NRA: It's good to live like a king

[mgc1961]

There was a time, back before the late 1970s, when the National Rifle Association (NRA) represented their members. But not anymore.

Once they fully re-entered the world of politics on the heels of the Cincinnati Revolt, they became corrupted by the very special interest politics from which they claim to protect their members.

With their decision to reject the calculated negotiation of their previous "old guard" board members, who for example, came out publicly in support of a proposed ban on .38 Specials by then-senator Birch Bayh of Indiana, they embarked upon a "no compromise" plan of action for the future.

This, of course, made them natural allies of the gun manufacturers, who like arms dealers everywhere are far less interested in who they are selling weapons to than that they sell as many weapons as possible.

http://crooksandliars.com/cliff-schecter/nra-its-good-live-king

[Name removed]

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[onehandle]

2. They also fought the election of Obama tooth and nail.

And accordingly, should be treated here like any right-wing organization.

[Name removed]

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[jpak]

4. Which is ?- and how many of your guns has Obama grabbed

The NRA sucks

yuppo

[beevul]

37. Well, there are the m-1 rifles...

Well, there are the m-1 rifles, which he stopped the reimportation of.

M1 rifles, made in America.


Just curious, but how many does it take before it becomes wrong, in your view?

The U.S. government opposed South Korea’s bid to sell hundreds of thousands of aging U.S. combat rifles to American gun collectors, a senior government official said Thursday.

The ministry announced the plan last September as part of efforts to boost its defense budget, saying the export of the M1 Garand and carbine rifles would start by the end of 2009.

The U.S. administration put the brakes on the plan, citing “problems” that could be caused by the importation of the rifles.

The problems the U.S. government cited were somewhat ambiguous, said an official at the Ministry of National Defense on condition of anonymity.

“The U.S. insisted that imports of the aging rifles could cause problems such as firearm accidents. It was also worried the weapons could be smuggled to terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions,” the official told The Korea Times.


M1s were made first in 1926 and used in World War II and the 1954-1975 Vietnam War. The carbines were first produced in 1941 and used during the 1950-1953 Korean War.




http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_71329.html

[krispos42]

53. If Congress passed new, restrictive gun laws...

...would Obama have vetoed them? Would Obama have used the bully pulpit to influence the vote in Congress? Would Obama have met privately with Congresscritters to negotiate and compromise to keep the bill from getting to a floor vote in the first place?


If the answer to those questions is "no", then you can see why the NRA did not support him in 2008 and likely won't in 2012.

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. and barely a one trick pony.

yup

[Jackpine Radical]

7. The only time Americans have been forcibly disarmed

was under Bush in the midst of Katrina.

Blackwater wanted their targets disarmed.

[Name removed]

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[friendly_iconoclast]

13. The NO police chief hired by the Democratic mayor, at that.

[RSillsbee]

41. Back up there peaches

Several National Guard Units (most notably the Utah Guard)flat refused to confiscate civilian weapons. It was mostly California cops

ADDY LINKY
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/oath-keeping-national-guardsmen-refused-katrina-gun-confiscation

[Euromutt]

45. It depends on what you consider to constitute "forcibly"

As I understand, when New York City imposed its ban on so-called "assault weapons" in 1992, owners of long guns that fit the description were given six months to remove the weapon from the city or have it rendered inoperable, or face "stiff penalties" (and thanks to NYC's registry of long guns, the City authorities knew who owned what). Maybe no direct force was involved in the removal of these firearms, but any government-imposed restriction is ultimately backed by the threat of force in the event of non-compliance.

[safeinOhio]

14. John Kasich's record made Obama's look

like an A+. VOTED for AWD, ban deer hunting and restrict CCWS. Being a republican and former CEO of lehman Brothers, he got a pass and a B-. Now he has appointed a director of the state police that doesn't want CCW holder to be able to have their guns in cars. Then their board of directors is made up of the likes of Grover Norquist, Zell Miller and Ted Nugent.

I think their one issue is conservative politics.

[Katya Mullethov]

16. The NRA politician ratings are falling from use

Like telephone books . Many no longer consider the NRA to be relevant in this respect and they instead use the GOA's ratings. These are more often than not those who will not refer to themselves as "Sportsmen" .

