Having guns on campuses is a bad idea, whether they’re licensed concealed carry or not

[jpak]

http://www.uccsscribe.com/opinion/having-guns-on-campuses-is-a-bad-idea-whether-they-re-licensed-concealed-carry-or-not-1.2468096

Concealed weapons have no place on a college campus. Shortly after April 16, 2007 a group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus was formed.

This date, of course, signifies the day of the Virginia Tech massacre where 32 people were killed and several others wounded after a crazed gunman randomly opened fire on Virginia Tech students.

Clearly, then, concealed carry in educational environment "must be" the solution to preventing the guy who sings "Smooth Operator" while smearing peanut butter all himself from shooting up a college campus. I think not.

Now I'm a forthright cheerleader when it comes to owning firearms. I myself love to go into the mountains and let loose a few rounds when I have some free time; in fact I recently laid waste to my old Acer laptop computer with a .308 hunting rifle (after the many days I threatened it with violence for crashing on me during homework assignments, I did warn it after all.)

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[shadowrider]

1. Dissenting opinions from converts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x377269

[ManiacJoe]

2. At least the article was properly classified as an opinion piece.

[Porterhouse]

3. Opinions are like

well, y'all know what I mean, just some are smellier than others and jeez, this one stinks to high heaven.
:rofl:

[rl6214]

16. Glad you understand about opnions

like yours.

YUP

YUP

YUP

[damntexdem]

4. Yes, keep them off the campuses.

They don't belong here. We don't want them. And anyone bringing them onto campus needs to be arrested -- which means that we need the laws under which they can be arrested.

[Porterhouse]

5. Please show us

where states that have allowed for the LEGAL carrying of firearms on college campus has caused a problem except in your mind.
We'll wait.

[brendan120678]

6. Who is the "we" that doesn't want them?

Sure it's been 8 years since I've been in college in living in a campus dorm, but I don't know if there was a majority opinion one way or the other back then.

Also, my school had a rifle team, and a shooting range in a sub-sub-sub basement of one of the primary campus buildings. Those folks were obviously allowed to carry on campus. Why should they be allowed to, and nobody else?

In fact, even the campus security (a private company) was forbidden from carrying on campus, although most of them were retired cops and concealed carried anyways.

[Callisto32]

8. Apparenlty, some of "us" do.

Broad brush is BROOOOOOAAAD.

[Callisto32]

7. Snarky opinion pieces say what?

[jpak]

9. Guns off campus man - only campus law enforcement should carry firearms

yup

[Porterhouse]

14. Well that would be great

if I could carry a cop around while out and about on a college campus, until then show us where it has been a problem for states that allow for the legal carry of firearms on campus.

[Kolesar]

17. Carry a gun so you don't get mugged or for a coke dealer to protect his fortune?

What is the application? The coke dealer would surely be more effectual accomplishing what he needs to accomplish with a gun.

[Glassunion]

21. Here's the funny thing.

The coke dealer protecting his fortune is going to carry his gun and he will carry it on campus no matter what law is enacted.

The person who carries a gun to defend themselves will not carry their gun on campus if it is illegal.

You would only be disarming those who follow the law. Coke dealers by nature will ignore any law one would try to put in front of them. Net result... Nothing accomplished.

[Kolesar]

26. A coke dealer has a rationale to be armed

A college student has a stronger rationale to own a duo core PC

[Glassunion]

28. So you endorse laws that accomplish nothing and fail to reduce crime.

Got it... Thanks.

[one-eyed fat man]

29. Huh?

Do you honestly believe a coke dealer gives a flying fuck about any campus restriction on guns?

Or are you saying that his facilitation of illicit use of recreational drugs is an acceptable reason for him being on campus armed illegally?

[Kolesar]

43. That's not what I said, Mr. Spin

and you know it.

[one-eyed fat man]

44. What is it then?

You are perfectly willing to acquiesce to armed criminals so long as students remain disarmed as a matter of policy. You have only argued for regulations and laws directed against those who obey them.

Guns for criminals are part of the overhead, they don't care what they cost either in terms of money or possible penalty. Even with all the gun laws that exist in the UK a fortune is made in Lithuania turning Russian Biakal gas gunsinto weapons for British gangs and thugs.

Scotland Yard detectives are convinced that the eastward expansion of the EU in May 2004 has made it easier to smuggle weapons from eastern Europe to the UK, a view echoed by Jurijus Milevskis, the deputy head of the Lithuanian Criminal Police Bureau in Vilnius. Britain, he said, was the destination of choice due to the high demand for the guns and the high prices. "It seems the more guns that are sent there, the more the demand grows."

Gun ownership is widespread in Lithuania; anyone who does not have a criminal record is eligible to have a licence. According to police statistics, of the 294 murders committed in the country last year, only 11 involved a firearm, encouraging the widely held view that the greater the number of weapons in circulation, the less crime is committed. "Maybe Britain should consider changing its gun laws and legalising weapons," said Mr Milevskis.

[Glassunion]

24. Why?

They rarely protect anyone.

In 2009 the campus police had the following violent crimes occur on thier watch, on thier campuses in the US.

Murders: 35
Negligent Manslaughter: 4
Forcible Rape: 5,072
Non-Forcible Rape: 136
Robberies: 4,862
Aggrivated Assaults: 5,827

[PavePusher]

25. And what should their liability, and that of the school, be...

when they fail to prevent or stop a crime?

