Sheriff: Teen pistol-whipped mom to buy her a car

[jpak]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/03/28/national/a170915D85.DTL&tsp=1

Authorities in southwest Florida say a 17-year-old girl pointed a gun at her mother, pistol-whipped her and forced her to drive to a dealership to buy her a used car.

The sheriff's office in Lee County said Monday that the teen has been charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill, among other counts, and was being held at a juvenile detention center. The Associated Press doesn't identify minors charged with juvenile crimes.

According to officials, the mother said she didn't want to press charges because her daughter had been accepted to several Ivy League schools.

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and GOP/NRA morans want teenagers to bring guns to school in their cars.

the stoopid

the stoopid

yup

[Poll_Blind]

1. It takes years of careful cultivation to produce a teenager like that.

PB

[one-eyed fat man]

16. You pegged that one!

"According to officials, the mother said she didn't want to press charges because her daughter had been accepted to several Ivy League schools."

That brain dead bimbo ought to have her picture in the dictionary next to "enabler." Mom raised that sociopath, no doubt earnestly believing imposing standards and discipline would stifle little precious.

[WatsonT]

50. Nonsense, the gun did it

she was a perfect child until that point.

[Ezlivin]

2. Fail!

She should have gotten a NEW car.

Hell, I could have gotten a used car out of my parents with only a knife and some brief physical violence.

Sheesh. The kids nowadays....

[JohnnyRingo]

6. Hahahahaha.... Funniest thing I've heard all week.

She must have learned her diplomacy skills from John Bolton.

[rl6214]

8. LOL

That's a good one.

[WatsonT]

49. Well in this economy the exchange rate isn't what it used to be

I had to maim a guy just to get a pair of sneakers.

[Demoiselle]

3. The girl's name is already all over the internets...

Even though the AP source on this article says it doesn't name minor offenders (Is 17 still "minor?", )the first Fort Myers reports named her . I imagine her Ivy League dreams are probably kaput.
What a terrible sad story. I hope she and her mother both get help.

[Hangingon]

4. I thought Ivy League schools screened applicants carefully.

[rrneck]

5. A budding career

as a captain of industry frittered away.

She would have made a helluva CEO.

[rl6214]

7. You are being dishonest again

"and GOP/NRA morans want teenagers to bring guns to school in their cars"

First the GOP/NRA SHTICK
Second, no one has EVER said they want teenagers to bring guns to school

I'm sure you can find something to cite for this one, right?

Third, when she is prosecuted and proven guilty then repost this,

you know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

[jpak]

9. GOP/NRA morans in Montana proposed to allow high school student to have guns in their cars

at school

yup


I posted it here and got the usual shtick/spam "I brought guns to school when I was a kid" BS in response

yup

yup

[lawodevolution]

10. No you didn't. Put up a link.

[tortoise1956]

11. So?

When I was a teenager, I remember on a couple of occasions my friends bringing their rifles to school in their cars so we could go plinking after school. Funny thing - none of us turned into serial killers, although I have to admit that at least one of them ended up running for political office. I guess that's not much different...

[Starboard Tack]

19. Most of us did some crazy shit when we were young and survived OK

That's the way of the world. Still don't make it right, just because we got away with it.

[NewMoonTherian]

14. I didn't see that post, but you're right.

I certainly do want teens to be allowed to have guns in their locked vehicles on school property. Not handguns, mind you, but long guns. I would at least like to see it left to the school's discretion, rather than being subject to a blanket state or federal ban. Rural schools should have no problem with the practice. Then again, I can't see a legitimate reason to forbid knives in school either.

[ileus]

17. we used to hunt all the time after school....totally normal.

[DissedByBush]

24. I could bring a gun INTO school

And this was just the 80s.

All I needed was permission.

Anybody having a gun in his car wasn't a problem, it was assumed he probably hunted before school or intended to do it after.

[Riftaxe]

29. Every November Back in high school

during hunting season when students were allowed to have their firearms in their car it lead to mass killings, the number of murders even approached an all time high of 0.

