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Opinion: Gun Control Emotions vs. Gun Control Facts

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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:54 AM
Original message
Opinion: Gun Control Emotions vs. Gun Control Facts
ust 24 hours after the shooting in Tucson, politicians were calling for more gun control. And the drumbeat has continued.

--snip--

But while the emotional reaction to a mass shooting is understandable, the fact is that some of the proposals would at best only make people feel better and at worst make them less safe.

Schumer's proposal, for example, would try to pick up criminal activities included in military applications for which there are no criminal convictions. But the military has a good reason to maintain confidentiality when it interviews new recruits: It wants to get the most honest answers it can.

With Schumer's proposed change, new recruits would be more reluctant to tell the military that they'd been smoking marijuana, for example, knowing that any answers they gave could haunt them the rest of their lives, with serious consequences such as being banned for life from being able to own a gun.

--snip--

Indeed, the evidence shows that the only people inconvenienced by the Brady Act background checks for gun purchases -- which have been in place since 1994 -- are law-abiding citizens. In fact, over 99.9 percent of those purchases initially flagged as being illegal under the law were later determined to be misidentified.

--snip--

Given this, it's not surprising that no academic studies by economists or criminologists have found that the Brady Act or other state background checks have reduced violent crime.

Just as futile would be reinstituting the parts of the assault weapons ban limiting magazine size. No research by criminologists or economists has found that the either the assault weapons ban or the magazine-size restrictions reduce crime. This is not surprising, as magazines are simply small metal boxes with a spring and are thus very easy to make. Besides, someone planning to harm a large number of people can easily bring two or more loaded guns.

--snip--

Clearly, criminals don't obey gun-free zones. And, likewise, they do not respect gun bans, as was seen in the increased murder rates in Chicago and Washington, D.C., following their handgun bans. The recent 36 percent drop in murder rates in D.C. right after the Supreme Court struck down its gunlock and handgun ban laws provides even more evidence.

Supporters blame those gun ban failures on the ease of getting guns in the rest of the country. They claim that unless the ban covers the entire country, it isn't a fair test of how well a ban will work. Still, that doesn't explain why gun bans actually increase, rather than decrease, murder rates.

--snip--

Yes, mentally unstable people and violent criminals ought not to possess guns. But the new laws being offered will create more problems than solutions.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/20/opinion-gun-control-emotions-vs-gun-control-facts/
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Just 24 hours after the shooting in Tucson, politicians were calling for more gun control."
Actually, it was considerably shorter than that.

I linked to two or three Huff-N-Puff articles by the usual suspects, posted so soon after the shooting that the blood literally had not fully dried yet.

If that's not the definition of ghoulish, I'm at a loss.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ah, "facts" from John Lott, Fox News contributor!
n/t
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I see. More than enough reason to discount the content, eh?
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No accident you left off the author's name, eh?
n/t
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I post articles the way I always have. Authors name isn't required
that I can find.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Not required, but of course very telling in this instance. Though suppose Fox News has its acolytes.
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 12:20 PM by villager
n/t
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I see. Ignore the message because of the messenger n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Unless you want to start keeping an open mind on info from the Brady group?
I mean, if source is absolutely immaterial in these things...
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I see. Keep an open mind on Brady.
Tell me something they offer of value and I'll keep an open mind as I read it.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah, right. Only your sources count, Fox or otherwise.
No further questions, your honor.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Whatever
and whatnot.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Oh look, class- a double genetic fallacy!
Bravo, bravo.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. They once said that 2 + 2 = 4. Of course I don't believe them.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The Brady Campaign has been trying to convince us for years that 2 + 2 = 5...
I still find it difficult to accept this.
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Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Genetic Fallacy
^^^^^^
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. OK how about this guy
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Allow me to help you with something.
Your posts keep getting deleted because you keep resorting to insults, broad-brush smears, stereotyping, and straw-man arguments in place of actual rational argument.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. All the traits of an effective politician.
:sarcasm:
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VoteProgressive Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. Lott is a right wing nut. It hurts his credibility. I prefer.......
Gary Kleck who is liberal and an ACLU member and a Democrat. Read his pro-gun stuff.

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VoteProgressive Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. John Lott also fabricated a false identity to promote his side of the story....
Over a couple of years John Lott made hundreds of postings on the Internet, using the false identity "Mary Rosh".

Read about it.

I am pro-gun but we need to ignore this idiot.

Read Gary Kleck!
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. This is only half the story though.
Indeed, the evidence shows that the only people inconvenienced by the Brady Act background checks for gun purchases -- which have been in place since 1994 -- are law-abiding citizens. In fact, over 99.9 percent of those purchases initially flagged as being illegal under the law were later determined to be misidentified.


I think it's pretty much a given that criminals are smart enough not to go try to buy guns at a gun store. They don't bother, because they know they aren't illegible to own firearms and they know they will get caught up in the background check.

In other words, the background check works fantastically in screening criminals and insane people from buying through an FFL.

But, as the OP notes, this doesn't stop them from getting firearms.

Why?

Because private sales are pretty much completely unregulated. In most places it is trivial to open up your local Penny Saver newspaper and buy a firearm from a private citizen for cash on the barrel, no questions asked.

So long as private sales are unscreened, screening FFL sales is not going to accomplish much in terms of keeping firearms out of the hands of bad people.

I advocate an opt-out FOID system, similar to what Illinois has, but being opt-out, in that everyone who applies for a Drivers' License or state-issued ID will automatically be run through NICS and have their ID so marked if they are illegible to own firearms, unless they opt out of the process.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Sounds good to me...
I insist anyone who buys one of my firearms has a current concealed weapons permit.
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. Don't confuse
the antis with the facts...THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE FACTS! ---- that was my Jack Nicholson impression :)

yup

yup

yup


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