Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I think it's time to outlaw fire.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:16 PM
Original message
I think it's time to outlaw fire.
Fire only has one purpose--to burn things.

And look how many things it burns down--houses, day care centers, hospitals, businesses, forests, etc.

Fire only consumes stuff, and there are some people who are irresponsible when it comes to fire. Whether accidentally or intentionally, they burn things down, they kill or disfigure people. 3500 people a year die in fires. Billions of dollars of property go up in smoke every year.

Fire is bad, because it can cause unpleasant consequences. It burns stuff--and that is what it is supposed to do.

So we should ban fire. No one should be allowed to start, make or ignite any kind of fire, because of the potential damage it can do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. When you can cook dinner with your guns, give me a call.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. LOL! +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I can acquire dinner with my guns.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Using firearms for hunting is a different kettle of fish from walking
around armed on the off-chance of confronting an attacker.

Even at that, i differentiate between "hunters", people who respect my woods and the animals there and "shooters" - people like Dick Cheney who shouldn't be allowed near firearms.

My neighbor hunts my property and shares his kills when he gets a deer. During the off-season, he visits his hide and takes video of the animals passing through.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. I've had to use a firearm to fend off an attacker
So my odds are 100% and i'm damn glad I had a gun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. I've got a machinegun... I could probably fry an egg on the barrel block after a few mags.
Edited on Tue Mar-01-11 03:00 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
After 1 mag of full auto through it, the barrel and truntion anre too hot to touch. I'm sure a few mags could yeild enough heat to cook.

I also know if I shoot a few mags through a silencer that the silencer will melt truck beds and catch grass/brush on fire. They get red hot. I'm sure you could cook just about anything with a suppressor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straw Man Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Your right to cooked food...
...doesn't trump my right to safety. Eat it raw. It's for the children.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. You have no idea

That's bacon grease flying outta there .

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Machinegewehr 42..
ausgezeichnet!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. I've gotta image some troops somewhere are using THAT against pork-averse combatants/insurgents.
Guns & Bacon.
Awesome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I used to have one of crew roasting marshmallows
In the muzzle flash of an air cooled Browning .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Ever seen a glowing hot M60 barrel? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Not an M60
But I've seen the powder chamber on an M198 so hot it sizzled when I swabbed it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fire is a naturally occurring phenomena.
Guns firing bullets into nine year-old girls, not so much.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oh, so you want to outlaw putting bullets into 9-year old girls?
I'm all for that. It would be nice if we had some laws like that already on the books.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. One day
murder will be illegal.

One day ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Reductio ad absur -dumb. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. We should outlaw oxygen ...
you get too much, you get too high; not enough and you're gonna die.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Not outlawed. Just regulated and taxed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think it's time to outlaw teh DERP. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think we should outlaw...
stupid OP's.

In this case, however, it's too late,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Agreed.
We can start with your posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well...
why don't you find one of my "stupid O.P's", then? Take your time.

Too funny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. With that law you'd violate jpak's 1A
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ooh, you seem to have touched a nerve..
Allow me to add..

A principal source of errors and injustice are false ideas of utility. For example: that legislator has false ideas of utility who considers particular more than general conveniencies, who had rather command the sentiments of mankind than excite them, and dares say to reason, `Be thou a slave’; who would sacrifice a thousand real advantages to the fear of an imaginary or trifling inconvenience; who would deprive men of the use of fire for fear of their being burnt, and of water for fear of their being drowned; and who knows of no means of preventing evil but by destroying it.

The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to prevent. Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance? Does not the execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear to mankind and to the wise legislator? and does it not subject the innocent to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty? It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons.

–Cesare Beccaria
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I can't imagine why. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Hence, the logical fallacy in your OP. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Except there is no logical fallacy. It's a very reasonable argument.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. You have mischaracterized an entire line of argument, and all of the variations within its internal
logic, in terms of a singular absurd comparison between two things that don't share any essential characteristics.

Even if I accepted that comparison, your reduction of any and all forms of opposing reason to a single uncharacteristic extremity is a falsehood that allows anyone capable of reason to simply regard your point of view as dishonest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Them's some purty words.
However, no matter how much you consult your thesaurus, there's no fallacy in what I proposed. It's a valid analogy to the arguments made around these parts. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not effective or accurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. "disarm" = Straw Man - IF anyone is proposing that, it is most likely by far the MINORITY position
Edited on Tue Mar-01-11 02:05 PM by patrice
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. The Brady Campaign and VPC (the forefront of gun control lobbying) have indicated exactly that goal.
In all fairness, gun control as a whole is a minority position in america. And trends indicate it becomes more and more irrelevent everyday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The word "disarm" without any qualifications implies ALL guns. No one, or so few,
is/are espousing that position as to be effectively ir-relevant.

