Have you ever been a victim

[DWC]

of violent crime?

Have you or any loved one close to you ever been robbed, raped, attacked, car jacked, suffered a home invasion, or been the victim of similar violent crimes?

If so, what are your thoughts on the right of you as an honest, law abiding citizen to have firearms to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your property?

Semper Fi,

[Warpy]

1. Sure.

In addition, I'm a survivor of the murder of a close family member.

However, the last thing I want around is a gun. Any thug worth the name would just take it away from me and shoot me with it.

People here need their guns if they live on the edge of town or outside it. This is still the wild west and bear and cougar sightings are frequent. People need to have a second shot if the warning shot causes the one animal in a million to charge. There is no way I'd turn into a complete antigun person.

I just don't want one around, thanks.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. Why do you think any thug could take your gun away? N/T

[Warpy]

11. I'm an old lady with arthritis and piss poor vision

You do the math.

[Callisto32]

23. If a tool is ineffective in your hands, don't use it.

[GreenStormCloud]

31. Thank you for answering. N/T

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Very responsible position

My mother finally turned her self defense weapon over to me. She knew she could no longer safely use it and wanted it stored safely. One of my daughters has it now.

[WatsonT]

14. Well that is absolutely your right

much like making abortions legal doesn't force any woman to get one against her will, the 2nd amendment doesn't force you to own a gun (some countries have such a provision under various circumstances, but not here).

So as long as you don't interfere with anyone elses right to choose for themselves I don't see any problem.

[Remmah2]

2. Yup and yes to responsible firearm ownership. nt

nt

[Kennah]

3. Yes, armed robbery

I have a license to carry, and I do.

I also have over a 100 hours of advanced firearms training (Cathy Schlegel, Firearms Academy of Seattle, the late Jim Cirillo, and Mas Ayoob).

While I have the awareness and prepared, and I know I can pull the trigger if I had to, I'm also risk averse and tend to eschew situations where problems might happen.

[enough]

16. Thank you for taking this so seriously. I wish the gun-flaunting assholes I run into

had your attitude.

It's the guys who needlessly bring guns into a situation just to see who they can freak out that give guns a bad name, at least for me.

[Kennah]

21. IMHO, a lot of the assholes ...

... are all hat and no cattle. If push comes to shove, they will prove to be conflict averse rather than of the "Kill them all, let God sort 'em out" school of thought. It's easy to talk trash from the comfort of a computer chair. The assholes sometimes filter into advanced training, but the numbers are low.

I can't name them, but I've probably been in class with over a 100 different people. Most classes are small, between 6 (literally) and 25, but Judicious Use of Deadly Force was classroom only and there might have been 80-90 in that class alone.

I didn't talk with everyone, but I have encountered exactly one asshole in advanced training. I kept quiet, but almost every time he opened his mouth, I thought "Asshole".

Training, particularly advanced training, tends to cure a lot of asshole-itis, but there are some for whom the maxim "You can't fix stupid" applies.

This perhaps puts me into the odd school of thought that while good training is good, more good training is better, and good advanced training is best, I'm opposed to training mandates.

[Starboard Tack]

51. Problem being no matter how much training

there's always that one asshole tagging along. Therein lies the problem.

[PavePusher]

52. But you can't treat everybody like an asshole...

just because of the one in fifty, or one hundred, or whatever the ratio is.

That will NOT get good results.

[Starboard Tack]

57. Of course not. So, how do we deal with the problem.

Obviously, from what you are saying, permits and training are not enough, because 1 in 50 is an asshole and that adds up to a lot of potential trouble. Also, mental stability is a huge issue. Sane people go off the rails every day and if they're armed that may not be too good for the rest of us.

[GreenStormCloud]

61. Far, far less than one in fifty.

You have already been shown the stats for Texas. Further, the ideas that a sane person is going to snap ans suddenly become a mass killer is not reality. Read the book: The Gift of Fear Real world mass killers give lots of warning signs that are generally ignored. Criminals who kill as part of another crime almost always have prior convictions and lengthy police records.