I think the main problem was they lacked your murderous intent, since it has become apparent that you only speak for yourself. We can just safely replace the 'they' with 'I' in your posts.

[Starboard Tack]

18. "no one has EVER said they want teenagers to bring guns to school"

Not true. Heard it right here. Some here think CCW permits should be available to 18 year olds for on campus carry. If you disagree, I'd love to know why.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. "Some here think CCW permits should be available to 18 year olds for on campus carry."

Citation, please...

[friendly_iconoclast]

45. And no citation to back up that statement. Color me unsurprised. n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

51. Eighteen year olds

in both Maine and Indiana can obtain a concealed carry permits under state laws. It has not apparently been much of a problem except in the minds of those with perennially twist knickers.

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/news/articles/2010SarahIrish.htm

Here is a college student, who at age 17, became the youngest shooter to achieve Master Class. She is a a nationally ranked competitor and competes head to head against the best, regardless of age or gender. There are still colleges with competitive shooting programs.

[right2bfree]

12. NRA: Nuts, Rightwingers and ###holes! Unfreaking believable!! nt

[rl6214]

20. Very productive

[GreenStormCloud]

13. How is taking my guns away going to help that situation. It won't.

I refuse to allow my gun rights to be taken away.

[Starboard Tack]

21. OMG it's OK. Relax! Nobody is going to touch your guns

Not every post is about you and your guns.

[GreenStormCloud]

22. All of jpak's posts are anti-gun rights. N/T

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. at least, all of them in this forum. n/t

[Starboard Tack]

25. That's OK. All yours are pro-gun rights

You both appear to be absolutists, which is not conducive to civil discourse and especially not effective in changing anyone's mind about gun rights/restrictions.
I'll say one thing though, if I had to choose which world I'd prefer to live in, yours or his, I'd take his any day. Doesn't make you a bad guy, but you do sound a little over the top.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. But I use facts, statistics and reason.

He uses emotinalism, snark and deceit. His gun free would would be a nightmare as it would be ruled by the ones with the biggest muscles. It is guns that have given the weaker people the ability to defend themselves against those stronger than themselves. Until guns all societies were ruled by the warrior class. It was guns that brought them down.

My views are about mainline for the RKBA community. I realize that they make you clutch your pearls.

[Starboard Tack]

27. I don't know what you mean by "clutch your pearls" but I can imagine

and will not interpret it as being "emotional or snark". I do not speak for jpak, but I disagree with you about guns being the equalizer of civilization. Guns don't solve society's problems, but rather contribute to them. You don't eliminate bullying by becoming the new bully. We need to concentrate on more effective and positive ways to eliminate oppression of the physically weak. Like education, parenting, psychological and spiritual growth. The RKBA community does not appear to embrace any of these ways. I perceive an underlying thread of insecurity and the carrying of guns as a form of self medicating.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Violence in self-defense is legitimate.

This is one of my profound disagreements with you. From that basic disagreement flow all the other disagreements. You seem to view self-defense violence as being just as evil as agressive violence. If you will look at history you will find that Mao was right. Political power does flow from the barrel of a gun. Prior to guns that power was held by the warrior class, knights in Europe, samurai in Japan and so on. It took years to train a knight or a samurai, but with guns a serf could be trained in a couple of days to kill a knight or samurai at distance. The power base changed from the feudal lord. Japan responded with brutal gun control, as did many other countries because the lords didn't want to give up power. At the time of the American Revolution that history wan't so far removed as it is now. So we have the 2A to ensure that final power is held in the hands of the people. Although the idea of a modern revolution is somewhat debatable due to a modern government's ability to monitor individual's communications and disrupt the organization of a resistance.

No matter how many classes you send people to there are always going to be some who will be violent criminals. They will prey upon those weaker than themselves. That is a fact of life, a basic reality. To deny that is an ultimate in being naive. Some people can only be stopped by violence or the threat of violence.

I am a senior citizen with a slight disability. I can't outrun a young man nor can I out fight him. So I would bbe at the tender mercies of any violent felon, as would my wife. Our guns change that. We don't go around waving them or showing them off. They are like a cat's claws, hidden but there instantly if needed. Like a cat we will avoid danger if we can, but if we can't then the guns are there if needed - instantly. (As I type this my cat is in my lap purring.)

