The Truth Behind Guns in Mexico

[Hoopla Phil]

You've probably seen or read the news reports about how 90% of the illegal guns in Mexico come from the United States. These stories are usually accompanied by video footage of numerous, menacing-looking guns on display supposedly sold by American gun-runners.

You may have wondered why these firearms haven't been traced back to the dealers who sold them. Surely, the dealers would be arrested spurring a media frenzy, right?

Well, it turns out that only 17% of the illegal guns in Mexico are traceable back to the United States. Of those, many, or perhaps all, were sold illegally with the full knowledge and approval of the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives - BATFE).
http://www.libertybelles.org/articles/gunsinmexico.html

Not sure where the 17% figure comes from, most are figuring it to be 12%.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lawodevolution]

2. Anti gun politician: "Now that we are using the 90% number we need to make it a reality

Get ATF on the phone!"

[jpak]

3. Straight from another bizarre RW website

yup

[lawodevolution]

4. Anything and anyone who holds a different view from you must be a big bad "right winger"

[Hoopla Phil]

5. Care to even attempt to dispute the facts? Nope, Nope.

you're a laugh riot.

:rofl:

Yup

yup

[flamin lib]

6. Can't cite the post but someone here linked to a study that broke down

the sources of illegal guns in Mexico.

As I recall there seems to four major sources: China (same guys that supply chemistry) for full auto AKs, grenades, RPGs etc.

Mexican military and police armories.

The Pentagon for full auto M4s (some with grenade launchers), grenades, claymores and the like although it isn't known how the weapons got to Mexico. Perhaps a re-sale by recipients of U.S. military aid? (Check with Nicolas Cage aka The Lord of War).

The remainder of the guns *could* have been purchased in the US, largely semi auto handguns and AR/AK semi autos. Of those only 20% could be traced; i.e. serial #altered, not acquired through regular ATF regulated channels or some such. Of that 20% more than 8 in 10 came from US gun dealers.

It is not possible to determine how many of these weapons came from which source or what route they took to get to the Cartel except for that 20% of guns that might have been acquired in the U.S. and were traceable.

Draw your own conclusions.

Please note, I'm commenting from memory of the study and these are the impressions I took from it.

[X_Digger]

7. 12-17-34% depending on various sources / which year..

Hard to get it all in one place, but you have the wikileaks cable (China via Guatemala for the full auto AK, rpgs, grenades, etc), GAO report for the traced US guns (~12-17% and no breakdown of US .mil / police sales v civilian ones), the BATFE testimony before congress that puts the number somewhere around 34% (this is the one quoted by factcheck.org).

What you don't find support for is the "90%" misquoted by administration officials and then the media, or the 60,000 quoted by wapo, based on misinterpreting a statement made by Calderon in April of 2009, I believe.

What I'd like to see is an updated GAO report- the latest one we have has 2009. (Bloomberg's MAIG apparently got access to the 2010 numbers, and they're in line w/ 2009.)

[flamin lib]

8. I think that 90% number is the 87% of the 20% that the BATF&E could

trace. Whether the intent was to mislead is beyond my ability to ascertain so I won't comment.

Still, 80% of the guns that could have been purchased in the U.S. were untraceable. I suspect that a small number were sales by non-licensed individuals that involved no intent to sell across the border. I'm highly suspect of the guns with obliterated serial numbers. If I were a straw buyer intent on moving a lot of guns at a very nice profit and I knew the guns could be traced to the store I purchased them from and thence to me via the in-store records I'd certainly do my best to break that trail of custody.

I can't know but I have a suspension. Why else grind the serial # off?

[X_Digger]

9. *nod* I made a chart of it some time back..