From the Texas state statistics site. In 2009 there were Active License Holders: 402,914 and exactly ONE murder conviction of a CHL holder. For the general population there were 406 murder convictions. Your annual chances of getting struck by lightning are greater than your chance of being murdered by a CHL holder.

[old mark]

44. Very very few of the people I know who carry guns regularly actually act like

that. Most of us do regularly keep our eyes open and avoid situations where we would be in danger. We really are not cowboys or idiots or looking for an excuse to shoot anyone. We simply want to be prepared to defend ourselves if the unavoidable need to do that should arise. As in any large group of human beings, there are always some people who behave as you describe...that is the HUMAN, not the GUN.
I respect your decision not to own a gun, and I thank you for keeping an open mind about those of us who do.

mark

[DWC]

55. Well Said n/t

[PavePusher]

53. "gun-flaunting assholes I run into"?

No offense intended, but where do you live that you have so many of these as to be a problem? What are they doing?

[Callisto32]

24. How was the Ayoob class?

As awesome as I think it would be?

[Kennah]

27. Overwhelming, and I don't use that term lightly.

Judicious Use of Deadly Force (JUDF) is an 18 hour classroom only lecture. Two very long, grueling days. However, I highly recommend it. The full week long LFI-1 class is about 40 hours, requires several hundred rounds as one does a lot of shooting, and it includes JUDF.

Massad Ayoob is, well, a character. To say he uses profanity freely would be an understatement. In part, I think he does it for shock effect to say, "Wake the fuck up! This is real shit people."

Privately, he seems very quiet and almost demure. When I wandered into the hotel, I looked over and saw him sitting in the lobby with a couple of people just quietly talking. I walked over, sat down on the couch next to him, and just listened to him for a few minutes. There was a pause in the conversation, he turned to me, extended his hand, and said, "Hi, I'm Mas." I think that's the real guy.

JUDF will likely disrupt your sleep for several nights, and after that first day I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat from a nightmare. I didn't throw up, but I was nauseous.

I know that has to be one of the oddest endorsements ever: Take this class, you might throw up!

[Callisto32]

30. He is on a podcast to which I (used to ) listen regularly.

He seems like a calm, intelligent and generally experienced person, there; so I suspect you are probably right.

It actually reminds me of my grandfather. He was very even-handed, and profanity beyond an occasional "damn" was almost totally non-existent. He was also a drill instructor at one point. His "welcome speech" was...frightening. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get the results you want, I guess.

EDIT: I suppose if a class that teaches you how to stay alive "in the gravest extreme" makes you nauseous, so be it.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

5. Yes.

And I am incredibly grateful for New York's strict gun laws.

Why you think I would be able to get a gun out of my purse when suddenly trapped in an elevator with two teenagers and their gun, or while my head was being bounced off a vestibule wall and my twisted glasses were smashing on the ground after being hit from behind, or while confronted with a lead pipe on the way to a friend's house, or trapped on a stairwell with a well-dressed young man and his knife, I do not know. Some sort of super-hero fantasy?

But the result would be that a thief who might not have had a gun would have ended up with a free one. Which is just stupid.

[armueller2001]

6. So because you chose not to

prepare for self defense after an assessment of your abilities, others should be denied that right to choose?

Yeah, a seat belt in my car might not save my life and might actually trap me inside a burning car... but I still make the choice to wear one as a safety precaution. Sounds like you need to take some measures to protect yourself or maybe moving is a better option for you.

Don't like guns? Don't buy one.

[WatsonT]

15. Better yet

if you don't feel like wearing your seatbelt for whatever reason don't simply not wear one, but rather campaign to have all seat belts banned for everyone.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Never carry a gun in your purse.

Always carry the gun on your body.

