A CCW story, my friends conversion to a passive guy!

[VoteProgressive]

Interesting story about CCW and a big impact it made on me and a reason I got mine.

A guy I know, lets call him Sam, was sort of a uptight guy. Especially when driving.

He would honk when cut off and flip off people who reacted to his honk. Sort of a jerk on the road.

After he got his CCW about 3 years ago, I have never seen him do it again. He just does not react. And the reason why is that he does not want a confrontation. He does not want to honk at a guy who stops and then have to deal with this guy because he knows he has a gun and does not want to be the initiator of a gun use. It was an amazing change.

And one weekend we were walking in the power and light district in KC and he bumped into a guy and my friend said "excuse me". The other guy said "watch where you are going asshole!" The old Sam would have confronted the guy and maybe started a fight. The CCW Sam just kept walking. He has admitted the CCW has turned him into a passive guy. It was a good change.

My instructor said, during class, that you should do everything you can to avoid a conflict. I have noticed this in many CCW holders.

I think the image in the media is these CCW holders are tough guy assholes. I have seen just the opposite.

[GreenStormCloud]

1. Carrying has certainly made me conflict adverse. N/T

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[rrneck]

6. Try

breathing into a paper bag. That should help.

[onehandle]

4. Wow. I guess Heinlein was right. 'An armed society is a...

...snoooooore....zzz...'

[Straw Man]

18. Thank you for your substantive contribution...

...to the discussion. If we should ever need your opinion again, we'll wake you.

[cleanhippie]

21. I know it bores you when you cannot find facts to fit your talking points.

And I like it when you are bored, it shows your dishonesty on the subject.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Well, i just moved from California to Arizona

One of the things I really liked about Arizona is their gun laws, especially after spending my life in the California "nanny State". I love the freedom i have here with my guns but I've got to tell you, the Repukes in Arizona are over the top. The new CCW rules in Arizona seem to be, if you are wearing enough clothing to conceal a weapon, you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon. I'm sorry but that is just nuts! You don't have to have any training in the use and safe handeling of your weapon. You don't have to know how to shoot it or even how to engage the safety or check for an unfired round in the chamber. You don't have to know anything about the legal ramifications of useing your weapon, you just have to A. have the financial wherwithal to buy a gun, and B. wear enough clothing to conceal it.

Now, add this to the almost daily story of some idiot shooting up a Taco Bell because his Burritos were no longer on sale and you really have to wonder what the fuck the Republicans in Phoenix are thinking. Oh shit, I'm sorry, I put Republicans and thinking in the same sentance.

This move has been an interesting transition for me. I have long thought that the California gun laws are over the top in their restrictions. Hell, if it looks like a scary weapon, you can't have it and unless you are good buddies with one of the power elite, good luck getting a CCW. Then I come to Arizona and I can drive down to the local sporting goods store and buy a 50 cal BMG without any proof that I can handle the gun, know the laws about useing the gun or even have an understanding of the damage this gun can do. All i need is the financial ability to pay for it.

This is not going to end well.

[Name removed]

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[VoteProgressive]

9. I agree the training is a joke in Kansas also.....

The test was open book / instructor led and a waste of time. Everyone got 100%. The shooting test is basically "shoot until you pass".

I agree there needs to be a standardized test but the NRA will never allow it.

So there are a lot of shootings / crimes with in AZ weekly?

[YllwFvr]

14. No test at all in my state

Ten minute background check and out the door you go

[Name removed]

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[mvccd1000]

12. A couple of points...

1) Welcome to AZ!

2) AZ has always allowed "open carry," meaning any non-prohibited possessor can openly carry a loaded firearm nearly anywhere in the state. I'm curious; why do you feel that training and a permission slip from the government should be required to don a jacket?

3) In reading 2 daily newspapers and 3 local TV station newsfeeds on their websites, I somehow missed these stories of daily shootouts. Can you post some links?