What is happening is that law-enforcement professionals are making a professional case against assault weapons and certain kinds of clips for automatic weapons.

As legitimate as any case on either side might be, it does nothing for the opposing position to reduce empirically valid information to 0. That looks biased and gives grounds for dismissal. A standard that supports validity requires empirical not ideological support for one's position.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Disarm does not always mean all guns.
Only if you attempt to frame it that way does your point have any validity.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I wonder how that poster feels about restricting some abortions... (but not all, no no!)
Edited on Tue Mar-01-11 04:33 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
As long as there are some abortions then they are not "banned".

I wonder what other rights that poster's view points can be assigned to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Groups leading the gun control lobby HAVE stated things like you are refering to... here:
Edited on Tue Mar-01-11 04:27 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
Josh Sugerman, VPC, talking about the willful confusion and conflation of "assaust weapons" with "machine guns" to confuse the public into viewing "assault weapons" as more then just dressed up hunting rifles. "Assault weapons"... EVERY SINGLE ONE... is semi automatic and works just like a hunting rifle and shoots common low-powered hunting rifle rounds - they're merely dressed up to "look like the real thing". This is 100% intellectual dishonest to trick the public into supporting a worthless ban:
"The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons--anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."


Charles Krauthammer, Pulitzer Prize-winning coumnist, was published in the Washington Post (very mainstream meadia) saying:
"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic — purely symbolic — move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."


Then there is the fact that enough never seems to be enough for gun control lobbyists. The were at it again before the ink was even dry on the first AWB. After passing 10 round mag limits on new mags in the 1994 AWB, they proposed followup legislation AWB II, that took the limitatoin in the AWB even further... including a new 6 round capacity limit! The only logical reaction for anyone who opposes them and the people they support is to rigorously oppose them at every turn - they brought that kind of trust onto themselves.

Originally published in 1994, here is the plan of HCI - now "The Brady Campaign" - to disarm America.
See Guns & Ammo magazine, July 1994, pgs. 26-27 for more.
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly known as, "Handgun Control, Inc.")
One Million Strong...working to keep handguns out of the wrong hands.

National Headquarters
1225 Eye St, N.W.
Suite 1100
Washington, D.C. 20005
(202) 898-0792

CONFIDENTIAL! NOT FOR GENERAL DISTRIBUTION!
Notes and Minutes of Meeting of Friday, December 17, 1993
Rough Draft Proposal for Internal Memo and Five Year Plan


White House Meetings:
It was decided to forward the following to the national office for reference. A series of brainstorming meetings will be held at the White House through Winter 1994. All suggestions should be collated and delivered to our policy team by then.

Fundraisers:
A series of fundraisers should be organized for local political allies through the spring of 1994, the details will be outlined in an attached memo. We should have a stronger presence at Anna Eshoo's fund raiser in early January.

Press Releases:
A subcommittee on media and public affairs assembled as list of press releases and studies, which can be timed to one released to the media per day, in order to fully maintain the high profile of the gun control issue. We don't want to lose the momentum initiated by the massacre in Long Island, however, many local news organizations have been very active in keeping the gun control issue resolutely in view, without any assistance from us. Be sure to call the various station managers and news services to express your thanks.

D-Day is January 1994...
This month will be crucial to swaying votes for Sen. Feinstein's Assault Weapon Ban. Once this passes, we will see the beginning of a landslide which the NRA thugs will not be able to stop, or their few pawns in Congress to able to fillibuster.

Thanking our friends...
A subcommittee will draft a letter of support to Rep. Charles Schumer and offer additional materials that we have collated for his use in testimony and press conferences. A special press conference was proposed in order to thank various State politicians for their support for stricter gun control. The subcommittee urged HCI members to maintain the current high visibility of the gun-control issue and remember to praise President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno for their political courage for standing up to the old boy network of the Gun Lobby. Special praise to Senator Dianne Feinstein was mentioned for her courage in standing up to the even diminishing number of gun crazy extremists who are actually pushing to make our society a killing field.