[safeinOhio]

17. Now that IS a right wing

political organization. You belong?

[Katya Mullethov]

19. Nope

Nor the NRA . But I know a trend when I see one .

[Pullo]

30. The NRA did endorse Strickland, you might remember

much good it did him.

[Atypical Liberal]

10. But they endorsed Democrats in the last election.

In the last election, all of my Democratic candidates except one received high marks from the NRA. Three of them were the endorsed candidate. You can see my ballot in my sig.

The NRA supports politicians of any affiliation who support the right to keep and bear arms.

[X_Digger]

18. And they gave ~$530,000 to Democratic candidates in 2010..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=379165&mesg_id=380165

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00053553&cycle=2010


House:
Altmire, Jason (D-PA)...............$9,900
Arcuri, Michael (D-NY)..............$2,000
Baca, Joe (D-CA)....................$3,000
Barrow, John (D-GA).................$9,900
Berry, Marion (D-AR)................$1,500
Bishop, Sanford D Jr (D-GA).........$7,600
Boccieri, John A (D-OH).............$6,100
Boren, Dan (D-OK)...................$4,950
Boswell, Leonard L (D-IA)...........$7,950
Boucher, Rick (D-VA)................$5,950
Boyd, Allen (D-FL)..................$9,900
Bright, Bobby (D-AL)...............$10,050
Cardoza, Dennis (D-CA)..............$4,950
Carney, Chris (D-PA)................$8,600
Chandler, Ben (D-KY)................$7,950
Childers, Travis W (D-MS)...........$6,950
Costello, Jerry F (D-IL)............$2,000
Critz, Mark (D-PA)..................$2,500
Cuellar, Henry (D-TX)...............$2,150
Davis, Lincoln (D-TN)...............$9,900
Dingell, John D (D-MI)..............$7,950
Donnelly, Joe (D-IN)................$6,950
Edwards, Chet (D-TX)................$6,950
Gordon, Bart (D-TN).................$1,000
Green, Gene (D-TX)..................$2,000
Halvorson, Deborah (D-IL)...........$5,950
Heinrich, Martin (D-NM).............$2,000
Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie (D-SD)...$7,450
Higgins, Brian M (D-NY).............$1,000
Hill, Baron (D-IN)..................$6,950
Holden, Tim (D-PA)..................$9,900
Jones, Vernon (D-GA)................$1,500
Jordan, James D (R-OH)..............$3,000
Kagen, Steve (D-WI).................$8,950
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA)............$7,450
Kind, Ron (D-WI)....................$2,000
Kissell, Larry (D-NC)...............$9,900
Kratovil, Frank M Jr (D-MD).........$9,900
Marshall, Jim (D-GA)................$6,950
Matheson, Jim (D-UT)................$5,000
McIntyre, Mike (D-NC)...............$6,950
Mollohan, Alan B (D-WV).............$4,950
Murphy, Scott (D-NY)................$2,500
Murtha, John P (D-PA)...............$2,500
Nye, Glenn (D-VA)...................$5,100
Obey, David R (D-WI)................$3,500
Ortiz, Solomon P (D-TX).............$2,000
Owens, Bill (D-NY)..................$2,000
Perriello, Tom (D-VA)...............$5,950
Peterson, Collin C (D-MN)...........$1,500
Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND)................$4,500
Rahall, Nick (D-WV).................$6,950
Ross, Mike (D-AR)...................$5,000
Ryan, Tim (D-OH)....................$3,000
Salazar, John (D-CO)................$3,000
Shuler, Heath (D-NC)................$8,450
Skelton, Ike (D-MO).................$6,950
Space, Zachary T (D-OH).............$9,900
Stupak, Bart (D-MI).................$1,000
Taylor, Gene (D-MS).................$4,500
Walz, Timothy J (D-MN)..............$3,000
Wilson, Charlie (D-OH)..............$6,100
Total: $335,700

Senate:
Dorgan, Byron L (D-ND)..............$2,500
Ellsworth, Brad (D-IN)..............$9,900
Manchin, Joe (D-WV).................$4,950
Reid, Harry (D-NV)..................$4,950
Total: $22,300

Additional Independent Expenditures to (D) candidates:

