Gun Rights For Toddlers, And Pretty Much Everyone

[kpete]

01.28.11 - 10:52 AM
Gun Rights For Toddlers, And Pretty Much Everyone

by Abby Zimet


Police in Florida, where a pending bill will forbid doctors from asking patients if they have guns in their homes, are investigating the case of a five-year-old who dropped a loaded .22-caliber handgun in his pre-K class. The kid, who said he found the gun in his stepfather's car, is "both a suspect in this thing, but also a victim," police said.

Meanwhile, a host of pending state laws would allow more guns with less scrutiny in more places – including schools and day care centers. In Minnesota, a state House panel has voted to repeal the state's gun permit requirement, so that local law enforcement officials would no longer conduct background checks but rely on a national database.

Wyoming residents could carry concealed guns without state permits under a bill that has received preliminary approval in the state Senate. Wyoming would thus join Alaska, Arizona and Vermont as states that don't require citizens to have permits to carry concealed weapons.

A Nebraska lawmaker has introduced a bill that would allow teachers and other school employees to carry guns at school. And a Michigan state senator who believes "there are no places that should be gun-free" has introduced a bill scrapping "no-carry zones," thus allowing residents to carry a firearm essentially anywhere – schools, day care centers, sports arenas, hospitals, college campuses, bars and restaurants, places of worship.

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/01/28

[valerief]

1. When will guns be implanted into the hands of the unborn in the womb?

The unborn have second amendment rights, too!

:sarcasm:

[lawodevolution]

8. When will they start passing condoms out to toddlers and packing them in

The unborn womb. A fanatic who hates sex Ed could say that, it would be childish also

[valerief]

16. Guns, guns, guns, guns!

I don't get the fetish, but I'll defend to the death my right to rale against guns!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. "I'll defend to the death my right to rale against guns!"

Defend it with what?

[Glassunion]

24. * Snort *

[DonP]

21. You're funny - as in off the rails funny.

Do you rale against other inanimate objects too?

How do you feel about 5 gallon buckets and backyard pools? They kill more children than guns every year, or don't their deaths count as much because buckets have another purpose?

[petronius]

22. Funny typo there - you know that "rale" basically means 'death rattle', right?

So your post could mean a lot of things - something to amuse everyone, in fact! :)

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

3. Please show me anywhere that ANYONE has seriously suggested such a thing.

It's a particularly ridiculous and pathetic strawman argument, and it's shameful that people have nothing better to argue with than to make up insane positions to attribute to those you disagree with.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chibajoe]

7. Wouldn't that be a delicious irony, we could institute a system like Switzerland

or Israel, where everybody has to join the military and spend at least a part of their lives carrying a gun around everywhere.

The truth is that gun owners don't really care one whit about your lack of desire to own guns, and most would applaud your convictions to live your life the way you feel you need to. It's a shame we're not offered the same courtesy.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atypical Liberal]

4. Obvious straw man.

Gun Rights For Toddlers, And Pretty Much Everyone

I don't know of anyone who advocates that toddlers should have firearms. Pretty much everyone who is a law-abiding citizen should be able to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms, though.

Police in Florida, where a pending bill will forbid doctors from asking patients if they have guns in their homes, are investigating the case of a five-year-old who dropped a loaded .22-caliber handgun in his pre-K class. The kid, who said he found the gun in his stepfather's car, is "both a suspect in this thing, but also a victim," police said.

I'm not sure why the author would relate these two completely unrelated incidents in the same sentence, other than they both happened in Florida and both concern firearms.

One issue is whether Doctors should be able to ask about non-medically-related things in your home. Unless the child is suffering from lead poisoning, or hearing loss, or something that could feasibly be related to being around firearms, there is no reason for my owning of firearms to be anyone's business.

Meanwhile, a host of pending state laws would allow more guns with less scrutiny in more places – including schools and day care centers.

As it should be. If I am a responsible, law-abiding citizen, who has been vetted through a background check and found suitable to possess a concealed carry permit, then I should be trusted with that firearm virtually anywhere. If I am not a deranged danger to public while walking down main street with my concealed firearm, then I am no more of danger in a school or anywhere else.