What is pending now and can be law in 1994!
-- Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets
-- Ban on all semiautos which can fire more than 6 bullets without reloading
-- Ban of possession of parts to convert arms into military configuration
-- Ban on all pump shotguns capable of being converted to over 5 shots without reloading
-- Banning of all machine guns, destructive devices, short shotguns/rifles, assault weapons, Saturday Night Specials and Non-Sporting Ammunition.
-- Arsenal licensing (for possession of multiple guns and large amounts of ammunition)
-- Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship, long considered a sacred cow and a dinosaur from the Cold war years (Thank you President Clinton!!!)
-- Ban on possession of a firearm within a home located within 1000 feet of schoolyard
-- Ban on all realistic replicas/toy guns or non-firearms capable of being rendered realistic
-- The right of victims of gun violence to sue manufacturers and dealers to be affirmed and perhaps, aided with money from government programs.
-- Taxes on Ammo, Dealers licenses and guns to offset the medical costs to society. and...
-- the eventual ban of all semi-automatics (regardless of when made or what caliber)

What was only a dream ten years ago can be reality as early as this year!!!
After the meeting, the following ideas were the result of a brainstorming session to guide the focus of gun control initiatives over the next five years. These may not be politically feasible ideas for 1994, but we are confident that with continued pressure we can achieve most if not all of these goals within the next five years. The following list is condensed from our meeting in which we considered the best ideas for public safety expansion. The time is right for action.

Five year Plan:

Licenses:

1. National Licensing of all Handgun purchases.
This is at the top of our list, however, the political climate may be right to initiate this step immediately. Please refer to our memo outlining our ideas on how this should be executed.

2. Licenses for Rifles and Shotguns
We should take our cues from Great Britain. Strict licensing should be mandatory for all firearms, whether handguns or not.

3. State licenses for ownership of firearms
We want to take a workable idea from Great Britain, whereas, we should require the states to issue strict licenses for possession and require the licenses to be signed by at least three public officials -- i.e., the police chief, the city attorney and the mayor, for example, to eliminate ownership by dangerous individuals. It is reasonable to require that all individuals must prove to the signers that they require a firearm. This should be attached to any legislation required purchasers to show a need for a firearm.

4. Reduction of the number of guns to require an Arsenal license
Right now the proposed Arsenal licenses which Senator Feinstein should be pushing for, requires an "Arsenal License" for those people who feel they need more than 20 guns and 1000 rounds of ammunition. We feel that this number is too generous, due to the fact that any number of guns constitutes a grave threat to the safety of the community, we suggest strongly that this license limit be reduced to possession greater than 5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition.

5. Arsenal License Fees
It is not unreasonable to require a yearly fee for an Arsenal license to be at least $300.00, with a cap of $1000.00. The money collected can be used to defray the immense medical costs directly attributed to these deadly weapons.

6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing
No Arsenal licensing to be permitted in counties with populations of more than 200,000.

7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safe for all guns
We should follow Great Britain's lead on this. All licensed gunowners should be required to have a storage safe which meets minimum federally mandated requirements. Thus step would reduce the tragic accidents which claim the lives of tens of thousands of children a year and make it more difficult for burglars to steal the guns.

8. Inspection license
Another good revenue source would be mandatory inspection of all safes. Each safe would be registered with a specific serial number and the serial numbers and types of weapons stored should be on file with federal and state authorities. Since unannounced inspections can insure that all declared weapons are being properly stored, all safe licenses should have an additional yearly fee to offset the cost of these spot inspections.

Public Safety Regulations:

9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than 200,000
Guns are being built all the time and the number of licensed manufacturers are too great to justify the threat to public safety. This is a small step to reduce the number of these shops where anything, even machine guns, are being built every day.

10. Banning all military style firearms
The Pending National ban on all Assault Weapons, based on a point system can be expanded to eventually cover any firearm with a remotely military appearance. We feel that this aggressive appearance appeals to the type of dangerous individuals who are a definite threat to public safety. We hope that this point system can eventually be expanded to high powered air guns and "paint ball" weapons, which can inflict great damage, and with a little effort can be easily converted into real guns.

11. Banning of any Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine Gun
Periodicals such as "The ShotGun News" particularly cater to individuals which wish to build illegal machine guns. If Senator Feinstein's courageous section of the Crime Bill is successful in banning all machine guns, except for police and military, then there would be no legitimate need for Machine Guns parts except to build illegal weapons.

12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range or in transit from one to the other
We should institute a federal mandate to the states to strictly regulate the carrying of firearms.

13. Banning replacement parts (mfg, sale, possession, transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group
Thousands of people are building illegal weapons every day. We can put a dent in this by banning parts and parts kits, except those items like the barrel and trigger group, which are most likely to wear out due to use.

14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list
A gun is a gun. Even an old gun can kill people. This is a loop hole in federal law which has allowed thousands of dangerous weapons to be distributed unchecked. This regulation, if enacted, would automatically eliminate the need for a Curio or relic collector's license. All handguns, rifles and shotguns would fall under the same category as their modern counterparts.