Dress so that you can carry a gun on you, concealed. There are guns that are easy to conceal.

Be aware of what is happening around you, including behind you. Criminals will almost always telegraph their intentions. They look for easy victims who are oblivious to their surroundings. If a situation looks to be developing you can slip your hand into the pocket that the gun is in and be ready.

Being able to defend yourself isn't a superhero fantasy, it merely takes a bit of learning and preparation. You don't have to be a victim.

Simply by being prepared and aware you will scare off most thugs without ever having to reach into you pocket. They are actually pretty good at reading body language that says that you are ready and body language that says that you are a soft victim.

[DWC]

67. Never say Never

There are purses specifically made for concealed carry. My wife has several. Easy weapon access plus designed to allow firing the gun without withdrawing it from the purse.

Semper Fi,

[Kennah]

68. I tend to eschew the words always and never

I eschew off body carry. I tried it for a while, but it wasn't for me.

IWB or waistpouch. I just don't get why it's a fannypack when I ain't wearing it over my ass.

[Kennah]

22. Guns are hammers, and few problems are nails

A gun won't fix every problem, but when you need it there is no substitute.

[Callisto32]

26. A very good way to express this idea, Kennah.

[Callisto32]

25. Having a gun is not magical. It doesn't allow you to defend against any attack, anywhere.

If someone ambushes you, it might not matter at all.

An airbag doesn't always save you either, but I like the option of hitting it instead of my steering wheel.

[Hoopla Phil]

45. Let me get this straight.

You are presupposing that the criminal always wins when attacking you? Why? Do you not have any situational awareness? Your suppositions simply do not pan out as the norm. This sub-forum has many instances listed where situations that you propose happened but the person legally carrying was ready for the incident because they are aware of their surroundings.

I personally was almost assaulted by two teenagers at a car wash once. Had words with them about their extremely loud music when they pulled into the stall next to me. Then had one come up to me and ask for a quarter. Was about to tell him to piss off when I realized I didn't see the other one (situational awareness) and jumped back and looked down my stall and sure enough, the other one was trying to come up behind me. My father was almost car jacked but wasn't. Why? Because he saw the guy making direct eye contact across the street walking right for him. Again, situational awareness.

Ladies have a great advantage by having a purse. You buy the right equipment - a purse that has a special pocket for the handgun. You can actually slip your hand inside and grasp that firearm without anyone knowing. Combing that with a hammerless revolver and you are set. Most companies that sell such purses have a replacement guarantee that if you every have to shoot through it is replaced for free.

People that take the time to get CHL's often get the right equipment and learn about situational awareness.

[DWC]

50. AQUART, have you personally suffered all of these attacks? n/t

[guitar man]

7. yes

In 1986 I was shot by an armed felon while I was unarmed. To this day, when I think I might need my pistol, I carry it.

[armueller2001]

10. Makes sense

but I choose to carry everywhere unless legally compelled not to. I remember a firearm instructor saying "Either guess right, or carry all the time". Unfortunately my crystal ball is not that accurate, and crime is not confined to bad neighborhoods. My family is worth the added inconvenience of carrying even when I think I might not need it.

[guitar man]

12. after I was shot

for a long time I carried everywhere, all the time. These days , I pretty much carry when I'm driving the van full of band instruments and equipment. It's a pretty fat target and we play a lot of gigs out in the sticks so I'm on the road in the middle of nowhere in the wee hours of the morning.

Going back and forth to work at my day job, not so much, the areas where I travel are pretty unlikely for an attack and I don't like leaving it in my pickup truck.

[DWC]

62. Critical point being

the choice of whether to carry or not is yours. So are the consequences of your choice. It is called Freedom.

Semper Fi,

[RSillsbee]

37. Good on ya

No we need to get you carrying when you don't think you'll need it because bigger than Texas that's when you will need it

[Karia]

8. Attempted rape/home invasion by a stranger

Given the practiced efficiency with which he grabbed me, I have no doubt he would taken away any weapon I tried to reach for, and most likely used it against me. I did fight him off and escaped unharmed. He was caught and he did go to prison.

