Who needs a gun in a shoe store?

[mvccd1000]

Nobody, I guess, since in this case people were only pistol-whipped and robbed. I'm guessing such minor crimes do not rise to the level of allowing self-defense.

http://www.kpho.com/news/27047866/detail.html

PHOENIX -- Phoenix police are searching for two robbers who held up a shoe store near Thomas Road and 44th Street.

Police said the men burst into Wholesale Fashion Shoes around closing time, then ordered workers and patrons, including children, to the ground at gunpoint.

Investigators said the suspected robbed the store as well as patrons, taking money from women’s purses. They also said the store owner was pistol-whipped.

And yet some here would continue to call gun owners paranoid, because we all know nobody needs a gun in a shoe store...

[old mark]

1. K&R-Thank you for this post. I have a PA License To Carry A Firearm

and have for 16 years...I carry everywhere.

mark

[elias49]

9. Has carrying for 16 years ever done any good? nt

[old mark]

12. It has on one occasion, and it has never done me or anyone else any harm...nt

[cleanhippie]

21. Has it ever done any harm? No.

[armueller2001]

24. I've been wearing my seat belt for 10 years

and never needed it. Maybe I should get rid of it.

[mrbscott19]

2. I can see it now

Hindsight is 20/20

Instead of some scared kids and a pistol whipped owner there would be bodies on the floor some possibly belonging to kids. Great idea.

Stores have insurance for a reason. So you can risk the lives of you and your shoppers for a few bucks or you give the guy what he wants and let the police do their job. There is absolutely no reason for a gun in a shoe store. Bad people do bad things whether its robbing a shoe store at gunpoint or abducting a little kid on their way to school. Should we arm the kids too?

[atreides1]

3. But you forgot to mention something

Give the guy what he wants, let him rob you and your customers and then allow him to pistol whip you...you know because insurance will cover it!!

Insurance doesn't take care of everything you know.

[Tejas]

4. EXCELLENT question you posed.

.....or abducting a little kid on their way to school. Should we arm the kids too?

Any suggestions or solutions for this come to mind? Or should we just resign ourselves to "bad people do bad things"?

[mvccd1000]

5. And if the guy had decided to shoot instead of strike with his pistol?

Then you'd have bodies on the floor, just like they did in Bloomingdale's, or in the Jack In The Box and Subways in Arizona. You remember; the ones where the clerks handed over the money and were THEN herded into the food coolers and executed?

You may be willing to trust your life to the good graces of an armed criminal, but it's not right to make that same choice for the rest of the population.

(I generally open carry, so I'm going to guess that if these guys had seen me go into the store before they walked in, they would have simply gone to look for an easier target. I wouldn't have had to shoot all the kids in the store as I wildly sprayed cop-killer bullets from my high-capacity magazines. I'd much prefer to avoid than to confront.)


As for the insurance, how much good would THAT have done if one of the criminals had decided to shoot in the store? How much would it help the store owner if he loses an eye or suffers some other serious injury as a result of the pistol-whipping? I fail to understand people who put the rights of a criminal above the rights of the people who were simply going about their daily lives.

[rfranklin]

6. Or he knows that the chances are that you are armed...

so he comes in blasting before you can reach under the counter.

I am always amazed at how the scenarios imagined never seem to allow for that possibility.

[mvccd1000]

7. Probably because...

...nobody can remember EVER reading of such an occurrence*, while there is no shortage of stories about unarmed customers being robbed or shot.

I spent some time preparing my house for fire, too (extinguishers, alarms, escapes, etc.), but meteors... not so much. Some things happen on a regular basis (armed robberies, employees or customers shot, house fires), while other things do not (armed robbers coming in blasting when they see an armed customer, meteors striking houses, etc.)



*(I'm talking about armed robbers coming in blasting when they see an armed customer, not an armed robber coming in shooting at a clerk, as the armed customer is the scenario I discussed in my reply above.)

