaled anywhere in the nation.”

New Jersey is not alone in its long-standing concern about ready access to handguns. Alabama, California, Delaware, Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island all have similar laws that limit the granting of carry permits to individuals who can demonstrate good cause for handgun access outside of the home. These states have reason to believe that these laws make sense.

***snip***

New Jersey’s long-standing carry-permit statute is a constitutional and effective regulation that should not be second-guessed after 80 years of helping to keep New Jerseyans safe.

Because the carry-permit law limits the situations in which the presence of a gun in public can cause a sudden escalation of violence, it serves to reduce the number of accidental shootings, homicides and serious injuries that plague far too many of our communities.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/guns_101010.html
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. And hundreds of millions died
As the abrupt halt to the Earths rotation caused biblical flooding worldwide .
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-13-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Because everyone fired guns in the same direction! Newton's 3rd, and all. nt
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. New Jersey has issued fewer than 1600 licenses since 2007? Not great, people.
The only people getting them are the rich and the politically connected...and they are the only armed people other than the criminals.

Here in PA we have a shall issue law, and we have well over 25 thousand licensed persons just here in Berks County.

I hope New Jersey will join the shall issue states, but I think their current governor will not approve it, even if he is a right wing republican. I think he is the type to want maximum control over the population.
rec.
mark
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Florida has issued 29,744 concealed weapons permits so far this year ...
and has renewed 19,748 (the license is current good for 7 years).

Currently 761,706 licenses are valid and over the years that Florida has had "shall issue" concealed carry a total of 1,858,018 licenses have been issued.

During that period (from October 1, 1987 - September 30, 2010) only 168 licenses have been revoked for a crime involving the use of a firearm after the license was issued.

Source...Concealed Weapon / Firearm Summary Report
October 1, 1987 - September 30, 2010
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yeah - the "blood on the streets" didn't happen here, either...crime is down. nt
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Funny, the law prof chides for ignorance yet is hoist on her own petard..
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 01:24 PM by X_Digger
As research from the public interest group Legal Community Against Gun Violence demonstrates, many of the states with strong gun laws, including strict guidelines on who many carry handguns, also have some of the lowest gun death rates in the country.


There's ignorance, and then there's blatant spin.

If you take the cities with pop > 50,000 and compare murder rates, there are a lot of 'strict guidelines' cities- Camden, Irvington, Baltimore, Wilmington, DC, Compton, Oakland, Richmond (CA), Newark.

eta: fat fingers
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. ...whilst hating the Fourteenth Amendment.
Strange for someone working at a place called the Equal Justice Clinic
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Equal Justice for who? (n/t)
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