My 12-year-old nephew was killed by a gun...

[cynatnite]

It was an accidental shooting. He and his friend got a hold of a hand gun. Elliot was killed by it. This happened over 20 years ago.

I can't tell you the hell everyone went through over it. There was a lot of anger. The gun belonged to his friend's father.

If it had a trigger lock, Elliot might be alive today. If the father had responsibly put the ammo away separately from the weapon, Elliot could be alive. It could also be that none of this would have mattered either. Elliot and his friend could have found a way around all of that and the accident would have happened anyway.

I spent time in the Army learning about weapons. My husband was an avid hunter before his health problems. I have a rifle at the top of the closet that my Dad gave me before he died. I have seen the damage that gun violence can do when I worked in the ER. I have shot black powder rifles and hand guns as a hobby. Friends and I used to go skeet shooting when I was stationed in Germany. This is the extent of my experience with guns.

These are my conclusions about the issue...

Taking away guns is not an option.
Arming the populace is not an option.

Common sense gun control seems to be an option, but it's too difficult to find consensus on such a devisive issue.

People will let go of their obsession with owning a gun when they realize that the 2nd amendment is not the end all and be all of being an American. I don't see that changing in the next two lifetimes...if at all.

[hedgehog]

1. I'm sorry for your trouble. Thank you for your testimony.

[madinmaryland]

2. Kicked and Recommended...

You have stated the dilemma that this country faces. Like you, I don't see any common sense prevailing after the last ten years.

[seabeyond]

3. i like this post. i dont like guns. hubby owns guns. i hear what you are saying. nt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. My idea of a safe gunlock is one that is ALWAYS there. I would design something

like.... this:



And have it get spun out of code every time a clip was inserted into the handle. Now that would be a failsafe gunlock. I'm surprised no one has come up with one yet.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. Many tries have been made to limit functionality as you describe

The problem is that so far it has been unreliable. Even the smart guns have not worked out. Firearms need to work when you need them. They also need to be operable by several people. At this point it is better to lock them up than mess with basic functionality.

[renate]

5. how tragic for everyone...

For Elliot most of all, but the suffering will go on for decades. His friend's life would never be the same. His friend's father's life would never be the same. And most of all, your family's lives would never be the same. Poor Elliot. That is so sad. :cry:

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. I am sorry for your loss.

I accept that guns are legal, but the 'well-regulated' language tells me that we should have laws limiting things like automatic weapons and extended clips for semi-autos.

Thank you for sharing.

What an unnecessary tragedy.

[TheWraith]

13. We do have laws limiting things like automatic weapons.

And we tried limiting magazine size for semi-autos. The DOJ analysis determined that there was no evidence that it reduced deaths.

[TK421]

7. Sorry to hear that news...I shot a gun twice, and I haven't even had the

desire to handle one again...meh, not that exhilarating to me. I just don't see the fascination with guns, but I know some people just love them.

[Pancho Sanza]

9. Many years ago, my friend Al "Skeets" Miller killed himself with my gun

He was staying and working at a rather remote place, taking care of the pumps in an oil field and he asked me to loan him a gun "because of the snakes". I didn't give it a thought because I was well aware the area was home to a large number of water moccasins and copperheads. I was 17 and had no experience in dealing with potentially suicidal people, that possibility just never even entered my mind but I still felt a lot of guilt for some years afterward, I felt I should have detected his depression or whatever it was that made him do it. I refused to even claim the gun after the sheriff called to tell us. Thinking hard and deep about it, I determined to work harder for gun safety, I had owned guns of my own since age 8; my dad gave me a lot of freedom and a lot of instruction, all of which stood me in good stead right up until now (I'm 68) in the years that followed, I endeavored to further firearm education, safety and sanity.

My belief is that we have more than enough laws to deal with gun problems, they simply need to be used more effectively. I don't know really what "common sense gun control" actually means, the proponents of same aren't usually very specific but I'm willing to listen. What I -do- know is that we can't "uninvent" a technology any more than we can unscramble an egg. The 2nd Amendment is terribly important to me just as are ALL the protections in the Bill of Rights and it frightens me when I see people advocating for its elimination. Slippery slope isn't just a ski run at Vail, it's a very real political danger. I don't think the desire to own a gun is an obsession, I think it's a very legitimate expression of one of our most fundamental rights.

[spin]

11. Thanks for your input...

I found your post interesting and I agree with your views.

[Pancho Sanza]

14. I appreciate that. I think if I had a magic wand and could vanish all weapons

I would wave it, but then would it also disappear sticks and stones, clubs and slings, fists and fingers? There are lots of ways to visit pain and death on others without even using a tool made of anything but skin and bones.

