Report: Green Bay Online Gun Dealer Sold Inside Store Without Permit

[struggle4progress]

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WTAQ) - ... the Green Bay City Council must decide whether a local online gun dealer can sell firearms inside his store.

A recent Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms inspection found that TGSCom did so despite not having a city permit ...

TGSCom gained national attention for selling guns to ... shooters at Northern Illinois and Virginia Tech universities.

http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2010/dec/14/report-green-bay-online-gun-dealer-sold-inside-sto/

[X_Digger]

1. City bureaucracy, what are you gonna do?

Funny that you left out one sentence of the four sentence story-

The shop's owner says there's a misunderstanding with the report and he's just trying to comply.

[friendly_iconoclast]

2. I'm sure that was an accidental oversight, entirely unconnected with their agenda.

Just as I'm sure the blizzard of media accounts about guns aren't intended to be mistaken for statisticly significant

incidents by those unaware of said agenda. <sarcasm off>


Seriously- that approach doesn't work for the VPC. Why would someone think it could work here where people are malevolently well

informed about guns?

[struggle4progress]

3. Northern Illinois and Virginia Tech, what are you gonna do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_University_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

[X_Digger]

4. Honda dealers, what are you gonna do?

http://www.tbd.com/news/v/35868748/hit-and-run-driver-kills-pedestrian-1208.htm

http://www.northshoreoflongisland.com/Articles-i-2010-10-28-85890.112114-East-Northport-driver-strikes-kills-pedestrian-in-Hauppauge.html

http://www.californiainjuryblog.com/2010/08/sacramento-car-accident-pedestrian-collision-lawyer-wrongful-death-082010.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/pedestrian_killed_in_a_hitandr.html



Was there something particular about this gun dealer's behavior or actions that you find fault with?

Or were you just trying to gin up a moral panic, absent evidence of wrongdoing?

[Straw Man]

5. Is this related to the original post...

...in any way?

[struggle4progress]

7. "TGSCom gained .. attention for selling guns to .. shooters at Northern Illinois and Virginia Tech"

You can find it in the OP, but you have read all the way to the end of the three-sentence post

[Euromutt]

8. Let's have a quick (remedial) look at how gun sales work, shall we?

Despite how the news media makes it sound as if you can just buy a gun from an online dealer/distributor and have it shipped directly to you, that has actually been illegal since the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. When you order a gun from an online dealer/distributor, you pay a deposit and the the online dealer ships the firearm to a Type 01 FFL of your choice. You then have to physically go to that FFL, who checks your ID, has you fill out an ATF form 4473, contacts NICS to have a background check run on you, and if that all comes up clear, accepts the balance of the sale price (plus any transfer fee) and transfers the firearm to you.

So in a very real sense, when you "buy a gun online," what you're actually doing is buying a gun at a gun shop, but you're making sure the shop will have the gun you want in stock and reserved for you when you arrive.

In Cho's case, the Glock he purchased from The Gun Source was actually shipped (at Cho's request) to a pawn shop in Blacksburg, and he had to physically go to that pawn shop and go through the standard routine required to purchase a firearm, including the NICS check. Which he passed when he shouldn't have, because the Commonwealth of Virginia turned out to be more than a little tardy about transferring records to the FBI.

Regarding Kazmeirczak (NIU) and Sodini (Collier township health club), the article is wrong when it asserts TGSCom sold them guns. Both purchased firearm accessories from TGSCom sites, but not actual firearms. Both could just have readily acquired those items from bricks-and-mortar retailers, it would just have cost them a bit more.

[X_Digger]

9. Dude, don't harsh the moral panic with shit like FACTS!

*tsk tsk tsk*

[Straw Man]

17. Fair enough...

I didn't read past the part about the whole issue being a Green Bay city retail permit. So the irrelevence rap is really on the WTAQ reporter, not on you.

[aikoaiko]

6. Is there anything in the city permit requirements that would have prohibited the sale of those guns?

I'm very doubtful there would be? Regardless of city permits, this gun dealer was required to ship the firearms to an FFL dealer in the buyers' home states where a NICS check would have been performed.

:shrug: struggle indeed.

[Euromutt]

15. Only in the manner in which they were sold, not that they were sold

The "issue" here, as far as I can make out, is that TGS doesn't have a permit from the city of Green Bay to operate a storefront. They haven't broken any firearms laws, only a city ordinance on running a retail business. TGS would be in the same boat if they'd sold beads out of their own premises instead of shipping them to the customer.

[Euromutt]

10. So this isn't actually a violation of any firearms law

At worst, this is a violation of a city ordinance concerning operation of a physical storefront, and perhaps a zoning law. The situation would be the same if we were talking about an online retailer in, say, beads or art supplies who turned out to have sold some stuff at its physical location. But that wouldn't lend itself to quite the same level of sensationalism, would it?

[struggle4progress]

11. Same dealer armed three mass killers: Pa. gym gunman, Va. Tech shooter, Ill. student

BY Rich Schapiro
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Friday, August 7th 2009, 3:32 PM

The sex-deprived loon who killed three women at a Pittsburgh gym bought gun accessories from the same online weapons dealer that sold firearms used in two other massacres.

George Sodini, 48, bought a Glock Magloader and a Glock Factory Magazine from TGSCOM Inc. in April 2008, the company confirmed Friday ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/08/07/2009-08-07_pittsbugh.html

[friendly_iconoclast]

12. I guess you slide on that one because that was the headline. BUT....

....TGSCOM no more "armed three mass killers" than your local gas station enables drunk drivers by selling them gasoline.

Protip: It helps your argument if you don't use a logical flaw that someone already pointed out (see Euromutt's post

upthread).

[Euromutt]

13. By "armed," you mean "sold accessories to"

Neither Sodini not Kazmierczak bought firearms from TGSCOM sites; they bought accessories. You need to start reading what your sources actually say, not what you want them to say, and you need to check whether your sources' claims can actually be corroborated, because so far, two of them have told outright falsehoods.

[oneshooter]

14. If the truth doesn't fit his agenda, then a lie will do just as well. n/t

[X_Digger]

16. Is there some reason you reposted the same false facts again?

What, you want to get in your whipped bullshit without anyone responding?