My wife has twice, both times about five years ago, needed her gun to defend herself against street crime. Both time the attacker aborted the attack and ran away. For the next three years there were no incidents. We suspect the the word got out on the street that attacking her was dangerous.

"Clutch your pearls" means to overreact with needless worry to something that presents no threat. You are hostile to concealed carry even thought it is easy to demonstrate that you are over 30 times more likely to be struck by lightning than to be illegally shot and killed by a CCWer. If you fear people with CCWs then you should really be horrified of a thunderstorm.

[Starboard Tack]

30. Wrong again my friend. I believe that violence in self-defense

is legitimate. Proportionate violence. We may disagree on what is proportionate. I would argue that it should be enough to protect oneself (and possibly others) from personal injury.
I also agree that there will always be violent people, some of them criminals, in this world. You say they can ONLY be stopped by violence or threat of violence. We all have different experiences in life that mold us. I am also a senior. I have lived in several different countries and half a dozen states. I am not naive and I have a background in law enforcement. I don't blame you or your wife for wanting to be armed, especially considering her past experiences. Maybe I've been fortunate and maybe you've been drawing short straws. I don't know and I don't pretend to have the answers. You say your wife may have gained a reputation as someone to avoid, with criminal intent, that is. Reminds me of a lady I knew 30 years ago in NYC. She was blind from birth, very independent, did not consider herself handicapped and wanted nothing to do with the Association For The Blind. Well, one day I was visiting her apartment and the doorman told me she had been attacked on the street (about one block from Times Square) by three young guys. They tried to grab her purse. She beat the crap out of all 3 with her cane as they all yelled "You're not blind! You're a phony!". She gained that same kind of reputation and one hell of a lot of respect. You see, we adjust to our environment if we want to live peacefully. We don't have to adopt the tools of destruction as a way of life. You say you have a slight disability and use that as justification to arm yourself. She never even thought she was disabled and apparently she was right. Maybe your disability is greater.
This is where our differences lie. I believe the individual can rise above the fear of the unknown and find the strength to deal with life as it happens.
On the pearl clutching I think you may be projecting somewhat. I never think about lightning unless I'm near trees or sailing in a storm. I never think about guns except when talking to you guys in this forum.

[GreenStormCloud]

31. In previous posts you have conflated self-defense with vigilantism.

Proportionate violence does follow a continum of force. But one the agressor has reached the point where he is threatening me with death or severe bodily harm I am not under any moral obligation to attempt to match force levels. I can go straight to guns. Like the cat my claws are sheathed and will only come out under severe threat. But I refuse to be declawed. In your posts you push for mandatory declawing, claiming that we make you uncomfortable.

I am a realist. I know that I can't outfight a young male street criminal, especially if he has a knife or club. So my gun and training gives me the advantage. Of course my first recourse is to avoid such situations or to attempt to defuse them.

"Rise above the fear" is a nice sounding platitude that really means, "be an easy victim". I refuse to be an easy victim.

[Starboard Tack]

32. "Rise above the fear" is not meant as a platitude

I can only assume that at some point you have been victimized. Have you really encountered thugs with clubs and knives? My God. That's incredible. I'll be in Texas in a few weeks. I'll be looking out for those guys. And I'll be in a hybrid car to boot. Maybe we should change plans and head to Somalia instead. Just kidding.
BTW, are you familiar with Karpman's Drama Triangle?

[GreenStormCloud]

33. A wise man learns from the experience of others.

So now you resort to sarcasm instead of genuine debate.

I am not so stupid that I have to be personally hit on the head to realize that violent crime exists. I have seen others after they have been assaulted and learned from them that it can really happen. I have no wish to share their experience. You sound like someone who believes that crime doesn't exist unless it happens to you.

I read all Eric Berne's books when they first came out as well as some other TA books. The Texas CHL course teaches TA in the conflict avoidance and deesclation part of the course. I refuse to accept the victim role and have no interest in expending my resources rescuing or prosecuting anyone. Sounds like you may be doing some projecting.