Altmire, Jason..............$10,346
Boren, Dan...................$8,175
Boyd, Allen.................$14,377
Cardoza, Dennis..............$4,322
Childers, Travis W...........$4,518
Davis, Lincoln...............$6,539
Dingell, John D..............$3,626
Halvorson, Deborah...........$4,216
Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie...$8,711
Hill, Baron....................$850
Holden, Tim..................$8,594
Kilroy, Mary Jo................$595
Lentz, Bryan...................$595
Matheson, Jim................$8,704
Mollohan, Alan B.............$6,675
Murray, Patty................$6,706
Rahall, Nick.................$2,591
Ross, Mike...................$6,627
Shuler, Heath...............$23,161
Skelton, Ike.................$8,796
Space, Zachary T.............$4,610
Strickland, Ted.............$25,143
Taylor, Gene.................$3,201
Total: $171,618

Grand Total: $529,618

[onehandle]

21. Yes. This room's undying love for Blue Dogs is well known. And they're...

[X_Digger]

25. Like our minority leader? *snort* n/t

[onehandle]

34. You mean MAJORITY Leader Reid? They didn't endorse him when teabaggers started complaining.

The NRA's right-wing base would have gone ballistic.

[X_Digger]

36. Yet they sent him $4,950, unlike his (R) competitor.

And $4,500 in 2004..

[Kolesar]

38. When Democrats run on right wing issues like guns, they LOSE

The Democratic party has many better ideas to run with than NRA dogma.

[Katya Mullethov]

67. I ALWAYS , and I mean ALWAYS say.... " I hunt " right before I say " but"

They can expect a TOTALLY different outcome if they do so as well .
Here it is straight from my playbook .


" Now ...... I may hunt .... but ......(for effect)....I believe The Bill of Rights of these United States is YOUR permit friend . "

[Katya Mullethov]

70. Was it the "friend" part ?

You gotta mix it up a little , make it your own .

[russ1943]

57. Typical distortion.

In the interest of full disclosure.
What this poster fails to mention is the NRA also spent $1,998,730 in their Independent Expenditure category, AGAINST, yes against, Democrat candidates. So they spent 3.7 times as much money against Democrats than they did supporting some pro gun Democrats.
It also, is only reasonable to keep in perspective the whopping $5,840,681 Grand Total the NRA spent on Republican candidatess. (Additionally they spent $35,834 against the few Repubs who didn’t follow the NRA talking points.)
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/indexpend.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00053553

[X_Digger]

58. Would a 'right wing' organization spend $530k on the competition?

Would a 'right wing' organization spend $35k against their own party?

They contribute to and endorse whomever they think will defend the right protected by the second amendment. Blue, red, green, or purple.

That's how a successful single issue advocacy group works.

[PavePusher]

27. You may have noticed that President Obama....

is not a particularly strong supporter of the Second Amendment.

[Sonoman]

6. Just like Pharma and Insurance "helped" write new Medicare.

I appreciate a quality firearm, but fuck NRA.

Seriously, fuck 'em.

Sonoman

[Name removed]

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[lawodevolution]

35. Good for you but I donate to the NRA, what are you going to do about that?

Nothing

[spin]

11. That .38 special that the NRA stopped from being banned ...

is basically my carry gun.

I carry a snub nosed .38 caliber S&W 5 shot revolver called a Model 642 Airweight.

It's a great weapon for concealed carry. It's very light and snag free and makes an excellent pocket pistol as it is snag free.

Smith & Wesson Model 642
By Syd

It was the best selling firearm offered by Smith & Wesson in 2006. Tradition holds that the original design emerged from the creative mind of Col. Rex Applegate. Among the small revolvers, it has been called a personal favorite by Walt Rausch, Massad Ayoob, Jim Wilson, Stephen Camp, Ken Hackathorn and many others. Jim Supica, author of The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, said that it was possibly the finest pocket revolver ever made. It is the Smith & Wesson Model 642 Airweight Centennial.