15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms
Senator Moynihan has already proposed a tax or ban on .22LR, 32 acp, 25 acp and 9mm ammo, however, it has been pointed out to us that there is an extreme proliferation of high powered surplus rifles (i.e. the Moisin-Nagant series and the Enfield series) in which the wholesale prices are as low as $45-75. We suggest that to control the proliferation of violence associated with the large numbers of these types of weapons entering this country that we ban the importation of their ammunition, 7.64x54R and .303 R surplus ammunition.

16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession
This may be closer to reality than many of us think. Handguns are becoming increasingly unpopular and we think that within five years we can enact a total ban on possession at the federal level.

17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945)
With the proliferation of high powered weapons, including semi-automatics and automatics from World War II, we suggest following the lead of Mexico, by prohibiting the sale, manufacture, possession or transfer of any caliber fitting a military firearm in service with a recognized military force after 1945.

Ammunition and Explosives:

18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of ammunition.
With the bombing of the World Trade Center, it has been made clear that we must control the amount of explosive materials in public hands. It is arguable that no has any real need to have so much dangerous material on hand.

19. Ban on the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kilogram at any one time.
Gun nuts are notorious for circumventing the intent of the law, so we can reinforce the above proposed regulation with this additional notation. This additional language can be useful in preventing "bomb-maker" hobbyists and other dangerous individuals.

20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo
In addition to the banning of military calibers, there is a plethora of dangerous rounds, which are too high powered for sporting use. This includes the highest calibers of pistol and rifle ammunition (of note are the monster calibers for rifles and pistols, like the .50 caliber Desert Eagle Bullet). We should not forget the lessons learned with the insidious Black Talon Ammo, Hollow points, Glaser killing rounds and other types of ammunition design specifically for maiming should be prohibited.

21. A National License for Ammunition
This is an idea whose time has come. We should look at a Federal License for purchasing of ammunition of all kinds. A special form should be forwarded to a new federal office to track those who are purchasing too much ammunition. Remember that a gun is useless without ammunition.

22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components
Ammunition regulation laws can be regularly bypassed by home loaders, creating an underground cottage industry of ammo manufacturers. Possession or purchase of re-loading materials and machines should be restricted and those who wish to use specially loaded ammunition can go to a federally licensed "re-loader".

23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.
Fees collected from the national licenses should go towards a nationwide database of ammo buyers, with a possible background check to eliminate the purchase of dangerous ammo by felons or mental patients.

24. Requirement of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing
Like the storage safe for guns, there should be a national requirement for special safes to store ammo. These safes should be tamper proof and fireproof and be registered themselves so that on the spot inspections can be held. Again, the costs for these inspections can be absorbed by the license fees.

Gun Ranges:

25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations of less than 200,000
The obvious threat to public safety of shooting ranges and stray bullets has been lost on many states and counties. We can initiate a federal mandate or incentives to get states to prohibit any kind of shooting range within a county with a population of more than 200,000.

26. Special licensing of ranges
Those ranges which conform to the previous requirement should get special licensing above and beyond that which is required now. Additionally, each existing or new shooting range must get in writing the permission of all property owners within a radius of seven miles.

27. Special Range Tax to visitors
Additional revenue can be a surtax on ranges, requiring the collection of a minimum of $85.00 per visit per person. This can be in addition to required membership fees, upon which the state and local governments get a sizeable portion, to help defray the immense cost of gun violence.

28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges
It has been suggested in the past that felons can acquire pistols and other automatic weapons without a background check by renting a gun on a target range. Deranged individuals are basically being given a license to "practice hunting humans" at these so called "sporting ranges". We think that a national waiting period for gun rentals is yet another idea whose time has come.

Activities with promote Gun Violence:

29. Banning Gun Shows
Illegal transfers and the sales of assault weapons and submachine guns is a common event at these so called gun shows. A huge dent can be made in the illegal trafficking of weapons by banning these shows altogether.

30. Banning of military reenactments
The questionable "Historical" value of these events has escaped public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical events are a mere excuse for gun nuts to blast the countryside with automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil War Reenactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.

31. Making unlawful the assembly of more than 4 armed individuals who are not peace officers or military.
Since most hunting parties consist of four, we recognize the need to eliminate the currently legal assembly of shooters for paramilitary training on private lands. This is just one good suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture" from the mainstream.