Also, I had an agile, lock-picking, gate-dismantling toddler so no way was I going to have a gun in the house.

Good result. No gun.

[safeinOhio]

17. I'm all for law abiding citizens having the right to own and

possess a handgun. I'm against laws that make it easy for crooks and insane people to obtain handguns. So, I am for registration of handguns and laws that make it harder for restricted people to get handguns.
I lived in a state that at that time required a purchase permit to buy a handgun from a private party. As a law abiding citizen I purchased handguns, legally, with no problem. I now live in a state where I can buy a handgun at a garage sale with no questions asked.

[RSillsbee]

38. I find your empathy touching

I'm still not registering my handguns

[jeepnstein]

18. Sure...

I had a guy try to kill me with a knife while I was on duty. No, I didn't shoot him but would have if my lane of fire would have been clear. I've also been in a few fights where suspects tried to rip at my holster.

My Dad's business was another thing entirely. I've had one attempted robbery and witnessed an attempted murder while I was working there. Break-in's were common after hours. My house was burglarized once in a politically motivated intimidation attempt. It was burglarized another time by plain old thieves.

I don't have any problem with a lawful citizen being armed. It's their right and I'm sworn to uphold those rights.

[GreenStormCloud]

19. Yes. Strongarmed robbery, back in 1964.

I have been threatened a few times since then but the thug discovered that I was ready and retreated. Nothing violent happened. I often carry pepper spray as well as my guns. So far just producing the spray canister has been enough to scare off the threat. A few times I was in my car and was able to out drive the other person. In 1968ne guy chased me for about 20 miles until I lost him my making a bunch of turns in downtown San Antonio, TX. I have no idea why he was mad at me, I was and still am a careful driver.

[X_Digger]

20. Mugged in 96, skull cracked in 98, knife pulled on me in 07

I used to service telephone equipment substations all over texas and parts of the west, which took me into every good / bad / average part of every major town and plenty of backwater ones.

I have no problems with people choosing to arm themselves for self-defense.

[MatthewStLouis]

28. I have never been a victim. I believe in strong gun control laws...

I believe in strong gun control laws, but I also believe every responsible citizen has the right to protect themselves. Do I need an AK-47 or a gun with cop-killer bullets? No. Should every crazy nut job be allowed to own a gun? No.

I have always resented the way certain right wing gun organizations (NRA) like to paint all democrats with a broad brush, as if they all want to take your guns away. (It's pretty clear the NRA is purely a right-wing wedge-issue-creating political organization.)

In closing, (sorry for rambling), I have considered buying a gun myself (just to have around in case of the end of the world or something). As for carrying on a daily basis, I wouldn't even consider it; not with small children around. (Yeah, I'd definitely buy a gun safe if I ever brought a gun into the house).

[armueller2001]

29. Did you know that AK47's are fully automatic and have been

heavy regulated since 1934? They cost at least $15,000. Semi-automatic AK47 clones are available, but they are technologically no different than any other semiautomatic hunting rifle (one bang per trigger pull). They just look scary.

Armor piercing bullets have been illegal for decades.

I agree with you that "crazy nut jobs" should not be allowed to own guns, and that is why part of the background check when purchasing a firearm includes mental health issues.

[Kennah]

32. So should we ban teflon?

[Glassunion]

35. Those "cop killer" bullets of which you speak. They aren't.

In fact they were designed by the police for the police. They have never, not once killed a cop. They are illegal for anyone not in law enforcement to purchase.

They should call them "cop not-killer" bullets.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. I suggest you get some education on firearms

It would dispel some of the myths you have bought into and help you find the right kind of self defense weapon. Firearms are not one type fits all people and situations. Your focus on safety is an excellent thing. There are a number of secure but ready access storage options out there. Avoid trigger locks. They are not the right answer for securing a self defense weapon.