***snip***

Summary

Two thumbs up! Its a great little revolver. The 642 is a time-proven design, endorsed by experts in the field, and an excellent value in a concealable handgun. Jim Wilson calls it the always gun because its one you can always have on you.
http://www.snubnose.info/docs/m642.htm

[Hoyt]

20. If more gun owners today were like you -- .38 Special -- there really wouldn't be a problem.

Unfortunately, today's gun-obsessed have to take everything too far coveting hi-cap magazines, "assault" style weapons, etc.

[GreenStormCloud]

24. How does it hurt you that I have a .45 as well as a .38? N/T

[PavePusher]

28. How is my AR-15 a problem?

Please, be specific.

[east texas lib]

61. Uh, mostly because it's not MINE!

;(

[PavePusher]

65. Ha! Good answer! You're welcome to borrow it if you're ever in the area. n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

51. Cheap low capacity "saturday night specials" account for a good portion of gun crime.

They are cheap, easy to find, and get the job done. Why would a criminal buy a $400 pistol when an old $75 beater works?
And assault style weapons account for, percentage-wise, very little crime.Large, expensive, difficult to conceal...

I'm not sure your view of gun crime is accurate enough to formulate a correct opinion such as stated.

[Pullo]

52. Quit trying to ban those items, and they will be coveted less

"Assault weapons" didn't become the most popular center-fire rifles on the market until some people attempted to ban them.

The anti's never learn.

[spin]

54. I might also carry a firearm with a hi-cap magazine ...

if I had larger hands. Since hi-cap magazines are normally double stacked, the grip of the firearm has to be thicker. I can shoot such weapons but I have to slightly cant the firearm in my hand to reach the trigger which throws my group pattern off a little. The other factor in my decision on what to carry is that I am a "wheel gunner". I prefer the simplicity and reliability of a revolver to a semi-auto pistol.

In reality, here in Florida, many people with concealed weapons permits often carry more compact firearms which hold 10 rounds or less. In Florida's heat, it makes sense to pick a lighter small weapon to carry. My son in law, for example, carries a Ruger LCP which has a six round magazine. He found it more comfortable to carry than his other pistol, a Glock 26 .40 which has a 10 round standard magazine. Hi-cap magazines are available for both of these pistols.


Ruger LCP


Glock 26

If open carry becomes law in Florida, more people may carry larger handguns as they would no longer have to worry about concealing them. Still the larger the handgun, the more it usually weighs. Despite what you often read here, most people who carry a firearm in public are not paranoid or fearful. Therefore, one of the most important considerations is how comfortable it is to carry the weapon. Heavy firearms are a pain to lug around. I've found that the people who always carry usually carry lighter smaller weapons. Those who carry larger weapons usually leave them home.

[YllwFvr]

63. I carry full sized

but then again open or concealed is really a non issue here. My clothing style is tight-ish shirts so it prints like crazy if Im not wearing a jacket. I also carry every day.
Is that a Glock or are you just happy to see me?

[TPaine7]

71. Minor quibble: Glock 26 = 9mm, Glock 27 = .40 caliber.

The Glock 26 will carry 10 rounds with a standard magazine, but the small Glock in .40--the 27--will only hold 9 rounds in the standard magazine.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. What about gun owners with so-called 'deer rifles'? They're actually sniper rifles.

You own a few, don't you? When are you going to set an example and destroy them?


Since you're quite willing to decry guns *other* people own because they might be dangerous,

feel free to put your money where your mouth is.


Or are you all hat and no cattle?

[Atypical Liberal]

12. What a load.

First of all, if the NRA keeps things going on the firearm legislation front like they have been for the last couple of decades, I'm quite happy with the head guy making a million bucks a year.

Second of all, if firearm manufacturers are doing well, then firearm rights are doing well, so I'm happy about that, too.

Third of all, if NRA members weren't happy with their representation, they would quit. But 4 million people seem quite content with their representation.

I'm all for unions. Collective bargaining and organization is powerful. The NRA is a Union for firearm enthusiasts. I'm proud to be a part of it.

[safeinOhio]

15. They do a good job of training and safety

and that is what about 90% join for. Otherwise it wouldn't be that only 5& to 7% car enough to vote on board members. Some polls have shown that most don't agree with some of their views on politics and gun rights.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. All the NRA members that I know join to protect gun rights.

Most don't vote because they don't think anything needs changing. They are happy with the NRA the way it is. You made that 90% figure up out of thin air.