Why is it that "intelligently designed" humans are the only species that commits murder? (Yes, rhetorical)

Put "wry smile" here...

[one-eyed fat man]

21. They are not the only ones!

Is Murder a uniquely human activity?

Until a decade or two ago, it appeared that other animals -- including monkeys -- did not kill members of their own species, whereas humans did. But as field studies in animal behavior have become more thorough, the myth of the peaceful primate -- or non-murderous animal generally -- has largely been dispelled. Orangutans rape, for instance, and chimpanzees murder. Wolves also kill others of their own kind, as do lions, elk, and bison. In fact, nearly every animal species that has been carefully studied sooner or later reveals its penchant for lethal violence.

Field studies in Tanzania illustrate how some chimps occasionally murder other chimps for no apparent survival-related reason. Premeditated, gangland-style attacks were directed by a large group of male chimps on a smaller group of males and females that had previously broken away from the larger group. Over the course of five years, each member of the splinter group was systematically and brutally beaten. All died. Only young males initiated the attacks, which occurred only when the victims were isolated from the others. Hands, feet, and teeth were often used by the attackers, though sometimes field-workers noticed stones being deliberately thrown. The hope, of course, is that comparative studies like these will uncover the reasons behind not only chimp misdemeanors but human belligerence as well, perhaps helping to guide the future survival of the human species, which, it would seem, can no longer tolerate intraspecies aggression.

Then the newly triumphant members of the younger generation execute an atrocity. They wade into the screaming females, grabbing babies left and right. They swing the infants against the trees, smash them against the ground, bite their heads and crush their skulls. They kill and kill. When the orgy of bloodlust is over, not an infant remains. Yet the females in their sexual prime are completely unhurt.

Do primates murder or are researchers being anthopomorphic?

[Control-Z]

10. I don't recall who,

but it was suggested on a news program that gun control be re-branded/renamed. Gun "safety" was suggested as a more acceptable description.

"Common sense gun control seems to be an option, but it's too difficult to find consensus on such a devisive issue."

Gun safety might be less divisive. It would sure be more difficult to admit one does not want to make gun ownership safe.

Even after 20 years, I can imagine the pain of your nephew's tragic death must, at times, feel as fresh and horrifying as the day it happened. I'm so sorry for his parents and any siblings he may have. And I am sorry for you. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

(It's too bad they moved this. I think others who would never think to come to this forum would have appreciated it.)

[PavePusher]

12. We do have "common sense" gun control...

and quite a bit of non-sense "gun control" as well.

What are your suggestions?

[Hoopla Phil]

15. Albert Einstein on "common sense"

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."

My condolences to you on your loss but restricting my access to a firearm is not the solution.

[Atypical Liberal]

16. This is why I advocate locking up firearms.

I would hazard to say that the vast majority of people who own firearms never end up needing to use them defensively. Consequently, most people could afford to lock up their firearms with little fear of any negative consequences from the delay of being able to get to them. Even so, there are quick-access lockable solutions for firearms, including pistols and shotguns, that still allow the firearm to be locked when stored.

I believe that firearms should be locked away, and mine are. Certainly if you have children around, they should be locked up.

[badtoworse]

17. I too lost a family member to a gun related accident

My cousin (who was authorized to carry a handgun, but evidently was poorly trained) accidentally shot his brother in an incident that can only be described as incredibly stupid. It didn't make me believe that guns should be taken away from people, but it did convince me that basic gun safety is something that everyone should be taught. Unfortunately, sheer stupidity and gross negligence are things that no amount of legislation will eliminate.

[xchrom]

18. Indeed the 2nd doesn't define American-ness. Nt

[Jenoch]

19. When I was 12

I took a gun safety course. My best friend's dad was the instructor. I think everybody, all 12 year olds and all adults should take such a course. Learning how guns operate allows people to safely handle them. Both my dad and my friends dad owned a lot of guns including handguns. There were no trigger locks back then and gun safes weren't common like they are today, but we were told not to touch them and we were taught about them. Guess what? We left them alone.

My friend as well as my brother have been teaching gun safety for more than 25 years each (different towns).

[Katya Mullethov]

20. My wife was beaten into a coma with a claw hammer

But somehow managed to escape the pearl clutching obsession of jacking with the rest of the carpenters .

At this stage in the game , common sense means "just one more" . MY common sense tells ME that any more common sense measures are simply painting the ceiling rather than fixing the leaky roof .

[aikoaiko]

22. I am sorry that you experienced such a terrible tragedy.

We differ on our opinions of correct gun laws, but my condolences are sincere.