[rrneck]

18. What possibilities do you offer

for defense against others who may wish to do you harm using a knife, clubs, fists or feet without using a firearm?

[DWC]

22. I do carry a gun but

I also carry Mace / pepper spray. No prudent person wants to face or employ deadly force. If I think I can stop a situation without deploying my gun I will do it but if I think necessary, I will use my defensive gun without hesitation. The decision and consequences of that decision is mine.

Semper Fi,

[shedevil69taz]

29. If someone has shown

that they intend to do me physical harm I fully intend to disude them from such actions as strongly as I can. If that means shooting them so be it. Someone who is demonstrating they intend to do physical harm to me or my family will not be trusted to simply stop when an undetermined amount of pain has been inflicted.

[Vinee]

8. Pretty sure I'm not insured against losses incured as a result of being mugged.

[DonP]

10. Yeah, that worked really well in Lane Bryant, Brown's chicken etc.

They gave the guy what he wanted, laid down in the back of the store and he shot 5 of the 6 women in the back of the head anyway. He shot the 6th one too, but she accidentally survived.

But "imagine how much worse it could have been" if one of the women had been allowed to carry!

[RamboLiberal]

16. +1 Yup tell that to 5 dead women

And they still haven't got the killer. I was going to post the same reply. Over the years have read a number of cases where workers and in some cases customers were executed.

[one-eyed fat man]

13. Give them what they want?

That response doesn't much work if they kill you anyway. Do you hedge that if the crime in question is rape? Should the victim just get up off that pussy because criminals need love too?

Why should society compel victims to make the criminal's life as stress-free as possible?

[rrneck]

17. What if he just wants to kill you? nt

[DWC]

23. Three Options

1. Out run him,
2. Stop him with overwhelming force, or
3. Die

Semper Fi,

[MicaelS]

25. What if what the guy wants to rape?

Should the woman simply not resist, and hope it's over soon? Even if she has a gun?

[rl6214]

27. About 20 years ago in Lac Cruces,NM

There was a massacre at a local bowling alley. None of the patrons were armed. It wasn't just a robbery and pistol whipping. There were bodies on the floor, kids, and their parents couldn't do anything to stop it. All the cops could do was come to draw their outlines in chalk on the floor and write the follow up report. Insurance couldn't do anything to save those kids. This is what happens in your scenario.


LAS CRUCES -- An unlocked door. A morning robbery. Two suspects, one young, one old. An execution-style shooting. A young father and three girls, killed. The fire. A 12-year-old, shot in the head, called 911.

Many Las Crucens knows what happened that morning 20 years ago at the bowling alley.

And somewhere, someone knows why.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newmexico/ci_14354909

[guitar man]

28. What if what he wants

is no witnesses? What if what he wants is everybody dead?

The idea of giving in to thugs and criminals is ludicrous, simply ludicrous....

[GreenStormCloud]

30. What makes you think my shot would hit kids?

It is amazing anti-gunners think that we who have CCWs would be shooting wildly in all directions. The robber is easy to identify and will likely be within a 20 feet of me. That is an easy target. He won't know I am armed and will be trying to watch too much activity at once to notice me drawing a gun on him. On the proficiency test for my CHL I scored 250 out of a possible 250.

[Kennah]

31. Comes in, tells everyone get on the floor, and the targets become very easy to identify.

[Callisto32]

11. Someone who is there during a robbery?

[baldguy]

14. Al Bundy.

[-..__...]

19. I think given the choice, Al would prefer a quick painless death...

at the hands of some enraged crackhead, rather than spend yet another day in his living hell...

[WatsonT]

15. Not this guy:

[ileus]

20. If i'm there you can bet there's also an M&P there.

[rl6214]

26. But, but, but

if there weren't so many guns,

I mean we should give everyone guns,

I mean why are you so paranoid,

I mean we need to pass a law to make guns in shoe store illegal

I mean think of the children

:sarcasm: