12 year old girl dies after rifle discharges

[onehandle]

12-year-old Katie Hipsher was cleaning her shotgun when it accidentally discharged, and killed her. Her father was in the next room, heard that gun fire, ran into the room and found his daughter dead.

The father says since the accident, he hasn't slept, he can't eat, and he's cried so much his eyes are sore.

Craig Hipsher says Katie was his only daughter, and they were like best friends. They would hunt, fish, and do just about everything together. He's wondering how he'll move on and says he should have died first.

"It's not supposed to be that way. I'm 51-years old, my daughter was 12. I shouldn't be burying a 12-year-old daughter," Hipsher says.

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/12-year-old-girl-dies-after-rifle-discharges-115690924.html

[MannyGoldstein]

1. She died to save us from Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin

Oh so I read on DU.

[PavePusher]

3. I'm sure you can cite that. Or something... n/t

[onehandle]

5. And Clinton.

His image is often up there too. I've seen the bumper sticker. I'm sure there's a version with Obama as well.

[Callisto32]

8. Your post is pointless tripe.

I just thought you might like to know.

[deutsey]

2. Tragic

Shouldn't the first step in cleaning a weapon be to make sure it isn't loaded?

I'm not saying this in a condemning way...it's just that this is the second story like this where a younger person was cleaning their gun and it discharged, killing them or their parent.

:evilfrown:

[Callisto32]

7. Absolutely.

First step should be "responsible adult" makes sure there is no ammunition around...

Unfortunately, I don't know if it would have helped, here. Self inflicted shootings with long guns are rarely accidents/negligence...

Like I said below, sad.

[Callisto32]

4. Sad.

I could comment further, but you would just say I don't care about the children or something...


Unrec for emotional appeal/cornering.

[Tesha]

9. unrec? for what?

Much of what's posted on DU is emotional - do you unrec just about all posts?

Please, at least be honest here, you unrec this because it puts guns in a bad light.

[Callisto32]

24. There is no policy discussion here.

Yes, I do tend to unrec "blotter" posts in this forum, no matter the side.

[Atypical Liberal]

6. Tragic anecdote.

It's a tragic anecdote, but the fact of the matter is accidental firearm deaths are at a 100 year low. Accidental shootings in general, according to the CDC, account for less injuries annually than poisonings.

It's tragic that Katie Hipsher didn't follow basic firearm safety rules while cleaning her shotgun, but the vast majority of firearm owners have no problems with safely owning and operating their firearms every year.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. A dead child is not an "anecdote"

The gungeon loves to use the word "anecdote" lately. Someone was throwing it around just the other day.

She was probably a lovely young lady just trying to do things all kids do, and was certainly cherished by her dad.

Anecdote, my ass.

[Atypical Liberal]

11. Sorry, but yes it is.

You cannot look at single events and draw conclusions from them. No matter how heart-wrenching that single event might be. No matter how lovely the victim was, or how young, or how cherished they were by their dad. Single events are anecdotes.

If you start to make policy decisions based on the emotional aspect of a rare occurrence, that is bad policy.

You have to look at the DATA.

Go to the CDC's website and roll your own query using their WISQARS tool.

Accidental firearm deaths are at a 100 year low. Now this is partly due to increases in medical technology and urgent care responders. But even the CDC's data for the last decade shows that accidental firearm deaths have never amounted to more than 824 a year. While individually each of these accidents were tragic, when you consider that there are 40-80 million firearm owners, you can see that this is not very significant statistically.

In fact, over the same time period, more people died accidentally from bicycle accidents than from firearms!

We can certainly look at Katie's death as tragic. But it is still an anecdote, and not indicative of any trend in firearm accidents.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. It's the amount of single events that's disturbing.

Katie was one of many. To goddamned many.

To consider her a mere anecdote is beyond insensitive.

I see her as a living, loving human being, not some stat that doesn't add up to a "trend" in your world.

[Atypical Liberal]

16. As I said.

As I said, yes, individually, these are tragic events.

But I'm not here to discuss singular events. I'm here to discuss firearm policy. I have no doubt that the article was posted in an attempt to influence the debate on firearm policy, specifically by making an appeal to emotion, and obviously it worked on you.

Yes, Katie was one of "many" firearm accidents that will happen this year. If this year is like the past 10 years, she will be one of some 800 people who die from a firearm accident. Each one was tragic.

But that is 800 out of 40-80 million firearm owners.

To consider her a mere anecdote is beyond insensitive.

I see her as a living, loving human being, not some stat that doesn't add up to a "trend" in your world.

Then, quite frankly, you have no business discussing rational policy decisions. If you are going to get worked up emotionally instead of rationally considering the while statistical picture, you've got no business discussing firearm policy.

Good science is about emotional detachment.

[TheCowsCameHome]

23. So,

You want to talk firearm policy, I want to comment on the tragic death of a little girl.

It appears we have nothing in common on this thread.

Enjoy your day.

[Atypical Liberal]

26. But what is your motive?

You want to talk firearm policy, I want to comment on the tragic death of a little girl.