32. Begin to curb hunting on all public lands.
Blood sports are an anathema to a civilized society, however, it has been a political reality that the hunters and their ilk have too strong of a stranglehold on Congress. We feel that the impending defeat of high tech assault "killing machines" will open the door to other restrictions. With the diminishing number of hunters, we feel that perhaps in five years we can open up much more of our country to campers and hikers, and eliminate this threat to families out camping, by looking at much more restrictions as to what parcels of land will allow hunting. This will not infringe on sportsmen's right to hunt on private land.

33. Making Gun Owners records and Photos matter of public record
We would have to assemble a legal team, in order to investigate the balance of the right to privacy and the right to safeguard the public. We fully endorse the photographing and fingerprinting of all gun owners, however, these records are usually relegated to law enforcement use only. We think that it would be a good idea to make these record(s) public, so that the communities have the knowledge of who poses a danger to their community before disaster strikes. We realize that this proposal would probably be controversial, thus a long public affairs campaign would have to be initiated in order to build public support and ease the transition of such an idea. We feel that this idea has merit, and can be justified via the past publication of the names of water wasters during drought, customers for prostitution, and deadbeat parents who are delinquent on child support.

34. Random Police Checks for Weapons (like sobriety checkpoints)
This idea was floated before in California in 1989, where some thought it would be a great deterrent to gang crime for police to do sweeps for gang weapons. Right now this idea may have some resistance, however, the political climate can become right to initiate these random vehicle stop and checks at all levels and in all types of neighborhoods. If we continue to maintain the pressure we can make this a reality.

The Next Fifteen Years

With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next fifteen years? With murders in the streets, and the public fed up, and the once mighty thugs of the gun lobby whimpering in impotence we have an opportunity to change the face of America for the better! Previously we thought that it would take at least a century to eliminate dangerous weapons and guns from the public hands, but now with allies in the White House and Congress, we can accelerate this trend, and make the barbaric NRA extinct!!! Here are some ideas to consider for the long term:

Banning of military acoutrements
Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as "militaria". Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21st century.


Stricter guidelines for violence in television and the movies
We should look at the possibility of victims of violence initiated by copying an act on television and the movie or video screen, suing the makers of such shows for compensation to their suffering. If the industry cannot regulate itself, we may have to eventually look at an independent branch of government, to determine which scenes cause more harm than good to the public and regulate the numbers of violent acts protrayed.

The total Elimination of arms from Society
We cannot survive into the 21st century unless we remember the need to expand our wave to new thinking to the total disarmament of America. With much of the public disarmed we can become more like Great Britain, where we can also eliminate the need for much of our police to be armed. This would take a long time, however, a concerted public relations campaign can pressure local law enforcement to give up their arms, when the time comes. Weapons, would be still available to special units like SWAT or the military.


Control of dangerous literature (Bomb making, machinegun conversion, etc.)
Too much irresponsible material is purportedly covered by the 1st amendment, however, the time will come when our nation has to agree that some literature does not belong in a safe society, like instruction manuals on how to kill, or how to make homemade explosives, or nuclear bombs. We must realize that there can be such a thing as too much freedom where such literature poses a serious threat to the public safety.

1994 sounds the death knell for the bully tactics of the NRA and the culture of violence in America!!

We are pressing on all fronts and much of this can become reality sooner than we expect. With the loss of power and clout of the NRA and their various smaller crony organizations crumbling to dust, we can eliminate a 200 year old license to murder into history, and enter the 21st century a safer place for our children and our children's children.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. The UK is an example of how a nation can slide down the slippery slope
Anti gun folk all have one thing in common. A desire to remove all guns from the hands of all citizens, one step at a time.

A true hunter who owns a rifle who is an honorable man or woman is not so petty as to be willing to ban another sportsmans firearm (such as an ar15).

So anyone pretending to be a gun owner in support of gun control is really just a liar and does not own a gun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Laws that place huge financial barriers to ownership.. such as in DC
.. laws that make sure only the politically connected, rich, or famous can protect themselves (NYC, many parts of CA)

.. laws that are a logistical nightmare to navigate in attempt to discourage ownership as much as possible (Chicago)..

.. laws that require a permit to carry a gun in one's own car (Maine, Pennsylvania, among others)..

All those laws either intentionally or not, have the result of disarming people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. matches can start fires. lighters, too. Ban them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. Only 3500 people per year? That's surprising, I would have guessed lot higher
for some reason. Interesting...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. I would have thought so, too.
That's the number I found...it was from 2007 or so. Just U.S.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
38. does your
car run on 9mms? After all internal combustion has a little fire to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
east texas lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. Agreed. Ban water too, just to be safe...
I want to feel saaaaaaaaafe.;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Remmah2 Donating Member (971 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. FLAME BAIT!
Flambe?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. No way. Too dangerous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC