Guns Save Lives

[cleanhippie]

Guns save lives


I find it fascinating that in two columns by Bob Herbert of the NY Times and one by the editor of the Hutchinson News, the writers can only come to one conclusion in the face of several public mass shootings in the US: more gun control. It is useful to consider the phrase "first responders." In recent years it has come to refer to the first government employees who respond to an incident and who assist as best they can when they arrive at the scene. Actually, the first responders are those at the scene of an incident when it starts. I find it troubling that my fellow Hokie, Colin Goddard, a victim in the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting, has been so conditioned by the society he grew up in that he knows not only that he should not be armed but the only thing he can or should try to do in the face of a deadly threat is dial 911 and hide. That was the campus policy that day (it still is), and 32 were killed and 17 injured by the shooter. Surely there is a more effective way to deal with an active shooting. Mass non-family shootings overwhelmingly occur in designated gun free zones. (emphasis mine)

http://www.hutchnews.com/Westernfront/wf-Flood-James1-24


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Not a fan of the title, too inflammatory, but hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion, right?

He really doesn't say anything that hasn't already been said, and it continues to fall on deaf ears.

[onehandle]

1. Guns Take Lives

All guns start out legal and as a whole, take more lives than they save.

Now call me an 'anti.'

[cleanhippie]

2. You are entitled to your opinion

And I don't need to sink to your level and call you anything. You are what you advertise yourself to be.

QED

[PavePusher]

4. Let's see.....

some 10-12K firearms homocides per year and, IIRC 108K documented uses of firearms in self-defense per year (DOJ number).

Your math is Teh Fale.

[wellst0nev0ter]

19. So You Compare The Number Of People Firing Guns

apparently in self-defense, with the number of shootings that result in homicides? Leaving out the shootings that don't result in homicides?

That's some pretty phail stat massaging there.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. OK. I can't recall a "pro" post from you. N/T

[VoteProgressive]

10. I agree 100%.......

They do kill more than they save. The issue now is that there is no way to get rid of them at this point so the good guys might as well have them.

[The Doctor.]

18. Actually, they don't.

By the most reasonable conservative estimates, there are over 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Studies with airtight methodology have put it over a million.

I'd almost like to see what effect a gun ban would have in the US.

[applegrove]

17. +100

[HERVEPA]

3. War is Peace

[spin]

15. At times some in government who oppose firearms do remind me of the ruling oligarchy in 1984 ...

Such authoritarian figures love to disarm those people in the lower classes to ensure the continued rule of those in power.

As Chairman Mao said, "All power comes from the barrel of a gun." He was a fond believer in making sure that "those people" did not own firearms. ...his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

One of our founding fathers, George Mason, said, "To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..."

Patrick Henry commented, "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."

Obviously our founding fathers had a far different view of government than most other nations then or now.

It's impossible to say for sure, but two of the reasons that our nation has the longest lasting Constitution in the world are the First and Second Amendments in the Bill of Rights (in that order). Our founding fathers placed far more trust in the average citizen than the existing governments at that time and even the current governments in most nations today.

[MineralMan]

5. Yup. One jumped into the river and saved my brother Bubba

from drowning. Yessir.

[cleanhippie]

6. You have a brother named Bubba?

[MineralMan]

7. Hell, everyone's brother is named Bubba, I think.

"I say, I say, it's a joke, son...a joke." - Foghorn Leghorn

[spin]

8. We tried more gun control as a solution. It failed.

Then we loosened the laws and allowed licensed citizens to carry firearms concealed and improved and implemented new Castle Doctrine laws which allow people a better chance to legally defend themselves.

The violent crime rate plunged. It difficult to say that looser gun control laws caused this drop, but it is obvious that the RKBA favorable laws DID NOT cause the violent crime rate to increase.