4) I'm guessing you're talking about a .50 cal bolt action or semi-automatic rifle, not an M2 machine gun... what is your issue with the availability of such a rifle? (Besides shooting down airliners?)

[rl6214]

19. Seriously, how about a link or links to cite this:

"add this to the almost daily story of some idiot shooting up a Taco Bell because his Burritos were no longer on sale "

I guess my previous post got axed, I must have said something that offended someone. So how about it, are you going to back this one up or did you think you could slide it in without andyone noticing? Ignorance or intentional lie?

[PavePusher]

23. Pearl-clutching, much?

1. "The new CCW rules in Arizona seem to be, if you are wearing enough clothing to conceal a weapon, you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon. I'm sorry but that is just nuts!"

Nuts just like Vermont and Alaska? Nuts just like the states soon to have similar laws? Nuts.... how?


2. "Now, add this to the almost daily story of some idiot shooting up a Taco Bell because his Burritos were no longer on sale..."

Cite to evidence, or you are making it up.



3. "Then I come to Arizona and I can drive down to the local sporting goods store and buy a 50 cal BMG without any proof that I can handle the gun..."

So, exactly like any other Civil Right, no proof of training required, right? Unless, of course, you can show me proof of your First, Fourth and Thirteenth Amendment training... And by the way, no state requires any such proof prior to buying a gun. Please cite to where it's been a problem.


4. "This is not going to end well."

Ah, right, blood in the streets, any day now, any day... amIright? Careful with that hand-wringing, you're going to sprain something.




If you don't like Arizona, I'm sure you can find your way back to Cali easliy enough. You did leave a trail of breadcrumbs, amIright?

[gravity556]

27. re:Well, i just moved from California to Arizona

One of the things I really liked about Arizona is their gun laws, especially after spending my life in the California "nanny State".

Welcome to AZ! Bet it feels good not to have to ask permission to scratch your ass, eh?


I love the freedom i have here with my guns but I've got to tell you, the Repukes in Arizona are over the top. The new CCW rules in Arizona seem to be, if you are wearing enough clothing to conceal a weapon, you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon.
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Aww, you started off strong, but your shoelace must have been untied. We'll let a little stumble slide-after all, catching that first bit of free exercise of rights can make you a little light headed. :)
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I'm sorry but that is just nuts! You don't have to have any training in the use and safe handeling of your weapon. You don't have to know how to shoot it or even how to engage the safety or check for an unfired round in the chamber. You don't have to know anything about the legal ramifications of useing your weapon, you just have to A. have the financial wherwithal to buy a gun, and B. wear enough clothing to conceal it.
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Whoa! Seems like your shoes are on the wrong feet in addition to the shoelace thing. See, we like our freedoms here in AZ, and with that freedom comes this crazy thing called "personal responsibility", wherein the individual is expected to do things for himself. If you're going to enjoy the freedom to carry, you also need to accept the responsibility to learn how to safely handle, carry and store your weapon, as well as staying abreast of the laws pertaining to the carry of firearms and (heaven forbid the need)the use of deadly force. Now you can take a class, or if you have any genuinely knowledgable friends, have them teach you. If you aren't familiar with your weapon and the laws pertaining to it, then personal responsibility dictates that you not carry. Like you shouldn't solo skydive if you don't know how to work the parachute.

Sure, there are some folks out carrying that have no idea what they are doing. These people are assholes and should be avoided. You can ID these folks by the Taurus Judge (but it shoots shotgun shells! her derp!) and fanny pack. We have plenty of instructors, ranges, competitions and friendly shooters-there's no excuse for being ignorant.
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Now, add this to the almost daily story of some idiot shooting up a Taco Bell because his Burritos were no longer on sale and you really have to wonder what the fuck the Republicans in Phoenix are thinking. Oh shit, I'm sorry, I put Republicans and thinking in the same sentance.
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You know, I've lived here my whole life. I don't think that I have EVER seen a story like that, never mind seeing one "almost daily". To what end did you pull this bit of data from your bum? A shot at humor? A failed attempt to bolster your argument that AZ's gun laws are too liberal? Seriously, WTF? Granted if you can pull up links (you said almost daily, so say, 4 days a week for a period of 3 weeks), I'll owe you an apology. As for the passage of our Constitutional Carry bill, it was indeed sponsored by republicans and signed by a republican governor (napolitano vetoed it the previous 3 years), but it was AZ gun owners without regard to party writing letters and making phone calls in support of the bill.
From the Arizona Constituion
The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men. Art. II, § 26 (enacted 1912)