How much is a rape worth, in monetary damages? A theft? A murder?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. It hurts to say this but

I'm beginning to feel rape is a price many are willing to see others pay on behalf of their agenda.

[one-eyed fat man]

33. You are absolutely correct!

How many times have they said right here if confronted by a violent criminal you should just give them what they want?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

34. It's easy for them because they are dealing with other people's

bodies, lives and souls in the abstract.

It isn't abstract when its their body being violently stolen.

Women should just relax, store owners should just get new jobs and gays should just quietly accept whatever comes their way.

Well, I'm a person too and I refuse to lay still so the emotionally unsettled can feel better locked in their own littlcages.

[MicaelS]

35. You are absolutely correct...

At one of my co-workers' church, the pastor was asked if he would use a gun to stop his own wife from being raped. He said no. Needless to say, his wife was quite upset with him.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. I can't even imagine what to say to that

[MicaelS]

39. Not much you can say n/t

[PavePusher]

40. I can.

It starts with "Pack your shit..." and ends with "and GTFO".

[DonP]

10. Ah, more "because I said so" rationale

No facts, not even a lonely old anecdote to support the point of view. So sad and pathetic

We've had an outbreak of that around here recently. Must be the latest crop of self important posters that think they've actually discovered something new. My favorites are the ones that openly suggest ignoring the congress and its law making role and using executive orders to enforce their version of how things should be. Hey, wait a minute, how is that any different from what Bush and Cheney tried to pull off?

But I guess since the people that have nothing to do with the shooting sports and may have never owned or fired a gun are much better equipped to decide what's best for all of us because they "feel" it's the right thing to do and the law be damned.

Somebody needs to add this to the list, the "Because I said so!" fallacy.

[RSillsbee]

11. My favorite

is the clowns that scream "well regulated militia" like we never heard that argument before

[Porterhouse]

15. It's funnier than hell

to watch the anti's flail about. They are the best argument for our side.

[lawodevolution]

12. Post a reason based on facts and data and not just opinion.

Show us how allowing CCW holders to carry guns on campus has resulted in problems.

[Atypical Liberal]

13. Having guns on campuses is a fine idea, and here's why.

First of all, there are plenty of college campuses that DO allow concealed carry on them, and they don't have problems with firearm violence caused by CCW permit holders. This shouldn't be a surprise - CCW permit holders have been shown to be something like 30+ times less likely to be involved in any crime than non-CCW permit holders. CCW permit holders go through the hassle of obtaining special government permission to carry a firearm. They are hyper-law-abiding citizens. They have no disqualifying mental or criminal histories.

Second of all, there is absolutely no reason why someone who is 21 years old, has undergone a background check, and otherwise been vetted by the state to carry a concealed firearm down main street surrounded by hundreds of his fellow citizens cannot also walk across a college campus with that same firearm.

If a person is safe enough to be allowed in public with a concealed firearm, there is no reason why they are not safe enough to do it on a college campus.

[Kolesar]

18. College campuses consist of a lot of teenagers, not 21 year olds...eom

[S_B_Jackson]

19. College campuses also consist of alot of adults in excess of 21...

those who have served a full term of enlistment in our nation's armed forces, and either been discharged honorably or who remain in the Reserves, and who are attending college on the GI Bill.

Many who are members of Law Enforcement.

Adults who have returned to school to advance or to change their careers, or who have returned to school after having raised children to THEIR adulthood.

Nor should we forget the faculty and staff of the colleges/universities as well.....

[Kolesar]

27. Cue the fife and drums...eom

[S_B_Jackson]

37. Doing the ol' Shuffle off to Buffalo

because you have no facts to rebut the validity of my observations, huh?

Yup.

[DonP]

20. And no one is suggesting that the "teen agers" should be allowed to CCW

But the veterans that are enrolled, the grad students and the others over 21 are what everyone is talking about.

Or did I miss the discussion of giving teen agers firearms in direct violation of both Federal and State laws?

[one-eyed fat man]

30. Maine and Indiana

Both allow eighteen year olds to be licensed for concealed carry. Old enough to vote; old enough to tote.

One of my friends has a daughter who is a bright young student who is pursuing a degree in chemical engineering Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. Among her accomplishments she is the youngest person to ever achieve Master Class in IPSC/USPSA at the age of 17.

At one district match the Sheriff of that county joked that when she turned 18 she could apply for her permit, he'd waive the skill test.

[Atypical Liberal]

22. You have to be 21 to have a concealed carry permit.

In most, if not all states you have to be at least 21 to have a concealed carry permit.

[armueller2001]

23. If I recall correctly

something like 25% of those killed at Virginia Tech were over 21 and were eligible to obtain concealed handgun permits.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. Apparently they also have 5,000 som odd rapists too

[AtheistCrusader]

42. PROBLEM SOLVED THEN, since you must be 21 to carry a handgun at all.

Whew, thought there was a argument to be had here. Glad we dodged that.

[ileus]

38. I was CCing in BB yesterday as luck would have it, just not at VT

[AtheistCrusader]

41. So you shot up an electronic device full of heavy metals like lead, cadmium, zinc, germanium

and left at least some of it to leech into groundwater?

You're awesome.


I totally respect your opinion on campus carry, given your common sense displayed in the OP.