In Minnesota, a state House panel has voted to repeal the state's gun permit requirement, so that local law enforcement officials would no longer conduct background checks but rely on a national database.

Um, the national database, otherwise known as the National Instant Check System, is a background check. The state of Minnesota simply decided nothing was gained by having the State run it's own background check system. And it costs them money to run it.

Wyoming residents could carry concealed guns without state permits under a bill that has received preliminary approval in the state Senate. Wyoming would thus join Alaska, Arizona and Vermont as states that don't require citizens to have permits to carry concealed weapons.

I don't have a problem with this. Criminals already pay no mind to the requirement to have a piece of paper before they carry a weapon. Why should I have to?

A Nebraska lawmaker has introduced a bill that would allow teachers and other school employees to carry guns at school.

Again I have no problem with this. Do you think teachers are going to suddenly turn into deranged killers the instant you put a firearm in their hands?

And a Michigan state senator who believes "there are no places that should be gun-free" has introduced a bill scrapping "no-carry zones," thus allowing residents to carry a firearm essentially anywhere – schools, day care centers, sports arenas, hospitals, college campuses, bars and restaurants, places of worship.

I have no problem with this at all. I think only high-pressure places, with high-value targets, like courthouses or legislative buildings ought to be gun-free zones. But most places that are open to the public should allow people to carry concealed firearms. If I have been vetted as a law-abiding citizen and am judged competent to walk down main street with a firearm while surrounded by hundreds of my fellow citizens, there is no reason why I should not be able to do this just about anyplace my travels might take me.

[lawodevolution]

6. "gun rights for toddlers". Sounds like a toddler wrote this

Children are not allowed to possess a firearm by law without proper supervision and no one is trying to change this. So you adults think that allowing CCW holders to carry in schools means that toddlers or children can now carry in school?

[aikoaiko]

9. geesh. talk about fear mongering in order to score political points.

No shame.

[slackmaster]

10. Auto-Unrec for giant straw man

:nuke:

[rrneck]

12. Lions and tigers and bears.

Oh my.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. Before I found this forum and actually went shooting

I was 90% pro-gun control.

Since then I'm about 55% pro-2A.

After reading the OP I slipped another 10-points to the 2A side.





If you can only make points by lying about the opposition then maybe the opposition is the side to go with.

[shadowrider]

14. New converts get to buy the first round..:)

Welcome

:toast:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. You're kind, thank-you. I wish I could share you enthusiasm but I'm heartsick

I was always told progressives were part of the "reality-based community." That we honored facts more than hysterics and fear-mongering. Science trumped religion.

But the entire OP is riddled with nonsense and made up lies about what other people say.

Granted, I've only been frequenting this forum for a few months and infrequently at that but even in that modest time everyone who has been pro-2A has advocated responsible, safe firearm handling.

And that's not just a progressive trait as my Lover Boy is of the same mindset.

But here is nothing but lies about them. Lies about friends and family.

Does the OP really think I would be so stupid to forget everything I know about these people?

Does the OP think these people would accept these lies?

That article isn't good for anybody except those who don't know anybody on the other side so they can read it to themselves in the bathroom mirror to feel smug and superior.

Stop insulting my friends and family; it won't win you any converts.

[shadowrider]

17. You will find, with very few exceptions, gun control advocates

argue from emotion, not logic and fact. There are a few who intelligently discuss the subject, but in order for that to happen, they have to understand our position. I understand theirs.

Far too many don't (nor do they care to)

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. I understand those emotions because those were/are my emotions

I shudder at the thought of lives destroyed, the pain, the terror and whatnot.

I understand. I've never had a negative encounter with an armed person but I am honestly fearful of the damage guns can bring (not the gun itself).

I'm a pacifist.

Or a coward, whichever why someone wants to judge me.

But being emotional cannot, should not, use lies and deliberate misstatements to win a point, particularly a point about a person's right to live and survive in a very difficult world.

I hope that's fair enough.

[shadowrider]

20. Fair enough. But you still gotta buy the first round..:) n/t

[lawodevolution]

23. Whenever I take a gun out of the safe, I also fear the damage that gun can do,

but it's not a phobia, it is also not an unfounded ignorant fear. I am afraid of the chemical reaction that can send a projectile out of the front end of it, that's natural. All gun owners have a certain amount of healthy fear and respect for their firearms. The anti-gun community have a fear and hatred of normal people owning guns and a phobia of the guns, and this is not healthy.