[Katya Mullethov]

33. Attempted carjacking , muggings , burglaries

Attempted that is . Didn't have to shoot any of them fortunately . 30 years of running a register and I havent been robbed but the neighbors have . To relinquish my rights , to bend just little more , because of the actions of these very same brigands and thieves is distasteful to say the least .

[Hangingon]

34. Ye. Armed robbery

I now have a CHL, carry and practice at the range.

[Hoopla Phil]

36. I was almost assaulted by two at a car wash once and my father was almost car jacked for

his corvette once. Both failed do to the 2A. My sister purchased a revolver and carried it illegally for a while as there was no CHL at the time. She fit the physical profile (dare I say that word) of a serial rapist in Dallas that was eventually caught.

[RSillsbee]

39. Depends on where you draw the line

In the late 90s someone attempted to mug me in the parking lot of my apartment. He made the best decision of his life (to run like Hell) about the time I cleared leather

[provis99]

40. I'm not sure:

A student in Bloomington with a concealed weapon permit came to my class, complained about me giving him an F in Poli Sci 103, and displayed the permit, and the gun in his backpack, while stating that anyone that pissed him off was likely to get shot.

I wasn't sure if this was a crime or not, but I changed his mark from an F to a D the same day.

[X_Digger]

41. Cool story, bro.

[mvccd1000]

42. So let me get this straight...

This 21+ year old guy sat down in your class, got out his wallet and showed you his ID (CCW), then opened his backpack and showed you his illegal gun (couldn't be legally carried on campus, right?), then threatened you, and you did nothing other than change his grade?

That IS a good story! Got any more you can tell us? :)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. Its a felony and should be reported

While I believe strongly in firearms for self defense including concealed carry, the bozos and nut cases needed to identified and have their firearms rights lifted.

[GreenStormCloud]

60. He has a CCW and carries the gun in his backpack?

You need to work on the details of your novelette. The gun would be in a waistband holster and he would lift his shirt, or in his pocket and he would let you see the print of it. Nobody carries in a backpack. It is way too slow to get to when you need it.

Showing you his ID is kind of odd since he is going to show the gun anyway.

Add in a crazy deranged look to the eyes and an evil snicker like in the cartoons.

Work on the details then try again.

[old mark]

43. Yes. My wife was raped when she was very young. I was robbed at knife point

when in my 30's, and I was the potential victim of a car jacking in my 50's, but the S&W revolver I took from my pocket caused the attackers to turn and run away...this was about 1PM, in mid town, about 2 blocks from the police station and court house.

My wife and I both have guns, and she has become an avid shooter.

mark

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. Yes, several times

The most memorable is when by wife double tapped a perp about to shoot me. I was fully engaged subduing his partner at the time whom I had already disarmed.

There have been attempted muggings/street confrontations. During some of those a display of a firearm was enough to convince the perp to go away. Other times I have fought them off. It is not a gentle process, but I am not exactly a nice guy when in those circumstances.

One of the things that concerns me about the antis is that while some are well motivated, in their zeal to disarm us all, they leave the weaker to be preyed upon. Today I teach martial arts and shooting. I do the latter almost exclusively to GLBTs and women. You can not bash or rape a prepared and armed person.

[Oneka]

54. 14 months ago

My mother in law and her husband were shot and killed.
My wife was with them and was also shot. Thankfully she lived through it, and had only a minor wound.

I regularly carried previous to this tragedy and still do.

There are those who would say that things like this happen so infrequently that carrying a firearm for your own protection is not necessary
or even prudent...

I disagree.

[Hoopla Phil]

66. I am sorry for you loss. n/t

[DWC]

56. WHY I POSTED THIS THREAD

In a perfect world, violent crime would not exist.

Ours is not a perfect world.