[safeinOhio]

39. From a pro NRA web site

http://firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=502:nra-board-elections-2010&catid=19:the-knox-update&Itemid=144

Typically fewer than 7% of eligible NRA members cast a ballot.  That’s embarrassing.  It’s your association – it’s your vote.  Make it count.

Looks like 93% don't vote.

How many times have you voted?

[GreenStormCloud]

43. That 93% don't vote does NOT mean that they only joined for the

safety and training programs. If that were true then the NRA would have constantly had its huge membership. You may wish to notice that the NRA's membership surged when gun right came under attack which indicates that people were joining as a way of promoting gun rights.

[safeinOhio]

48. It could indicate that all of those

buying guns were afraid of crime with the cut backs in law enforcement that was going on at the same time and they were signing up for safety and CCW classes.
Of course you realize that there was a huge sign up, at the same time, in hate groups, as document by the Southern Law Poverty Center. Does that correlation show the NRA is a hate group? Be careful with your correlations.

[Euromutt]

49. Calling the Knox Update "pro-NRA" requires clarification

Jeff Knox is the son of the late Neal Knox, who led a couple of coup attempts on the NRA leadership back in the 1980s, IIRC. It was largely due to Neal Knox's activities that the leadership of the NRA is structured the way it is, with its "absurdly large Board of Directors." The reason only 1/3 of the Board is up for re-election any given year is so that it's impossible for a coalition hostile to LaPierre to gain a majority on the Board in one go.

Knox may be a fervent supporter of the NRA as an organization, but that doesn't mean he supports its leadership.

Anyway, part of the reason--or so I suspect--very few members vote is because voting can't bring about any far-reaching change. If you don't like it, you can resign your membership.

And to answer your question concerning myself: I have voted zero times because I haven't been a member for five years yet.

[Pullo]

56. Great point. Knox took on NRA leadersip several times

That is why he was kicked out of the NRA at one point. The Firearms Coalition Knox formed was his response to that event.

Basically, Knox's view was the NRA didn't go far enough to protect the RKBA.

[GreenStormCloud]

22. The NRA does represent its members.

We VOTE on who shall be board members and on their policies. If the NRA leadership did not represent us then the membership would be far less than 4+million members.

When did Bayh attempt to get .38s banned? I Googled and all I found was references to your linked article. If Bayh had attempted a ban on such a common handgun it would be legend among pro-RKBA folks.

[X_Digger]

26. Don't expect Cliff Schecter to get anything right re guns..

It wasn't 38 special, it was 'saturday night specials' --

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,877975,00.html

[safeinOhio]

40. Looks like teabaggers are the biggest voters

Grover Norquist-Board of Directors-NRA

[GreenStormCloud]

44. In preserving the RKBA one takes one's allies where one can find them.

The NRA is a single issue organization and takes no stand on other issues. Individual members, of course, may have stands on other issues.

[safeinOhio]

47. Prostitutes will take money

from any john.

I support labor, but I'll never join the communist party.

[one-eyed fat man]

29. Birch Bayh and "Saturday Night Specials"

Is no one old enough to remember Birch Bayh's coining the term "Saturday Night Special" forty years ago? It wasn't a ban on .38 specials, anyone who makes that claim is woefully misinformed and clueless.

The bill defined a "Saturday Night Special" as a pistol no longer than six inches with a barrel no longer than three. That would have banned all small pistols including all the snub nose revolvers police detectives of the era carried. That .38 Special was the most widely used police caliber had nothing to do with it. Caliber did not matter, anything with a barrel under three inches would have been banned.


Birch Bayh Press Releases 1969-1972

div class="excerpt"]Press release # 129-71 September 10, 1971

"Bayh plans to introduce amendment to Gun Control Act of 1968 to prohibit sale of "Saturday Night Special" handguns (includes statement)"

[X_Digger]

31. Hehe, look up one post :) n/t

[Pullo]

32. Sour grapes.

This chump refuses to see the correlation between the NRA taking the hard line, and the political clout they have gained over recent decades.

He is in denial and can only comprehend their success because of the NRA being a supposed 'gun industry stooge.'