The national decrease in murder began about two decades ago. In 1991, the national homicide rate hit 9.8 per 100,000 inhabitants, prompting forecasts of permanently rising street violence -- then fell to 5.7 in 1999. Many wondered whether this "Great Crime Decline" could be sustained for another 10 years. The answer would appear to be yes: By 2008, the murder rate had drifted down to 5.4 per 100,000, the lowest level since 1965. And given the preliminary figures, the rate for 2009 should be lower still. Indeed, if present trends continue, America will experience a degree of public safety not known since the 1950s.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010101829.html

Preliminary Semiannual Uniform Crime Report, January-June, 2010

Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 6.2 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention for the first 6 months of 2010 when compared with figures reported for the same time in 2009. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The number of property crimes in the United States from January to June of 2010 decreased 2.8 percent when compared with data from the same time period in 2009. Property crimes include burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Arson is also a property crime, but data for arson are not included in property crime totals. Figures for 2010 indicate that arson decreased 14.6 percent when compared to 2009 figures from the same time period.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/preliminary-crime-in-the-us-2009

The violent crime rate of the United States, 1960 to 2005






Notice how the violent crime rate peaked just as "shall issue" concealed carry started to sweep across the nation and fell as more and more states made it legal.

[VoteProgressive]

11. I am not 100% sure the stats prove CCW lowered the crime rate.....

But I am 100% sure it did not increase the crime rate.

And as long as the crooks have guns, we deserve them.

[spin]

14. Nor am I but it's obvious that CCW did not cause the crime rate to increase ...

The violent crime rate peaked in the 90s just as "shall issue" concealed carry gained favor in state after state. If the crime rate would have dramatically leaped in the states that had passed it and the predictions that those states would turn into the "Wild West" came true, those who oppose concealed carry would have solid evidence to base their feelings on.

If more guns caused more crime than the violent crime rate would have increased after Obama as elected and firearms AND ammunition flew off the shelves.

Gun Owners Buy 14 Million Plus Guns In 2009 – More Than 21 of the Worlds Standing Armies

USA Gun Owners Buy 14 Million Plus Guns In 2009 – More Than 21 of the Worlds Standing Armies Combined
That is 14,033,824,000 billion+ rounds of Ammo..you think that is why we have an Ammo shortage?

Washington, DC --(AmmoLand.com)- Data released by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) for the year reported 14,033,824 NICS Checks for the year of 2009, a 10 percent increase in gun purchases from the 12,709,023 reported in 2008.

So far that is roughly 14,000,000+ guns bought last year!
The total is probably more as many NICS background checks cover the purchase of more than one gun at a time by individuals.

To put it in perspective that is more guns than the combined active armies of the top 21 countries in the world.

***snip***

14,033,824,000 billions rounds of Ammo
Assuming each gun buyer bought 1000 rounds of ammo for each purchase, and you and I know that it is way, way more than that, that would be easily 14,033,824,000+ billions rounds of ammo fired by USA gun owners.
14,033,824,000 billions rounds of Ammo
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/13/gun-owners-buy-14-million-plus-guns-in-2009/

The ammo estimate might be inflated as a regular shooter might shoot more than 1000 rounds through a new firearm in a year but many buyers will never shoot that many rounds in their lifetime. Still there was a serious shortage of ammo in 2009.

We can still work to reduce violent crime to an even lower level. But in my opinion and the opinion of many other Americans, disarming honest responsible gun owners is not the way to go.

Many factors contributed to the decrease in crime. More proactive police work might be the largest factor. It is also possible that criminals decided to more toward committing less violent crime as the word was passed on the street that more people had firearms and concealed weapons permits. Criminals fear armed victims far more than police. They generally avoid picking a cop as a victim because they know he is armed. A citizen who is legally carrying concealed is an entirely different matter. A person who looks like an easy target may whip out a handgun and ruin a criminals day.

[VoteProgressive]

16. I 100% agree. The proof is CCW does not cause any issues and probably prevents many! nt

[rl6214]

12. And this is the thing

" In recent years it has come to refer to the first government employees who respond to an incident and who assist as best they can when they arrive at the scene. Actually, the first responders are those at the scene of an incident when it starts."

Most police depts have a 'Serve and Protect' motto but don't do much serving and definately don't do any protecting. They show up after the crime has been committed, take photos and gather evidence then write a report.

[DWC]

13. The first person

at the scene that can respond to an emergency IS the "first responder". The actual "first responder" is seldom designated professional emergency response personnel.

I was the "first responder" to an auto accident where, armed with 1st aid training, I was was able to stop a critically injured victim from bleeding out before the ambulance arrived.

I was the "first responder" to a car jacking where, armed with a handgun, I was able to stop three criminals without firing a shot.

I hope for the best (my personal right) but plan and am prepared for the worst (my personal responsibility).

Semper Fi,