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This move has been an interesting transition for me. I have long thought that the California gun laws are over the top in their restrictions. Hell, if it looks like a scary weapon, you can't have it and unless you are good buddies with one of the power elite, good luck getting a CCW. Then I come to Arizona and I can drive down to the local sporting goods store and buy a 50 cal BMG without any proof that I can handle the gun, know the laws about useing the gun or even have an understanding of the damage this gun can do. All i need is the financial ability to pay for it.
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What "proof of competency" with a firearm would you want them to require? A note from your mom? A birthmark in the shape of a butterfly? Again, that whole "personal responsibility" thing rears its ugly head. The gun store figures that if you're willing to drop the 6500 bucks on a .50, you've got a place to shoot it and money with which to buy ammo for it ($2.50 a round), plus money for the optics (figure another 2 grand. recoil from a .50 will demolish most scopes), they're willing to take your money.

They aren't going to worry about it any more than a motorcycle salesman is going to worry about selling that 15 thousand dollar liter bike to the 18 year old flat hat idiot who's never ridden a street bike before. It's YOU who's going to be responsible if YOU break the law or injure someone. YOU are the responsible party. It will be YOU sitting in jail, YOUR money going for lawyers-it's not the fault of the clerk at the gun shop, nor is it the fault of the legislature for passing a law that was OVERWHELMINGLY supported-in the event that you decide to carry. Only a fool carries without understanding that completely. You are responsible for knowing how to safely operate your weapon, for knowing the laws regarding where you can and cannot carry and in what situations you can or cannot use deadly force.

If you can't handle the freedom, you're free to not engage in it. You are not free to tell me that I cannot. If you want things more like California, by all means, go back. Don't bring it here.
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This is not going to end well.
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Yes, because in the 7 months that Constitutional carry has been law, AZ taco bells have run red with the blood of babies and nuns nearly every day...:/

[Taitertots]

11. Most of the people I've heard say otherwise don't CCW and are not close to people who do

Everyone I know would do just about anything to avoid having to shoot anyone. Even if that means running away.

[YllwFvr]

13. Excellent post

I didn't have an aggressive personality before, but I do avoid arguments if I can now. I think its this way for many.

[GreenStormCloud]

15. It is a well-known law of nature.

Animals that have little to no armament, (No horns, claws, fangs, etc.) will fight each other very readily. They can't really hurt each other.

Animals that are heavily armed have a bunch of demonstration activities that they go through to resolve the conflict short of actual battle. When two tigers fight, one dies and the other is crippled. So it is strongly to their advantage not to fight.

Most humans seem to understand this intuitively.

[spin]

17. Good point. (n/t)

[Starboard Tack]

29. You can say that again

I never argue with a guy with a gun. Probably that's why I've never been shot. Unfortunately, I love to argue/debate, but I just put my Ist Amendment rights on hold out of a sense of self preservation.

[spin]

16. A concealed weapons permit has made me much more polite ...

in my personal life and definitely in my driving. I used to give people the bird frequently when they angered me while I was driving. I never do that anymore.

My son in law says that it has made him far less aggressive in general.

My daughter attracted the attentions of a stalker a year ago. Before my son in law got his carry permit he would have simply solved the problem by beating the crap out of the stalker. Since he didn't want to lose his carry license, he decided to let the law handle the situation and my daughter got a restraining order.

