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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:23 PM
Original message
Entire police force in Los Ramones, Mexico quits after gunmen attack headquarters

October 27th 2010, 8:27 AM


A policeman walks among bullet-riddled patrol trucks after an attack at a police station in the town of Los Ramones. Gunmen shot more than 1,000 rounds and launched six grenades at the building.

The entire police force in a small Mexican town abruptly resigned Tuesday after its new headquarters was viciously attacked by suspected drug cartel gunmen.

All 14 police officers in Los Ramones, a rural town in northern Mexico, fled the force in terror after gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets and flung six grenades at their headquarters on Monday night.

No one was injured in the attack. Mayor Santos Salinas Garza told local media that the officers resigned because of the incident.

The gunmen’s 20-minute shooting spree destroyed six police vehicles and left the white and orange police station pocked with bullet holes, the Financial Times reported.

****snip***

Los Ramones is in the Mexican state of Nuevo Leon, which has been a war zone of turf violence between two of the country’s fiercest drug gangs, the Zetas and the Gulf cartel.

Police have blamed members of both cartels for attacks on several police stations throughout the area. Several mayors in the region have been assassinated.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/10/27/2010-10-27_entire_police_force_in_los_ramones_mexico_quits_after_gunmen_attack_headquarters.html#ixzz13anPHFt3



EDITORIALS The guns of Mexico Memo to the gun control lobby
Tuesday, October 19 2010

YOU KNOW the dusty old saying that when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns? We've just seen more proof of it.

It was in a story about Mexico printed in your friendly neighborhood Arkansas Democrat-Gazette the other day. If you've been paying attention to the news lately, you know what's going down south of the border. The violence would make Quentin Tarantino blush. Gangs and drug cartels are killing each other by the thousands down there. In the last four years alone, more than 28,000 people have been killed in Mexico's drug wars. And the violence is spilling over into this country.

The president of Mexico, Felipe Calderon, says one way to stop the violence is to keep the Mexican mafia from importing guns from the United States. Mexico's attorney general, Arturo Chavez, concurs: "Mexico is facing an unprecedented and terrible struggle. We have to fight these criminals together. Positive results have been attained, but we need to do more and move faster." And, by the way, stop the guns at the border.

Except then came this in the article: Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. It is extremely difficult for citizens to legally buy or possess pistols or rifles.

The country has just one gun store, operated by the military.
emphasis added

***snip***

The whole Mexican dilemma-from the violence rocking that nation to the absence of gun stores-proves the dusty old clichÈ, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. It's a dusty old clichÈ because it's been around so long. It's been around so long because it holds true so often.
http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law-enforcement-corrections/criminal-offenses/15211132-1.html



U.S. struggles to stop flow of guns to Mexico
Thursday, October 7, 2010

IN MEXICO CITY Efforts to stem the smuggling of weapons from the United States to Mexican drug cartels have been frustrated by bureaucratic infighting, a lack of training and the delayed delivery of a computer program to Mexico, according to U.S. and Mexican officials.

In the past four years, Mexico has submitted information about more than 74,000 guns seized south of the border that the government suspects were smuggled from the United States. But much of the data is so incomplete as to be useless and has not helped authorities bust the gunrunners who supply the Mexican mafias with their vast armories, officials said.

According to U.S. agents working here, Mexican prosecutors have not made a single major arms trafficking case.

In an address before a joint session of Congress this year, President Felipe Calderon asked the United States to reimpose a ban on the assault-style rifles favored by Mexican drug cartels and to work harder to stop weapons flowing from gun shops and shows along the southwest border into Mexico.

Obama administration officials have responded with a surge in spending to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Department of Homeland Security, and promises to curb cross-border gunrunning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100607003.html

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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't blame them one little bit.
It's one thing entirely to sign up for a fight where you may have to forfeit your life for a cause you hold dear. It's another thing entirely to sign up for a job that nobody really takes seriously except for the poor chump wearing the badge. Nobody in Mexico is really all that interested in stopping the Drug Trade. Why should they? It's big bucks and a winner for the Mexican economy.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The cartels could be stopped in a single afternoon with nothing but a few signatures..
Signatures by politicians ending the drug war.

But that won't happen, it would make too much sense for our politicians to even consider it.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Legalizing marijuana would be a good first step..
Edited on Wed Oct-27-10 04:29 PM by spin
But it may be too late.

The end of prohibition did not mean the end of organized crime.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The end of Prohibition damn sure choked organized crime's money supply a bit..
The cartels will predictably turn to other enterprises but there just isn't anything else out there with the kind of profit potential that prohibited drugs have at this time.