[HankyDubs]

27. argue from emotion?

Whenever I hear this, I remember that the gun lobby constantly uses emotion, rather than logic and fact. After all logic would tell you that when more guns are around, more criminals, lunatics and assassins will have guns.

The emotion they play on is fear...fear of faceless criminals, fear of the government...the constant drumbeat of fear fear and more fear.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. Logic also says there is a disconnect between laws, even guns laws, and

criminals.

The only solution would be 100% confiscation.

But you don't need logic, only a reading of the history of the War on Drugs and Prohibition, to understand that is doomed as well.

And there are plenty of instances of good people defending themselves. Not just crime statistics but in instances where someone like Rev King being guarded by armed friends because of the threats to his life.

How many times have we said, "If it changes/saves just one life the price will have been worth it."

How many families defending themselves from racists or gangsters or store owners defending their lives or women escaping abusive partners can be found.

A ban would have deprived all of them and I bet their numbers stretch into the millions.

What true progressive would make victims of millions of people to violent antagonists?

And what progressive should even try based on lies?

[Katya Mullethov]

32. You got me to thinking last night

A half dozen bottles of Tannerite reactive targets would be a good way to scrape another 30 or 40% off those numbers .
Your squeeze will be highly impressed with your acumen and good taste as well.

IM me for the sooper secret discount code .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y30cIFk5FxA

[HankyDubs]

34. progressives? in the gungeon?

"The only solution would be 100% confiscation."

That's wrong, and the gungeon knows it is wrong. I'm not looking for a 100% solution, only to take steps that bring the gun death numbers down. One solution embraced by the gungeon are laws against certain convicted felons and clinically disturbed individuals owning firearms. That's a solid part of any solution.

"How many families defending themselves from racists or gangsters or store owners defending their lives or women escaping abusive partners can be found."

Now you're proving my point. FEAR FEAR FEAR. NEVER LET UP WITH THE FEAR.

"A ban would have deprived all of them and I bet their numbers stretch into the millions."

Strawman. I'm not advocating a total ban on guns, nor is the brady campaign.

"What true progressive would make victims of millions of people to violent antagonists?"

What true progressive would make victims of millions of people to violent gun-toting antagonists?

[Katya Mullethov]

31. Our criminals all had faces

Saucer eyed startled faces , strong bones , healthy feet, and Olympic class running, waddling, and hurdling skills . I was told that the last one had a good coat of blood as well . MOL chased him back over the wire so I just asked her if it was the constant drumbeat of fear that urged her to run into the front pasture or the sound of a "dog fight " and she said it was "the sound of mauling " .

We do roll to the drumbeat of fear , here . But the idea is to project it , and avoid actually feeling it yourself . When he comes back to apologize , we will get pics and a handwritten letter of . What an accomplishment that would be too . A trophy more rare and challenging than a nigerian mullet , an apology , from the hyperentitled American creepthief .

[PavePusher]

33. Except for the fact that the freely available evidence...

does not support your claim of "logic", sure, whatever.

[RSillsbee]

29. Your tranistion to the dark side is almost complete Padawan NT

[benEzra]

25. The gun control debate is about whether to further restrict the existing right

of mentally competent adults with clean records to lawfully purchase, own, and use currently legal non-automatic, non-sound-suppressed NFA Title 1 civilian small arms under .51 caliber, plus shotguns, and to be able to obtain state-issued licenses to carry firearms for personal defense after satisfying state background check and training requirements. The gun control lobby wants to place draconian new restrictions on currently lawful gun ownership; gun owners object to those restrictions.

The gun-control debate is not about arming toddlers for kindergarten shootouts. It is not about legalizing automatic weapons/WMD's/nukes. It is not about enabling criminals. It is not about legitimizing murder.

Your side of the debate would be much more effective if you treated those who disagree with you as actual human beings, rather than as cartoon villains or media caricatures.

[YllwFvr]

26. why would a doctor ask if you have guns at home?! nt

[petronius]

28. That photo is pretty interesting - reminds me of Arbus

Does anyone know where it came from (if it's not original to the article)?