Sorry, dipshit. The NRA is powerful because its millions of members and even more gun-owning non-members are very passionate about defending their RKBA.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[applegrove]

42. The gun manufacturers are in cahoot with the military industrial complex just

like any other weapons manufacturer and the NRA them. It is a trade association masking itself as a group the represents gun owners.

[Euromutt]

46. No, that would be the NSSF and SAAMI

The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the trade association for the shooting, hunting and firearms manufacturing industries. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute is, as the name implies, a trade association of firearms and ammunition manufacturers, which sets standards for ammunition and chamber specifications, chamber pressure limits, fire codes etc. SAAMI is accredited with the United Nations Economic and Social Council as an NGO with Consultative Status.

The NSSF and the NRA have actually butted heads on occasion; I recommend reading Ricochet by Richard Feldman, who used to work for the NRA, then switched to the NSSF, for some examples. He's unapologetically pro-gun, but he has some nasty things to say about Wayne LaPierre, among others.

[GreenStormCloud]

50. I read that book. It is very informative. N/T

[DonP]

55. Wow! Nice consipracy theory.

"Military industrial complex" what do you think it's 1958?

Do you see those black helicopters hovering over your home too?

The NRA has around 4.5 million members that pay roughly $35 a year to belong. They have a political arm that is funded seperately by donations.

But their real clout comes from having, as a single issue organization, the largest single voting bloc in the country. When you include the independent state rifle and pistol organizations and all the extended family members that don't hold memberships, they are formidable on most elections days. Can they dictate who sits in the oval office, no, but they can seriously influence local and state elections as well as many federal districts.


It would be nice if you did even a shred of research before making really stupid shit up and looking silly.

[applegrove]

60. And it would be impossible for populist organizations to be taken over by the agenda of big business

As if that has never happened.

[Euromutt]

66. In this case, the NRA *is* the business in question

The NRA is not unlike most other organizations, in that the perpetuation of the organization becomes as important, if not more so, than the objectives the organization was originally set up to pursue. LaPierre and Cox are doing well as it is; they don't need the firearms manufacturing industry to pull their strings for them. And honestly, I don't know how you'd hold on to 4.5 million members if you weren't providing them with something they want.

And sorry, but your "as if that has never happened" line is simply an argument from ignorance (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#ignorantiam); you're asserting that it's true because it hasn't been proven false.

[DonP]

68. Geez, buy a new roll of tinfoil - OK?

Make sure you turn it shiny side out for your head and shiny side in when you line your shorts with it. That makes the evil NRA waves bounce away 18% more effectively.

But thanks for the second post, now we can triangulate on your location.

You are right about one thing, the NRA is indeed a populist organization. The corporations and other associate members do not get to vote, just us people types. But keep the fear alive.

[applegrove]

69. The conservatives figured out at the time of disrali that if they got the little people

all worked up about one issue (in the case of disrali it was english patriotism), they could then get the little people to vote conservative and against their own self interest.

[DonP]

73. I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere - but at least spell Disraeli correctly

I have no idea how your post is in any way relevant to the subject under discussion.

Next time make it simpler for us poor dumb knuckle draggin' gun guys, or better yet diagram it and please - have a point.

[jody]

59. I love such threads. It attracts posts with such incredible ignorance bordering on pure stupidity.

[Euromutt]

64. "Gun Guys [...] found that LaPierre's [salary] was the equivalent of 35,000 NRA membership renewals"

So, at the time about 1% of the membership dues, then. That's not counting ancillary contributions to the ILA and PVF, endowments, certification fees, etc. etc.

By contrast around the same time, Josh Sugarmann and Kristen Rand (the Violence Policy Center's counterparts to LaPierre and Chris Cox, resp.) each received salaries and benefits equivalent to ~16.4% of the VPC's "public support." Note that the VPC doesn't have members; over 2/3 of that "public support" consisted of a grant from the Joyce Foundation.

[friendly_iconoclast]

72. BTW. Gun Guys are kaput- they quit updating their site last year.

Gun prohibitionists seem to suffer from generalized pronoia- and it shows....

[DonP]

74. Well, there's a surprise - another "reasonable" challenger to the NRA in the crapper

I wonder what the name of the next one will be. "The Helmke/Hennigan Associations For Shooting Sports"?