I suspect even the fall of the Mexican government to the cartels will not prompt our politicians to consider ending the drug war, quite frankly they are worse than any heroin or meth addict.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Continuing with the "War on Drugs" is insane ...
but as you say, our politicians are addicted to it.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Call it off and the truce is over
These "other enterprises" will be kidnapping and extortion in no certain order . And they will bring it here in grand fashion . There is too much momentum to just shut off the flow of money. One can't expect them all to open medical marijuana dispensaries and grow subsidized corn . We will join in their misery soon enough .

So much mass , so much momentum , it's like watching a Lamborghini wreck in slow motion. Hell , I got to do that just the other day in real time . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1NU6xjTSY
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. They're already engaged wholesale in kidnapping and ransom.
But as you shrink their income, you shrink their level of power. It's like organized crime after prohibition: they didn't go away, but they lost the power they had when they were the only source of booze.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Will they find that they have reached the point in their lives
where they have finally made enough money ?
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Why should they?
They can't be effective philanthropists without money. Right?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. They may turn to other things, but less revenue for them means less violence.
It's basic economics. If there's less money available to them on the black market, they can't afford to support as many people, and the gang wars get smaller. Not to mention being able to buy fewer police and politicians.

I've heard that supposedly a third of the cartels' revenue is actually marijuana smuggling. Legalizing that right now would put a good squeeze on them. Frankly, I also don't think it's unreasonable to consider a legalization and licensing scheme for the sale of cocaine. Hell, you could use the Federal Firearms License system as a model: quick instant background check when you buy your month's supply of cocaine to insure you're not flagged as an addict, potentially dangerous, or otherwise undesirable.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Great idea, we should implement the same procedure for alcohol and tobacco..
An instant background check when you buy your month's supply of alcohol and/or tobacco to insure you're not flagged as an addict, potentially dangerous, or otherwise undesirable.
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Uhh, cocaine is addictive...
I'm pretty sure most of the demand is driven by addicts. If you refuse to sell it to addicts and undesirables you've pretty much eliminated your customer base.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I agree
Police officers do not have an obligation to go get themselves killed for the safety of anyone. If you want to put your security in your own hands go buy a gun. To bad most Mexicans can't buy a gun legally.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. We have to stop mailing machine guns and grenades to the cartels... This is getting out of hand.
:sarcasm:
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. Actually, you're exactly right. We SHOULD stop doing that.
Even though our packages are from the Pentagon and addressed to the Mexican Army.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Shhhhhh. That makes for shitty CNN sound bites.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Imagine how you would feel if your entire police force resigned ...
because the police station had been shot up by the drug gangs.

I would be looking to get some firearms to protect my family and seriously considering crossing the border to get the hell out of Mexico.
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Not me.
That situation is untenable at best. When the criminals have the money, connections, and willingness to shoot up the police station it is time to move. I'd get my family out of there so fast it would make their heads spin. No way, no how, would I stick around for that kind of fun.

Even if you went around and handed every lawful citizen of that town a new M4 and a few thousand rounds of ammo it wouldn't make a difference. As long as the drug gangs have a strong profit motive and the resources to do stuff like this the average Jose six pack is pretty much doomed. You can rest assured that the gangs operating in that area have at least part of the government on their payrolls.

It would take months to form any kind of citizens defense force and by then the city would be burned to the ground.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. If this keeps happening there will be a mass exodus from Mexico ...
and I really don't see the Mexican government gaining control of the situation.

If I was living in Mexico, I would be making arrangements to leave. Legally if I could, illegally otherwise.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow. That's a lot of bullet holes.
Someone must have been pretty pissed off.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'm glad I wasn't in the building ...
no wonder they resigned.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder how that gun ban is going for them there in Mexico
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Gun bans only affect honest people not criminals. (n/t)
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. +1000
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. In support of the average Juan in Mexico...
we should all sell at least one good home-defense weapon to a Mexican citizen (non-cartel affiliated, of course).

I recommend AR's and Remmie 870's or Mossie 500's for long guns, 1911's for hand guns. Simple, yet effective.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Remember how we sent gun to England in WWII? ...

As a direct consequence of the 1920 gun control act, not only did Britain not have "a rifle in every cottage" but they had to ask American citizens to send them every type of rifle and handgun at the outbreak of WWII, so British people would have some means of defending their homes and islands against the Nazi hordes massing across the English Channel. Americans responded by sending every type of firearm to the unarmed and helpless people of Britain. No surprise, but at the end of the war the British people did not get to keep the guns, the government seized many of them back and dumped them in the sea. Such was the British government's gratitude to the American public and distrust of their own people. emphasis added
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Well, since the Mexican government couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel...
I doubt they'd be able to systematically disarm an entire nation of armed citizens.

It's getting to the "nation of armed citizens" point that is the problematical part.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. And lose a lot of money selling booze and sex ?
Our IRS has already pulled that one .


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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. I wonder if the people from Los Ramones could seek political asylum in the U.S.
or perhaps apply for entrance as refugees.

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