LA Times: U.S. gun-tracing operation let firearms into criminal hands

[friendly_iconoclast]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns-mexico-20110304,0,3428784,print.story

U.S. gun-tracing operation let firearms into criminal hands

A federal operation aimed at tracing weapons to Mexican drug cartels lost track of hundreds, including two guns found at the scene of a Border Patrol agent's killing in Arizona.

By Kim Murphy, Los Angeles Times

6:13 PM PST, March 3, 2011


A federal operation that allowed weapons from the U.S. to pass into the hands of suspected gun smugglers so they could be traced to the higher echelons of Mexican drug cartels has lost track of hundreds of firearms, many of which have been linked to crimes, including the fatal shooting of a Border Patrol agent in December.

The investigation, known as Operation Fast and Furious, was conducted even though U.S. authorities suspected that some of the weapons might be used in crimes, according to a variety of federal agents who voiced anguished objections to the operation.

Many of the weapons have spread across the most violence-torn states in Mexico, with at least 195 linked to some form of crime or law enforcement action, according to documents obtained by the Center for Public Integrity and The Times.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the operation, said that 1,765 guns were sold to suspected smugglers during a 15-month period of the investigation. Of those, 797 were recovered on both sides of the border, including 195 in Mexico after they were used in crimes, collected during arrests or intercepted through other law enforcement operations....

[damntexdem]

1. Hmm, I wonder whether they'll try this approach next with nuclear weapons.

;-)

[MyrnaLoy]

2. 1,765 guns were sold to people

who took them to Mexico with or without the ATF. This only proves what most of us knew, guns from the US are making their way to Mexico. All the ATF is trying to do is discover the routes and then shutting them down. Of course the NRA and the "any and all the guns" crowd only wants you to focus of the letters "ATF". The truth, and bottom line, guns from stores in the United States are killing people in Mexico. That is the ultimate truth.

Can you answer with just a yes or no answer? Did the ATF purchase any guns and drive them across the border?

[Hoopla Phil]

6. What this proves is that FFL's will refuse to sell guns to people they suspect are straw purchasers

UNLESS the ATF tells them to make the sale.

You've asked a carefully worded question that is often call "cute lawyer tricks" to exclude culpability. The fact is the guns would not have been sold if not for the direction of the ATF.

You may correct your ignorance by following this link and reading all the documented evidence.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x387321

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[X_Digger]

3. Fecal material approaching air transitional device. n/t

[MyrnaLoy]

4. Let's try this

1. Did the ATF purchase these guns?

2. did the ATF load these weapons in a vehicle and deliver them to bad guys in Mexico?

3. did the ATF set up an operation to find out where these purchases in the US were going?

4. Did bad people buy guns in the US and smuggle them to Mexico?

Yes or No answers only please.

[X_Digger]

5. Why should you get to set the terms, eh?

How about..

1. Was the ATF watching as straw purchasers bought guns? Yes, one person standing beside a straw purchaser was an ATF agent.

2. Did the ATF tell dealers who would have otherwise denied the sale to make the sale anyway? Yes, in both Phoenix and Houston, we have dealers who called the BATFE, giving names and license plates of suspects' vehicles, and were told to sell guns to the straw purchasers.

3. Did ATF supervisors disregard agents' concerns that 'someone was going to get killed' and refuse to allow the agents to interdict the weapons shipments on this side of the border? Yes.

[MyrnaLoy]

9. so you

can't answer the yes or no questions I take it? Believe me though, I do know why you don't want to answer, I understand. it's painful when you're wrong.

[X_Digger]

10. Did they or did they not direct sales to suspected straw purchasers?

It doesn't matter whether or not they actually paid for them.

Would a cop be responsible for allowing a rape to happen if he saw it in progress and stopped a concerned citizen from stepping in to stop it?

[Hoopla Phil]

7. So, did P,G and E

Make anyone drill water wells?

Drink water from contaminated water wells?


Cute lawyer tricks are used to divert from culpability, nothing more.

The fact is, had ATF not DIRECTED the FFL's to go through with the sale the guns would not have gone to Mexico. The FFL's followed the law and would not have sold those guns. This only proves that the FFL's did the right thing, the ATF however. . .