The fact that you post about the "tragic death of a little girl" in a firearm forum is a pretty good indicator that you are using this as a reason to advocate restrictions on firearms.

If you are not posting this as a reason to restrict firearms, then I apologize.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. I didn't choose what forum

this story was posted on. It just happened to be under "guns", where the original poster placed it.

Reading this story is absolutely heart-wrenching. The apple of a Dad's eye is gone forever.

As a parent and grandparent of six children around that age I can't imagine what this poor father is going through.

If that's being too emotional, so be it. I do not make apologies for doing so.

Other than to grieve for this now-deceased young lady and all who loved her, I have no motive.

[Atypical Liberal]

28. My apologies

I thought you were the original poster.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Call me a cynic...

But I would be seriously looking into the possibility of a suicide or murder.

This was a shotgun. A LONG gun. Called such for a reason. It was loaded. It was cocked. The safety was off. It was pointed at her head. The trigger was pulled.

What part of this sounds like an 'accident' to you?

[Euromutt]

35. If it's a model without a firing pin block...

...which, I understand, is not unusual with shotguns, she might have accidentally slammed the butt on the floor, thus causing it to discharge.

Hence the term "cruiser safe / cruiser ready" for a shotgun kept with a magazine loaded but the chamber empty (i.e. Condition Two); it's to prevent the weapon from discharging in the event the patrol car got sideswiped or went over a bump at high speed.

[cleanhippie]

21. How myopic of you.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Not anymore.

When discussing public policy, which I assume this was posted to drive a discussion of, anecdotes (singular examples not representative of a trend, often an appeal to emotion) are of no use.

If one wanted to create a memorial for this child, this wasn't the place to do it.

[russ1943]

33. Some actual known facts

Unintentional death and injury are but one important facet of the total gun problem in this country. The long term downward trend of unintentional gun DEATHS is, as you posted, at least in part due to increases in medical technology and urgent care responders.
The combined total of unintentional death and injury however, has recently (most recent statistics available) been.............. INCREASING.

Year non fatal fatal combined total
2006 14,678 + 642 = 15,320
2007 15,698 613 16,311
2008 17,215 * 17,215
2009 18,610 * 18,610
*WISQARS has statistics available thru 2007 for fatalities & thru 2009 for non-fatal. When the fatalities are determined and made available for 2008 and 2009 the combined total will obviously be increased.

Whether or not gun death and injury is more or less than some other category like poisonings or bicyclers is irrelevant in a forum titled “GUNS”. If your concern is the number of deaths and injuries form poisonings or bicycling you might consider initiating a forum with one of those titles.

[RSillsbee]

14. Anecdote

plural anecdotes also an·ec·dota \ˌa-nik-ˈdō-tə\
Definition of ANECDOTE
: a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident
See anecdote defined for English-language learners »
Examples of ANECDOTE
He told us all sorts of humorous anecdotes about his childhood.
<told us once again that anecdote about the dog and the bike>
Like many Jesuits who then ate most of their meals in refectories, McKenzie was a master raconteur with endless anecdotes, stories, and one-liners. —Margaret O'Brien Steinfels, Commonweal, 11 Sept. 2009


And here I am throwing it around again

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. I'm not surprised.

[WatsonT]

20. Actually a single anything is the very definition of 'anecdote'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. How elementary, my dear Watson.

:rofl:

[Bonhomme Richard]

12. "12-year-old Katie Hipsher was cleaning her shotgun"

That says it all. I have no problem with a 12 year old having a shotgun but kids will be kids, are easily distracted, and she had no business cleaning that shotgun unsupervised.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lovette]

18. My question is:

Why was the gun even loaded during cleaning??

[Vinee]

25. why the fuck did this asshole leave a 12 year old alone with a shotgun? He is negligent.

You do not leave children alone with firearms. period. he needs to go to jail now.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. There are legitimate shooting sports, that can involve a 12 year old.

Most are capable of handling a firearm safely.

This one wasn't.

[WatsonT]

19. That's it; ban 'em!

No more children for anyone until this madness ends.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Gun loaded itself. Removed it's own safety. Pointed itself at her head. And pulled it's own trigger.

That's one amazing shotgun.

Glad it isn't in my collection.

[Euromutt]

37. Or as I noted above, it might not have had a firing pin block and been dropped on its butt

I've been given to understand quite a few models of shotgun--including the Remington 870, which has to got be the best-selling pump-action in the country--don't have firing pin blocks. I can see how the girl might have dropped the gun's butt onto the floor, with the barrel happening to point at her head at the moment of impact.

I'm speculating, of course, since I don't have all the details, but we'll just have to see what the coroner thinks.

[Starboard Tack]

34. Was this posted on the this forum?

Or did it get moved here by the mods? I think the latter. Anyway, as tragic as this is, it does little to further arguments for or against gun legislation or the amending of the 2nd Amendment. We need intelligent discussion here. Not sensationalism.

[LAGC]

36. Glad to Unrec your biased post.

At least you didn't completely hit-and-run this time, I see you did make a pithy reply to the first responder.

[old mark]

38. And the anti's celebrate yet another death. What a great bunch of people you are.....nt