[Starboard Tack]

35. Sounds like you may need a TA refresher

You demonstrate classic passivity, manifested by over adaptation and grandiosity.
You have several gun safes full of guns and another gun on the night table, and two huge dogs.
You cite your fear of young people with big muscles who carry clubs and knives and now you feel victimized by sarcasm. Definitely no sign of being the victim there (oops! gotta watch the sarcasm). You come on this forum and spout your pro-gun rhetoric in order to rescue the rest of us from our ignorance and naivety and when you don't like how we respond I bet you complain.
If you really had studied TA you would know that the goals are AUTONOMY and SOCIAL CONTROL. You demonstrate neither.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. No dogs, just one small cat.

No gun safes either. Nor do I have that many guns. Obviously you seem to believe that violent crime doesn't exist.

[Starboard Tack]

39. My sincerest apologies. I had you confused with "oneshooter".

Totally inexcusable. Shame on me. Won't happen again. Must've been having a senior moment. Just as well I don't carry. I'd probably shoot the wrong guy.
I am very aware that violent crime exists. I've spent a good deal of time dealing with how to prevent it without resorting to violence or threats of violence. I don't want to take anyone's gun away. I just want folk to consider other options and potential consequences of carrying one around other people.

[oneshooter]

40. Strange that, this is my only post on this subject.

You really must get your specs updated.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Starboard Tack]

41. No shit. Maybe my brain cells too. My bad

Must've thought I was in a penguin colony, which I guess is OK if you're a penguin.

[GreenStormCloud]

42. Street criminals don't respond to Kumbaya.

I am a retired Private Investigator. I have mentioned that before. So I have some familiarity with criminals. However, a PI doesn't deal with street crime much. Mostly we deal with stealthy type crimes such as insurance fraud, embezzlement, or non-crimes such as cheating spouses, etc. Street criminals are at the bottom of the criminal's class system. Avoidance is the best way to be safe, but sometimes one can't avoid a situation. If one is confronted with a violent situation you have to be prepared to answer with greater violence or be a victim.

May I suggest a couple of books to you?
The Gift of Fear and Other Survival Signals that Protect Us From Violence by Gavin de Becker
Inside the Criminal Mind: Revised and Updated Edition by Stanton E. Samenow

[Starboard Tack]

47. As a former cop and insurance investigator

I think I can relate. I have hadplenty of familiarity with criminals of all stripes. Retired now. Loving life.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. Why do you fear an armed citizen so greatly?

Please answer without snark. The question is serious. You obviously are terrified of armed citizens although statistics easily show that they are no danger to you. You say that you are soon coming to Texas. Be aware that over 460,000 of us in the state have CHLs. Anytime you are out in public there will be some around you who are discreetly legally armed.

[Starboard Tack]

46. When did I ever say or intimate that I fear armed citizens?

Because I do not. My thoughts on the subject are philosophical. If I felt fear I would carry my own gun, but having spent a lot of time in Texas over the years, I've never felt the slightest need. I love the state and the people and have many dear friends there and from there of all political persuasions.

[rrneck]

36. If he encounters them will you be there to help?

And if you are, will the whistling ripostes of your rapier wit and blistering sanctimony be enough to win the day?

[Union Scribe]

15. Ivy League schools!

Not a funny story, but for some reason that felt like a punchline to me.

[Taitertots]

34. That is a problem caused by bad parenting and not gun laws

Lets come together to stop bad parents through regulation, education, and community outreach. It is certain to lower crime and make society better off.

[krispos42]

44. Non sequitur

I get the feeling if you had typed a few more paragraphs, your OP would have ended with a rant about homeless unicorns, the director's cut of Howard the Duck and the infield-fly rule.

[WatsonT]

48. You can tell that if it weren't for the evil power of the gun that kid could have grown up

to be president or cure cancer.

I mean clearly she was a sweet and wonderful girl, well disciplined and properly raised until that gun got it's tentacles in to her brain and turned her in to a monster.