It was a trail in patience for my son and law and also myself as the stalker was a real pain in the ass with the attitude that the law would never arrest him. My daughter didn't really fear the fool as she also has a carry permit and would have simply shot him if he became aggressive. But he showed up within everywhere she went and constantly was well within the distance he was supposed to stay from her.

Eventually the stalker managed to get "cuffed and stuffed" by the police and had to spend several weekends in jail, which appears to have taught him a lesson.

He would have learned his lesson much faster if my son in law and myself didn't value our concealed weapons permits so much.

[TheWraith]

20. That happened to me when I read the Army Field Manual on hand-to-hand combat.

Afterwards, when I was practicing some of the moves they described, I realized how relatively easy it would be for someone of my size to kill a man with my bare hands. Never even pushed or gotten into a confrontation with someone since then.

[VoteProgressive]

22. Proof you are a nice and decent man! nt

[Bold Lib]

24. When you know that you have the ability to use lethal force at

your side, it makes it much easier to just walk away.

[gravity556]

25. It's a huge responsibility.

And carrying a gun means you have to take MORE shit-not NO shit. But according to the anti-carry fools, the mere presence of a firearm will instantly turn even the most mild mannered individual into an inbred, toothless, inarticulate moron who is foaming at the mouth looking for some reason to shoot someone-probably a minority, since guns also apparently make people racist in addition to violent.

My favorite is the "Well, if I carried a gun, I'd be shooting people left and right. I'd whip it out and wave it in people's faces so I could cut in line at Starbuck's! The first time my asshole neighbor's dog took a crap in my yard, I'd shoot it in the face! And that's why I don't think anyone should be allowed to have a gun!" projection. Because the argument of "Well, if I had a gun I'd do all kinds of bad stuff, ergo everyone else must have these homicidal and sociopathic urges as well. And since I can't imagine NOT doing those things, you shouldn't have a gun either!"

[Name removed]

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[Starboard Tack]

28. It is an interesting story

but it seems kinda extreme in terms of therapy for anger management. Passive isn't always good and in psychological parlance often goes with aggressive. I sincerely hope it turns out OK for him in the long run, but you must admit it is somewhat disturbing to think that the answer to handling a loose cannon is to have him wear one.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. It is a common experience.

Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. You know that if you ever pull it out your life will change forever, even if you don't shoot. Further, if you do shoot, then you life REALLY changes, in lots of bad ways. None of us want that. So we attempt to avoid situations where conflict may escalate.

In July of 2009 I was involved in an auto accident, other driver 100% at fault, no serious injuries, I was badly bruised but nothing broken. Other driver ran away down the interstate. Police arrived, found and arrested other driver. He had a felony warrant out on him with the warning "assumed to be armed and dangerous". As I was standing next to my car his friends started to accuse me of causing the wreck and acting like they wanted to attempt to do some "street justice" on me. I immediately turned and walked back to the police officer's car to wait for the wrecker. If they wanted to start some shit let them come and do it in front of the officer. I told the officer why I wanted to wait next to him. (I had already informed them that I had a CHL and was armed.) The absolute last thing I wanted was any kind of fight, especially one that would lead to shooting.

[Starboard Tack]

31. You are right, it is a huge responsibility and

it sounds to me like you did the smart thing. I hope all are as responsible and smart, but I doubt it based on some of the posts I've read in this forum. One of your fellow Texans claimed he pulled one of his many weapons on some youths who were furtively eyeing his tools. Of course they disappeared real fast and he was happy with the result. But it could have ended very differently if they had called his bluff. Tough call. One I'd prefer not to have to make. You, on the other hand, did not pull your weapon. You advised the "friends" that you were armed and you repositioned yourself to stand by the patrol car. I'm sure you must have given thought, in retrospect, as to how differently things may have turned out.
We all make choices in life and right or wrong we have to live with them. Good luck and stay safe. We need every Democrat.