Having actually lived through the physical and psychological trauma of violent crime, personally or to loved ones, is a life experience that simply can not be fully explained to or shared with others. Few survivors will ever allow themselves to be caught without the tools they personally think may be necessary to defend themselves against a future attack.

I have read every response in this thread and, with one possible exception, every respondent who has been a victim of violent crime supports the individual's right to armed self-defense. We chose to never be a victim again.

Hopefully, those of you who have not been subject to such horror will learn from those of us who have.

Semper Fi,

[Euromutt]

58. Both myself and my wife

In my case, a couple of simple assaults from assholes with attitude problems, both in my home country of the Netherlands. While I didn't suffer any major physical injury in either case, both undermined my trust in my fellow citizens, none of whom lifted a finger to help me, called the cops, or volunteered to be a witness. In one case, a bystander actually had the fucking gall to step up to me after the assailant had left (dragged off by his friends before someone called the cops, not that there was actually any risk of that) to lecture me on how I really should learn to avoid such people. Frankly, I wish I'd had the presence of mind at the time to tell him to go and fuck himself, because he'd just stood and watched while the only person who actually tried to intervene was my then-girlfriend (all 5'4" of her).

Both incidents certainly shaped my thinking, to the effect that even when you're being assaulted in public, and you're clearly not the aggressor, you can't rely on others to do anything to help you. It played a large role in my decision that I was never going to be one of those assholes who "didn't want to get involved," even if my level of involvement consisted of no more than running to the nearest pay phone and calling 112 (the European equivalent of 911) and presenting myself to the responding cops as a witness.

My wife managed to defend herself from a would-be rapist in the early 1990s. At the time (long before we met) she was working in a frame shop in the south-east San Francisco Bay Area, Fremont or Hayward or thereabouts, and she was minding the store by herself during lunch hour. The store was in a strip mall, fairly narrow, with a waist-level counter running the full width of the place. This seedy-looking guy comes in, and starts browsing stuff in the racks, and he's constantly trying to get C. (my wife) to come out from behind the counter ("Can you show me these?" waving vaguely at rack). Alarm bells are going off in C.'s head, and she makes sure she keeps the counter between the guy and herself. After a while, the guy evidently decides he's not going to get her to come out, pulls a knife and tells her "Show me your titties and I won't rape you." At this point, C. pulls out a pepper spray she got as a gift from one of her brothers who lived in Washington state (pepper spray was illegal in California at the time) and makes it clear to him that if he tries to cross the counter, she'll let him have it. After a quick assessment of the situation, the guy cuts and runs. As he's driving off, C. notices his license plates are duct-taped over. Well, she calls 911, and being an art student, she sketches the guy's face while she waits for the cop to arrive. Cop arrives, takes her statement, refuses to confiscate her pepper spray when she volunteered it (let alone charge her with illegally possessing it), and as they're finishing up, radio traffic indicates the would-be perp attacked another shop assistant a mile or two up the road. By all accounts, the guy was never caught, and in my personal opinion, it would have better all round if C. had been able to put a few hollow-points into the SOB on the spot.

[jpak]

59. Yeah- some asshole shot my two cats on my doorstep when I lived in Texas

law abiding gun owner

not

[PavePusher]

63. Duh.

Did you report this crime?

[jpak]

64. I didn't figure it out until many years later

On the day it happened, my girlfriend called me a lunch time, told me my girl kitty had her leg hanging by a piece of flesh and she could not find our boy cat - who didn't show up until many days later.

The vet could not figure out how the injury occurred - the femur was shattered - the poor thing has a severe limp for the rest of her life.

Many years later, boy cat was at the vets in Maine and we found a large lump just under his skin.

The vet opened the skin and out popped a .25 cal bullet.

I knew then what happened

Some asshole shot my cats for fun on my doorstep with a .25 cal pistol.

the motherfucker can burn in hell

yup

[armueller2001]

65. Ban cats.

It's the only way we'll be safe.